John McCain has always been a phony & a scumbag; want proof?

*yawn*

politics as usual from a typical liberal windbag.

means "There are way too many facts here for my mind to even begin to contemplate".

One would think that all those who are so eager to tar and feather Obama - to insinuate various things about his morality or lack thereof - would show the same willingness to examine McCain's oath-breaking, and ask themselves: is this one who can be trusted to run the country? Why would he keep promises to the American people, when he cannot do so to his own wife?

Do you bunch not think that this is indicative of moral failings on his part?

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

One would think that all those who are so eager to tar and feather Obama - to insinuate various things about his morality or lack thereof - would show the same willingness to examine McCain's oath-breaking, and ask themselves: is this one who can be trusted to run the country? Why would he keep promises to the American people, when he cannot do so to his own wife?

Do you bunch not think that this is indicative of moral failings on his part?

Cycloptichorn

Who is it you are accusing in such a self-serving fashion here??? Neither Occm Bill nor I have made any personal attacks on the sainted Obama.

It is true the real Obamaniacs tend to see anything less than ecstatic praise as a slander, however, by usual standards there have been no personal attacks on Obama by anyone here.

Do you pretend that this is the only thread on A2K?

I think that several have said that Obama's past choices and associations raise 'legitimate questions' about his ability to serve as president. I merely wonder if those same folks think that McCain's record of oath-breaking also raises legitimate questions.

Cycloptichorn

Thank you, Cycl, then you see that the item you mentioned was wholly peripheral. However to get back to this thread I find the title here appalling, not to say repulsive, and unrelated to documented facts.

Yeah, sure. Interestingly, that scumbag McCain himself refused to participate in the "Swift Boating" of John Kerry. He had too much class for that.

In an attempt to find out exactly what the man did to earn these many hero awards, I asked his Senate office three times to provide copies of the narratives for each medal. I'm still waiting.

I next went to the Pentagon. Within a week, I received a recap of his medals and many of the narratives that give the details of what he did.

None of the awards, less the DFC, were for heroism over the battlefield where he spent no more than 20 hours. Two Naval officers described the awards as "boilerplate" and "part of an SOP medal package given to repatriated (Vietnamera) POWs."

Accounts by McCain and other writers tell of the horror he endured: relentlessly beatings, torture, broken limbs. All inflicted during savage interrogations. Yet no other POW was a witness to these accounts.
A former POW says "No man witnessed another man during interrogations… We relied on each other to tell the truth when a man was returned to his cell."

The U.S. Navy says two eyewitnesses are required for any award of heroism. But for the valor awards McCain received, there are no eyewitnesses, less himself and his captors. And they're not talking.

Let him who is without sin....

I've known him for a long time. He's a good guy, straighforward and without pretense.

I meant to get back to this, but had infinitely more important things on my mind.


After serving 5 years a martyr,

I agree, Bill, the marriage stuff is unimportant. This, above, in bold is obscene.

The man served his country, above and beyond the call of duty, honorably for 2 decades, 5 of which as a POW refusing the offered special treatment until every man who came before him went home.

I believe I've asked you before and you just keep mouthing platitudes. How do you know so much about all this? Is this your opinion or is there some factual basis for these ideas?

Quote:

Ted Guy, a former Air Force Colonel held 5 1/2 years by the Vietnamese and McCain's senior ranking officer (SRO) in the POW camp, told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch he cannot remember the communists ever laying a hand on McCain.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd59.htm

Is Colonel Guy a liar?

McCain the collaborator

From the first days of McCain's captivity, he seriously violated the Military Code of Conduct, which outlines the basic responsibilities and obligations of members of the Armed Forces of the United States who have been captured by the enemy.

According to documentation obtained by the U.S. Veteran Dispatch, not only did POW McCain promise to give the communists "military information" in exchange for special hospital care not ordinarily available to U.S. prisoners, but he also made numerous anti-war radio broadcasts.

