cruelty to children?

Jesus, what in the hell is this world coming to?!!

I don't see it as the world coming to anything in particular.

A lot of 16 year old boys don't use the brain God gave them.

Talk about poor impulse control

I'm sure if the day before you had described this very situation to the teens involved and asked for their serious opinion, they would have said that could have injured the baby. You'd especially get that answer if they were asked separately, and by an adult to whom they felt obligated to give a thoughtful reply.

I'll just bet that at the moment, it seemed like a totally cool idea to grab the camera and go at it.

Not at all to say they shouldn't be held accountable.

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That baby looks awfully small for 8 months, and fragile.

I'll say it....stupid kid.

however, I'm certain he had no forethought of what would happen.

Every mothers nightmare?

I'd think the father of that baby wasn't too happy either.

No, it's worse than that. I don't know anybody of any age who would throw a baby across the room. There are teens who swarm people at bus stops and rob and beat them. Not to mention 'kerbing' - there just seems to be so much more violence among teens today. Every day there's something on the news about teen violence. Here, anyway.

It's sickening.

What the f*ck!!!!!

That poor baby.

I wonder if the 16 year old even thought about the baby being launched forward instead of straight up and back onto the pillow. I would like to hope he possibly thought that and just didn't think about the other possibilities.

no, I'm pretty sure he didn't have a freaking clue as to what would happen.

reading over my posts from before, maybe it sounds like I'm not that concerned, or upset.

Not true. I'm shaking my head and thinking the kid should be thankful he's not my son. Watching that poor baby broke my heart, and made me think of the rage the parents felt when they witnessed this, and their feelings of impotence knowing they couldn't reach back through time and stop it.

I'm saying this from the perspective of someone with no kids, and with the belief if I had one I would have sent him/her off to boarding school as soon as possible.

Teenagers especially around the age of 15 or 16 are total animals. I don't mean some specific teens, but in general they have no more sense on what to do in a given situation than an irish setter. And that might not be giving the irish setter enough credit.

just remembered this now....about an hour ago I had to go out to run an errand. I was in a lane that made a U-turn under a highway. I'm coming around, probably about 40 mph, which would be totally normal speed there, and suddenly there's some kid that looked right around 15 standing on the curb, and kinda putting his foot forward like he's gonna cross in front of me. It's hard to describe the logistics, but literally a second before I saw him, my car was at this angle where he was not at all visible. If an engineering had to plot the area and pick the absolute worse place for a human being to stand, it would have been right there. In addition, this particular u-turn area was someplace where a rational human being would never choose to go to in the first place.....so, of course that's why this 15 year old boy was happily walking around there. I mean, this wasn't even a place you would expect to see drunks or something hanging out. Anyway, he sort of puts his foot out, like my car 15 feet away from him was going to by pass him through a worm hole, then he stops and looks at me and smiles. Wasn't one of those sarcastic "Ha, thought I was gonna step in front of you, ya freaking adult...you're so freaking stupid and old, like, you're old enough to drive you're so old" No, the smile was like "nice day, huh?"

not....a....clue....

If I had hit him, no one would have been more surprised than him.

This kid launching the baby? I think he was the same way. If the baby had been hurt, he would have been totally at a loss to explain why he did what he did. Even with the baby not being hurt, when he was asked why, I'm sure he didn't have an answer....uh...I dunno...like, we just did it.

When the baby cried? I don't think he really absorbed that it meant something happened the baby didn't like.

I read a story on Sunday about a newborn baby being drowned in a toilet by a 15 or 16 year old girl, at her school. We've all heard of these horrible things. The 15 year old....was she evil? More likely she had the baby and just didn't know what to do, so she left it where it fell out of her and walked away. Her plan was no more sophisticated than she hoped she would make it through the next 2 classes, then go home.

Oh Chai...that is horrible...I hadn't seen the video until just now but that looks to be about a 9 month old baby...and I hate to say it but the 16 year old had to have known he hurt the baby, even if he gave no thought to what was about to happen - the baby was screaming...my 8 year olds know when they have hurt their 5 year old brother when he is screaming like that...I heard someone snickering even - now I know some kids are just not very empathetic - but yikes.

That video makes me nauseous. I can guarantee you those parents won't be leaving that baby at home with their 16 year old boy anymore.

I did not watch - just what you all described makes me feel ill.

