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Fear of a Black President

 
 
shewolfnm
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 08:41 am
Oh boy.

I absolutely agree with you Squinney.
In fact, I could not agree more. And you have a point that I never, ever thought of.

But no, I am not 100% color blind.

I see color when it is.... obvious.

( to steal words out of the mr's mouth)

If I see a kid, with pants down around their ankles, baggy nike shirts, head band.. etc.. and he is BLACK.. I see black.
Same if the kid is WHITE.. I see white. I see "thug" i see ............. a lot of things.. but when it is obvious. Yes. That is the first thing I see and the one thing I see.

If I see someone in a store, dressed as usual, not being rude, or loud, or obnoxious.....I just see another person.

When I see Obama.. oh yes. I see a black man. And I see a black man because he is in a spot that black men have not been in before. But, as I have said before.. it is a one minute , quick shock " Oh my god.. thats a black man" .. and its over.
It isnt something to dwell on for ME at least.


but..
this discussion is taking an interesting curve ball..

Im gonna be quiet and read for a while. Smile
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 10:06 am
squinney wrote:
(I guess we'll see if an open discussion of race is really what we all want.)


It appears that would be a NO... Laughing

Nice try, though.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 10:11 am
squinney wrote:


In McDonalds a couple of weeks ago, just as Obama was getting the nomination, a black woman ordered and recieved her food. Something was wrong and she told the worker that he had overcharged her by 30 cents. He insisted he did not. After an increasingly hostile exchange she asked for the manager. The manager looked over the order and said that actually the worker only charged her for a medium but gave her a large coffee and if they were to ring it up again she would actully owe another 30 cents. In the end the woman called out to the white managers back "You people won't be able to treat us like this after November."


I thought this story sounded familiar!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 10:24 am
yup, the very same incident. squinney was thoughtful about it.... I was amused mightily...
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 10:26 am
I am amused as well. But kind of depressed, that there are people on both sides who really do think that way, all the time.

I suppose it isn't surprising, what with average intelligence and all...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 10:38 am
it is shocking, embarrassing and just out right.. I dont know.. repulsive? to know that people truly believe this.

I dont have blinders on when it comes to people.. but.. that is just. ..

gosh.. I dont really have a word for it..
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 10:39 am
I think colorblind refers to whether or not you put skin color in the hopper when you assess someone before you know them... I may throw it in when they express a belief/opinion that makes me wonder how the hell they got there....you know, history.

Since I found out about the Tuskeegee Experiment, for example, when blacks express what, to me, seems to be outrageously paranoid concerns or charges against the American government, I understand.

Otherwise, it doesn't go in the hopper.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 10:41 am
I wonder if the Catholics thought JFK would do something special for them...?

Maybe it's Pork Barrel- type wishes....like Georgia thinking Carter may give them a leg up somehow...

I wish snood would come back and elucidate...
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 10:43 am
Well, everyone's home-town and tribe thinks they will profit from having leadership in DC that represents them.

It's usually expressed as 'someone who thinks like me!' Even if you don't expect them to outrageously and outright prefer your group, you think they would make the same sorts of decisions that you would make, and in the end, it will benefit ya...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 10:49 am
I guess it's just weird when it's a whole race of people---like they're a monolith. Religion and location are understandable---
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 11:03 am
Lash wrote:
I guess it's just weird when it's a whole race of people---like they're a monolith. Religion and location are understandable---


But not race?

It's as an important part of people's ethos and decision-making as location or religion; and as immaterial from an objective point of view, as well.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 11:04 am
well.. since when did black people have someone, based on skin color alone, to represent them in the presidents office?
Colin Powell? eh. no thanks.

So, what would we expect from asian people if we had an asian president?

Would race be as big of an issue there?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 11:09 am
Lash wrote:
I wonder if the Catholics thought JFK would do something special for them...?

There were definitely people who were concerned about his Catholicism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy

Quote:



Time magazine has an article from 1962:

Quote:
Catholic View of J.F.K.
Friday, Jan. 19, 1962 Article

Has John Fitzgerald Kennedy lived up to the hopes of fellow Catholics during his first year as President? A heavily hedged yes is the answer of the weighty Jesuit magazine America (circ. 53,573). President Kennedy has conducted himself, wrote Father Thurston Davis, S.J., America's editor in chief, "more or less as almost any Catholic President might have been expected to conduct himself in a land largely dominated by a strong residual Protestant tradition."