Article V of the Code of Conduct is very specific in declaring that U.S. military personnel are required to avoid answering questions to the utmost of their ability and to make no oral or written statements disloyal to the United States and its allies or harmful to their cause. Any violation of this code is considered collaborating with the enemy.

The following is McCain's own admission of collaboration in an article he wrote, printed May 14, 1973 in U.S. News and World Report:

"I think it was on the fourth day [after being shot down] that two guards came in, instead of one. One of them pulled back the blanket to show the other guard my injury. I looked at my knee. It was about the size, shape and color of a football. I remembered that when I was a flying instructor a fellow had ejected from his plane and broken his thigh. He had gone into shock, the blood had pooled in his leg, and he died, which came as quite a surprise to us - a man dying of a broken leg. Then I realized that a very similar thing was happening to me.

"When I saw it, I said to the guard, `O.K., get the officer.'"

"An officer came in after a few minutes. It was the man that we came to know very well as "The Bug." He was a psychotic torturer, one of the worst fiends that we had to deal with. I said, `O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.'"

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd59.htm

Why isn't this news?

OCCOM BILL wrote:

I meant to get back to this, but had infinitely more important things on my mind.


After serving 5 years a martyr,

I agree, Bill, the marriage stuff is unimportant. This, above, in bold is obscene.

The man served his country, above and beyond the call of duty, honorably for 2 decades, 5 of which as a POW refusing the offered special treatment until every man who came before him went home.

I believe I've asked you before and you just keep mouthing platitudes. How do you know so much about all this? Is this your opinion or is there some factual basis for these ideas?

Quote:

Ted Guy, a former Air Force Colonel held 5 1/2 years by the Vietnamese and McCain's senior ranking officer (SRO) in the POW camp, told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch he cannot remember the communists ever laying a hand on McCain.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd59.htm

Is Colonel Guy a liar?

Whether or not Guy is a liar remains to be proven. What is known is that he's not above telling tales and "forgetting" things to enrich himself. He's a part of Ted Sampley's cult who insist that there are still living POWs in Vietnam and McCain's support of normalizing relations with Vietnam in the late 1980s and early 1990s undercuts their fund-raising ability. (and while they claim tax-exempt status as an organization they've fought every attempt by the IRS to look at their books...)

But what Guy "remembers" is pretty much irrelevant. Guy was the SRO at "The Plantation". McCain was brought to The Plantation 6 weeks after his capture and spent his 22 months there in isolation. Then he was transferred to the Hanoi Hilton. So Guy's recollection would only cover a period of 22 months out of 5 1/2 years and he'd have no way of knowing what did or didn't happen to McCain while he was in isolation.

To quote another anti-McCain site: "The Hoppers have located two former POWs who claim they were senior ranking officers at the time McCain says he was tortured in solitary confinement. Ted Guy and Gordon "Swede" Larson both tell New Times that while they could not guarantee that McCain was not physically harmed, they doubted it."

So we have Ted Guy who doesn't remember McCain being tortured but he can't guarantee that he wasn't either... Apparently the only thing that can be confirmed concerning Ted Guy and John McCain is that they were both at the Plantation during the same time frame. Curiously, I can't seem to find any reference anywhere where Ted Guy or Swede Larson state that they actually ever met McCain at the Plantation. All of their "stories" begin with them talking to McCain a few years after they had all been released and were living back in the U.S.. (Guy died several years ago so he isn't around to ask...)

I agree with Occom bill 100% on his last post.

His private life is private and this questioning of a man or woman's service record or medals for political purposes is disgraceful no matter which side does it. There is plenty to go with on McCain without sinking to those levels and O.Bill listed them correctly and to the point.

Here's a clue: McCain wants to stay in Iraq, keep Bush's Tax cuts and opposes National Health Care and Abortion.

That's it and it's game, set, match. You win. If it gets tight, call him McSame a few times and then point out at 73 his VP (who WILL be from the Right of McCain will be President.) You don't have to slime him with this obscenity. Ya'll should be ashamed of yourselves.