Mismi is right, teenagers do have the capability to know better. Young children do as well. My five year old is around alot of toddlers and babies and she knows to be gentle to them and understands would understand that launching a baby in the air would not be a good thing.

If a 5 year old knows this, a teenager should as well. I agree that teenagers in general have a different mindset. They tend to want to do crazy things - I would imagine if we all thought back to that age we could all come up with some crazy things we did - even those of us that were considered "good kids". It is sort of a testing age.

But it is a testing thing to launch a baby through the air. It is plain cruelty. Most likely the did think of the consequences to the baby or themselves afterwards. I think it was mean teens trying to be "cool".

Like linkat, I did not watch that video. Why would anyone watch that video.

There is a program in place in schools in Toronto called Roots of Empathy. A brave mother takes her baby into a classroom along with a trained instructor over a period of time. The children learn to identify with the baby's helplessness and vulnerability and apply that to their own interactions on the playground (standing up to bullies, supporting victims etc). Here is a link to a review of a book about the subject; it's not long and the story of "Darren" is worth it: LINK

I don't know what I was expecting - but I will say this, It has made me that much more determined tp teach empathy to my boys.

I have heard that having animals helps a lot with that. I believe that is true. When the twins were 2 or 3 they were horrible with my kitty. He didn't like them anyway and when they would pet him, they would stick their finger in his eye and well...poor kitty...but I taught them what gentleness was and how to handle him...how to pet and care for him.. He sleeps with them as much as he does with me now. So gentleness and empathy can be taught. I always ask them "how would you feel"? I get a lot of shrugging...but I think it won't be long before they are able to put themselves in someone elses place.

I think it is a good thing having the school Tai Chi. That is an interesting article. It makes you wonder if it has something to do with the fact that so many kids in the past generation or 2 have been latch key kids. I know people do what they have to...not condemning anyone here, but I wonder if the independence these kids find in caring for themselves so much of the time has also made them less empathetic...a little harder emotionally. I don't know. Interesting though.

I agree Linkat - after watching the video...it looks like he was being cruel. There is definitely a disconnect there between what will be fun and what will be just plain mean...those two should not go together...ever.

Chai...I think that kids do make bad choices, just like the kid crossing in the wrong place. And maybe the kid is a little amazed at what he did. Maybe he is horrified, now that he got caught and it will teach him to think before he tries something stupid like that...

You might laugh at this...but I remember the first time I actually realized I was being mean...and it was to an ant. I had to be around 7 or 8 years old. There was an ant crawling and I took my index finger and smeared his little body across the wall...and I realized all of a sudden that I had wiped him out of existence...literally. I remember distinctly feeling that I had done something horrible by killing that little ant for no reason.

Most kids surely come to this point where they think beyond themselves and if they don't, there is a problem.

That sounds like a great program.

One thing we do with our children is discuss that it is ok to go against the crowd. My daughter will tell us how one child is mean to another and she sorts of "leads" the other girls to leave one girl out or similar boys don't like one or two other boys and tease them. I tell her it is ok and she should let this person know it isn't right - sort of sticking up for those that are being picked on.

I don't think it is funny mismi - I tell my kids all the time when they stomp on an ant outside for no reason other than it seems fun, how cruel it is. Why would you do that? He isn't doing anything to you and I start talking about the ant's family and crap.

I even once scolded a guy friend of mine when he stomped on bug once. I said why did you do that -its cruel. He said so what it is just a big dumb bug. So I said, so if a giant came out and stomped on I would say, so what he's just a big dumb guy.

He didn't appreciate my comment much.

mmm hmmm....I've said that to adults too.

well, not the "how would you feel if" but I'll say "but that was a living thing, just like you or I. Even though it doesn't have a thought process doesn't mean it didn't have the right to be alive."

Parents, educate me about something....

I've heard you say "even my 5/8 year old has empathy towards....."

I believe that. However, it seems to me there is just some time bomb that goes off in the heads of the 15 yr old that can totally negate any good upbringing he's had.

When you have an 8 year old, doesn't what Mom or Dad say have a lot more importance to him at that age, than when he is 15?

Using my 4 1/2 yr old friend R as an example...she lives 1 house down from me, we are the house she's supposed to run to if there was ever a problem, in other words, she knows and trusts me.

The other day, I was working outside, and she came outdoors. I called over "Hey R. come over here, I want to show you something really neat."