...

0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 11:10 am
I think it has to do with the discrimination historically experienced. Lash mentions Tuskegee. Slavery. Lynchings.

Asians have their share of discrimination -- and I hate ranking any kind of injustices -- but I think the sheer distance traveled from the worst of the injustice to the highest office in the land is part of what gives this its resonance.

I read a section in "Dreams of My Father" about how affected Obama was by the election of Howard Washington, Chicago's first black mayor, and it was hard not to get really emotional in transposing that to Obama becoming the first black president, and what that would mean to so many people.

It wouldn't immediately erase all of the past injustice; it wouldn't mean that we now live in a perfect, color-blind society. But it would certainly be a "wow" moment.

We've already had several of those, of course. Iowa was the first and probably the biggest so far. If he actually becomes president, though...
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 11:17 am
Setanta wrote:
Diane wrote:
Obama hasn't played the race card . . .


But, increasingly, it seems that that is all Snood does.


ouch
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 11:24 am
Re: Fear of a Black President
I'm sure you knew I'd eventually have to do this-- Very Happy , but I like looking at this thing line by line...
snood wrote:
White people of A2K: Please read and respond as honestly as you can to this blog by a writer named Seth Grahame-Smith…

(Why do the black people have the right to respond with lies? Laughing ) ok, "white people of A2K" just sounded like the first line in a sci fi novel..
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I like being white.
ok
Generally speaking, it's the easiest color in America to be.
I take his word for it.
It's so easy being white that when someone discriminates against me because I'm white, it's called "reverse" racism. My racism has its own special name -- that's how cool it is to be white.
Made me laugh.
I can walk into any store without being followed;
bullshit--look poor and you are followed...He's mixing white privilege with affluent privilege...not the same!!
hail the cab of my choice; and there's not a country club that wouldn't welcome me, so long as I was clad in the requisite slacks and collared shirt.
unless you are a white JEW perhaps!! or again POOR!!
I'm a liberal, college-educated white guy. I think gays should be allowed to marry, I think women deserve equal pay for equal work, and I firmly believe that the more ethnically diverse America becomes, the more perfect and lasting our Union will be.
He obviously DOESN'T BELIEVE THIS either--or he's parodying the type of voter that he has characterized himself to be because he (like snood, it seems) doesn't have faith that people can get over racism. He's trying to preach his message, making himself the scapegoat.
But there's something about the idea of a black president that scares the **** out of me.
?
Until now, the notion of a black chief executive has belonged exclusively to Hollywood. I remember seeing Morgan Freeman in Deep Impact, and thinking what a cool, novel choice it was to cast a black man as the president of the United States. Cool, because it hit my progressive sweet spot. "Yes! That's the way the world should work!" Novel, because the idea seemed impossible. And that was scarcely ten years ago.
It didn't seem impossible to everyone...I still wonder if the writer meant this--or he is projecting his low opinion of "middle America" onto this self-identified narrator.
But the idea is very real now. A black man may well become the leader of the free world. And even for someone who fancies himself a progressive, that's forced me to take a long, hard look at what that would really mean to my white mind.
I think the fact that he identifies his mind as white says a lot. Who wakes up and puts on the mantle of being white in this society? Sorta metaphoric to putting on a hood... This is where he really seems to be trying to spoon-feed psychbabble 101 to the teeming masses. "Let me explain how you're feeling....I just took a sociology course!!! I understand you! Here, take my hand"...haha. I really think the people, like this writer, are struggling with their own race issues, and find it impossible to believe that a lot of people have moved on, and are happy Obama's running--and aren't conflicted about it in the least.
To identify that tiny, obscure part of me that's suddenly afraid, and find out what its problem is.

