THE GENERAL ELECTION 2008

Foxfyre wrote:

Which my dear Cyclop is the same thing as saying that Obama cannot work well without a net, speak well without a script, and having to support his ideas or know something without the text in front of him is not one of his strengths.

No, it is not the same thing at all. That's your Republican wish. The truth is that in an off-the-cuff situation, Obama would still beat the pants off of Grandpa John. But, Grandpa embarrasses himself in planned and prepped speeches, like last Tues.; so simple strategy would say that forcing him to give as many of those as possible, while limiting situations where McCain does better, is the right way to go.

I have no idea why we are having this conversation...

Cycloptichorn

You don't know much about politics,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

You don't know much about politics,

You're and expert?

Conversations with you are frustrating, because you circle your wagons around tired and false tropes (Obama is weak in extemporaneous speaking) and no amount of conversation ever changes that. It's like, you've decided that the meme for today is 'Obama is weak in town halls, and his supporters are afraid.' And you seek to repeat it over and over, no matter what is actually being said by anyone.

That's not a conversation at all, really. Just an idiot with an idea, who thinks repeating it again and again will somehow make it true. A waste of time, really.

Cycloptichorn

As you said Obama is at his weakest when he works without a script or a preprogrammed audience as he would have to do in a Town Hall meeting

H2O_MAN wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

You don't know much about politics,

You're and expert?

At the very least, my grammar is better.

You didn't say it in so many words. But I just thought since you claim ability to read my intent into so many of my posts and accuse me of this and that and make ad hominem references about this and that, it was fair game in your world to say what I think you mean when you say Obama won't allow any format where McCain might look good. And I think you mean that Obama knows he might look like an idiot in a Town Hall setting with McCain. If he honestly felt he could 'beat the pants off him', he would agree to it in a heartbeat.

Nah, it's about strategy.

The Chicago Bulls, during their heyday with Jordan in the 90's, could beat any team. They had the skills to compete and beat any team in the league. Some teams however are great on the three-point game; some are great on the transition, fast-paced game.

Even if you are a superior team, it isn't smart to play to your opponent's strengths. It's smart to deny those strengths and force them to try and beat you in other ways. That grasp of strategy is part of what makes teams great. And it's why Obama will limit, or not participate in, what McCain's team considers to be their greatest strength.

Really not hard to figure out; if you think about it for about, oh, three seconds...

Cycloptichorn

Those 'weekly town hall meetings' are designed to trap Obama. They put McCain in his best possible light (off the cuff speaking) and Obama in his worse.

They provide free advertising for McCain, who needs it.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Those 'weekly town hall meetings' are designed to trap Obama. They put McCain in his best possible light (off the cuff speaking) and Obama in his worse.

(Emphasis mine.)

I can see that you would mean that while Obama is better than McCain in every possible way, Obama is less-strong in town hall situations than in other situations.

I took it the same way Foxfyre did though and was about to say that's not true, then got caught up (reading all of this last part, since my last post here, in a chunk).

I like the idea because Obama IS very good in town hall situations and IS very good at off-the-cuff speaking. And the expectation game is very much in Obama's favor right now -- many people seem to have this same (erroneous, IMO) idea that Obama's all about the big-rally speeches and so-so in extemporaneous stuff. And this is McCain's only real strength, campaign-wise. (His prepared speeches, as the cottage-cheese-in-lime-jello speech June 3rd showed, are jaw-droppingly bad when they're not mediocre.)

So if Obama just holds his own -- which I expect him to do -- he comes out ahead. If Obama pastes McCain -- which I think is possible, especially if he needles McCain into an angry outburst -- even better.

Quote:

They provide free advertising for McCain, who needs it.

I agree with this, and it's a major drawback. Not sure if it's enough to nix the idea.

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., hinted Wednesday he's open to engaging Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., in a series of nontraditional presidential debates.

"Oh, we're definitely going to be doing some town hall debates," the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee told ABC "World News" anchor Charlie Gibson.

Indicating he's not prepared to start debating McCain next week [article was written June 4th], as McCain's campaign had formally requested, Obama expressed interest in going head to head with the presumptive Republican presidential nominee as soon as his campaign fully pivots toward the general election.

"I look forward to, you know, having more than just the three traditional debates that we've seen in recent presidential contests," he said.

Obama did, however, caution that both campaigns would have to figure out the timing.

It's so subjective, I don't really want to get into any kind of advance bet -- I think that we could easily view the same event and come away with completely different impressions of who won. I don't even really want to make any definite claims about three or more town hall events/ debates -- but chances seem pretty good.

Quote:

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., hinted Wednesday he's open to engaging Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., in a series of nontraditional presidential debates.

"Oh, we're definitely going to be doing some town hall debates," the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee told ABC "World News" anchor Charlie Gibson.

Indicating he's not prepared to start debating McCain next week [article was written June 4th], as McCain's campaign had formally requested, Obama expressed interest in going head to head with the presumptive Republican presidential nominee as soon as his campaign fully pivots toward the general election.

"I look forward to, you know, having more than just the three traditional debates that we've seen in recent presidential contests," he said.

Obama did, however, caution that both campaigns would have to figure out the timing.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Politics/story?id=4999288&page=1

Obama is a kiss ass ... Jimmy Carter with a tan

David Brock's Tough-Talking Third-Party Group Fizzles
By Greg Sargent - May 15, 2008, 11:47AM

A few weeks ago, Media Matters' David Brock announced to great fanfare that he was taking over Progressive Media USA, a third-party group that would, he vowed, raise $40 million for ads to soften up John McCain in advance of the general election.

Now the group is quietly shuttering those efforts with barely a whimper.

Barack Obama's fundraising team has been quietly putting out word to major donors that they didn't want any money to go to such third-party groups. Instead, they wanted the cash to go to the Obama campaign, so Obama advisers could be in sole control of the campaign's message.

It worked. Brock has quietly leaked a statement to The Washington Post saying that his group is, for all practical purposes, defunct.

McCain: I Can't Stop Outside Groups From Attacking Obama
By Greg Sargent - June 12, 2008, 11:15AM

John McCain has claimed that he doesn't want independent groups to attack Barack Obama, but in a new interview he says that, well, there really isn't anything he can do about it if those groups do decide to swift boat the Democrat:

GOP presidential contender John McCain says he can't control every attack ad aimed at Democrat Barack Obama and fully expects he'll face a similar barrage, sounding the bell for a raucous general election brawl. "I can't be a referee of every spot run on television," McCain told the Herald in an exclusive interview. "I admire Sen. Obama and his accomplishments, but we all know there are groups who want to attack me." The Arizona senator's hands-off posture on attack ads by now-infamous tax-free and unaccountable political groups called 527s marks a softening of his view on the negative campaign tactic -- and opens the door to a no-holds-barred five-month scramble.