She looked over at me, then looked up at her house, because she knows she's not supposed to leave her front yard because "My Mom said so" I realized that and just took whatever it was over to her. I don't know how many years that's going to last. Seems to me a lot of 15 year olds think their parents are totally dumber than dirt. I know I did, and I know a lot of you did.

My step-daughter was a really bright 8, 9, 10 year old.....but there was 1 or 2 years where she went through the "I dunnno" "doesn't matter to me" phase that was very difficult...and this was a really good kid.

A 15 year old has a lot more on their mind than a kid. You may teach them not to go with the crowd, but that doesn't mean they don't feel the pressure.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think some 8 or 9 year olds have a lot more empathy and thoughtfulness than they will in 6 or 7 years.....then, after a certain age, they get it back again, and more.

How many times have parents thought "You used to be such a good kid, now you're driving me crazy!" Then, in another 6 or 10 years, you're thinking what a good adult they are.

I don't know, I just haven't heard anything that changes my feelings that this 16 year launched the baby without realizing this was a really bad life choice. Asked today, he would not be able to tell you what was running through his mind.

Again, that doesn't take him off the hook for the behavior.

Well, I don't think it's a correct assumption that majority or even some teenagers become "stupid" when they hit their mid-teens. Maybe a few do, but I don't think it's stupidity. I think this kid (and I couldn't bear to watch the video) is more than brain-dead. So, tarring all or even most teenagers with the "they get stupid at this age" is so unfair.

How many people here, for example, would have thrown a baby across the room at that age?

How many people here even personally know a teenager who had or would have done that?

Likely, nobody. We do learn right from wrong and there is no possible way that that action could be construed as okay, never mind right. He knew what he was doing, IMO, and just didn't give a ****.

I think some people are just born that way and some learn it in their environment. I hate to think of what he'll be like as an adult. Maybe he'd be the guy that would stomp his baby to death.

He's sick. And unless he has a mental health issue, there's no excuse for him whatsoever.

I see your point Chai. I do think that kids trust and do what their parents say much more at a younger age than when they are older...but as Mame said...that's not every kid. Some kids seem to be more mature than other kids. Some seem to have better thought processes than others. It is up to the parent to know and understand this and give freedom to the child as freedom is earned. In other words by the parent being able to trust the child to behave as they should, even when the parent is not around.

I am trying to instill this into my boys now...freedom for them means I have to be able to trust them. When they break that trust, some of their freedoms (to go spend the night at someone's house, to walk across the street on their own, etc) are taken away.

I had a friend who had a little girl and I commented on how smart she was one time. His reply was, "I don't know...I use to think so, but I see some regression that is disturbing". He was kidding mostly but he did say she was making some bad decisions she had no problem with previously. She was around 13 years old. I do believe some of it is just good old fashioned teenage rebellion...or what I see as trying to become independent.

As far as this boy hurting the baby...well...I hope being arrested and charged has taught him to think before he acts. Whether he was just being mean or not.

I dont know that I would call it stupidity either.. but what CAn you call it?

it is the desire to ACT that negates the ability to think about something.
Thats all it is.
As a teenager everything has to happen right away. It is almost like having a new baby again. THere is no real strong sense of reward beyond "what can happen right now for -me-" . I gotta have it now. now . now.

That kind of thinking happens twice in our life. One when we are newborn and again when we hit about.. 12... Our eyes glaze over and we chase shiny stuff for 6 years..

I think part of it with teenagers is they are testing things. They are at an age when they are growing and wanting independence, but yet they haven't experienced much of the adult world in a sense - the same responsibilities, etc. Sometimes there is a group dynamic as well. They want to be "cool" and fit in with their friends. If there friends are doing it and they seem happy and cool, they hey I want to also.

I can remember once thinking this way. I was the type that usually believed what adults told me - I was terrified of drugs because of what my parents, teachers and police visiting the school said. Then I realized one day, that I know lots of kids smoking pot. They aren't as these adults stated they would be like. They aren't (at least it looked like it to me) destroying their lives, killing themselves, getting hooked. They're just having fun.

Friends become a very important part of a teenager's life as they grow older. Parents aren't cool, their boring and don't have fun.

I agree with Mame - I may have done some crazy things as teenagers, but I cannot imagine that I would or any of my friends would have launched a baby in the air. I would have done something to possibly harm myself, but not a baby.

Although I could have pointed out some teenagers that might have - although those would have been the exception.