Here's what I found.
It's been easy believing in equality, because part of me -- the part that's suddenly afraid -- didn't really think we'd ever achieve it.
Sad and telling.
For as long as I can remember, I've felt secure as a white person. Secure in the unspoken belief that no matter how much social progress we made in America -- no matter how many blacks and Latinos graduated Magna Cum Laude or how many trophies Tiger won -- that we'd always be the ruling class from sea to shining sea.
That's disgusting. Someone should have read this for this guy before publishing it. He is just a huge honkin racist--or he tried to write some self-deprecating essay to "open the eyes" of guys like his narrator and got his dick caught in the door...
That belief was so ingrained in my DNA that nothing could shake it loose.
I hate this false, damaging sentiment. It feeds all types of -isms.
Not the first billionaires of color, not the surging growth of the Latino population, not the Congressional Black Caucus...not even Oprah.
For though my better angels usually won the day, and though I was happy with the strides America was making, I was also -- deep down in that DNA -- gratified by the knowledge that mine was still the easiest color in America to be.
Ass.
But a black president? That's different.
A black president means anything is possible.
Yes, it does! Hah!!
It means that that last little parcel of earth -- which for 232 years has been solely inhabited by white men --
excuse me? How old was the guy who wrote this??
is now open to people of all colors.
Eh?
That may seem insignificant. After all, there are black CEOs, black movie stars, black Senators...but the "highest office in the land" is just that.

The problem is, I think there are untold numbers of whites who can't bring themselves to pull the lever for Obama because of that fear -- the fear that a black president somehow takes us white folks down a notch.
Anyone who falsely thought they were actually up a notch...will just get a needed education.

I have friends and family members who support Obama as I do, but who are "certain" he won't win in November for this very reason. They just don't think white America is ready to pull that lever. Ready to put their vote where their mouth is.
At least we see where he gets his racist views...
Some of these hypothetical people
So, he made it all up, right?
are simply racists. People who've let that fear consume them, and who would never vote for a black candidate no matter what. Others are like me -- whites who embrace equality, and who've loved people of all colors with all their hearts, but who (somewhere deep down in that DNA) are afraid of what this brave new world will look like. Of what their place in it will -- or won't -- be.
Is anyone else offended by the DNA talk?
As for me? I don't think we've arrived in a "post-racial" America just yet, but I have faith that more of us white folks are ready to give it a try than ever before.
I guess we'll see how big those better angels have grown.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 11:26 am
"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, not God Bless America. God damn America - that's in the Bible �- for killing innocent people. God damn America, as long as she pretends to act like she is God, and she is supreme. The United States government has failed the vast majority of her citizens of African descent." - Rev. Wright
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 11:34 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Lash wrote:
I guess it's just weird when it's a whole race of people---like they're a monolith. Religion and location are understandable---


But not race?

It's as an important part of people's ethos and decision-making as location or religion; and as immaterial from an objective point of view, as well.

Cycloptichorn

Cyclo--

Only if blacks are a monolithic group with the identical beliefs, opinions, problems etc... The fact that they aren't makes this whole issue really puzzling. How are blacks different than whites as Americans?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 11:40 am
Lash wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Lash wrote:
I guess it's just weird when it's a whole race of people---like they're a monolith. Religion and location are understandable---


But not race?

It's as an important part of people's ethos and decision-making as location or religion; and as immaterial from an objective point of view, as well.

Cycloptichorn

Cyclo--

Only if blacks are a monolithic group with the identical beliefs, opinions, problems etc... The fact that they aren't makes this whole issue really puzzling. How are blacks different than whites as Americans?


People in difficult situations tend to bond together, people given more freedom, to split apart. Though Blacks do not make a monolithic group by any means, there is a certain association and kinship that they feel towards other members of the race that is undoubtedly rooted in a perceived 'shared struggle.'

I think that you will find the same sorts of tribalism anywhere where oppression has been practiced in the past towards a certain people.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 11:41 am
Good rebuttal, Lash. Hated the DNA stuff. And I think this is a particularly good point:

Quote:
bullshit--look poor and you are followed...He's mixing white privilege with affluent privilege...not the same!!


I think both race and class are elements of privilege -- that is, I think if there are two people who are of the same class (same schools, same income levels, etc.) but one is black and one is white, the black one will (still) have more barriers. But I think white people of lower economic classes, particularly, also have significant barriers. (Obama's "More Perfect Union" speech talked about that.)
0 Replies
 
 

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