0
   

THE GENERAL ELECTION 2008

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 08:32 am
I am more inclined to think the substance of fact as related in the following article will be more likely to have an effect on people's perception of how somebody presidential behaves. I don't have any confidence that the Obamamaniacs who worship him as messiah will be phased or will care, but those on the fence might be.

The premise is that the unified "Democrat narrative" is breaking down and this may be one more area that Obama is forced to either openly flipflop or try to wiggle out of it that 'what he really meant to say was. . . ."

June 21, 2008
The Facts in Iraq Are Changing
By Michael Barone

As we enter the second half of the campaign year, facts are undermining the Democratic narrative that has dominated our politics since about the time Hurricane Katrina rolled into the Gulf coast -- most importantly, the facts about Iraq.

During the Democratic primary season, all the party's candidates veered hardly a jot or tittle from the narrative that helped the Democrats sweep the November 2006 elections. Iraq is spiraling into civil war, we invaded unwisely and have botched things ever since, no good outcome is possible, and it is time to get out of there as fast as we can.

In January 2007, when George W. Bush ordered the surge strategy, which John McCain had advocated since the summer of 2003, Barack Obama informed us that the surge couldn't work. The only thing to do was to get out as soon as possible.

That stance proved to be a good move toward winning the presidential nomination -- but it was poor prophecy. It is beyond doubt now that the surge has been hugely successful, beyond even the hopes of its strongest advocates, like Frederick and Kimberly Kagan. Violence is down enormously, Anbar and Basra and Sadr City have been pacified, Prime Minister Maliki has led successful attempts to pacify Shiites as well as Sunnis, and the Iraqi parliament has passed almost all of the "benchmark" legislation demanded by the Democratic Congress -- all of which Barack Obama seems to have barely noticed or noticed not at all. He has not visited Iraq since January 2006 and did not seek a meeting with Gen. David Petraeus when he was in Washington.

I can remember how opponents of the Vietnam War simply tuned out news of American success when at Richard Nixon's orders Gen. Creighton Abrams pursued a new strategy. Opponents of the Iraq war, including Obama, seem to have been doing the same.

That's not true of all critics of the Bush administration and its military leaders. The editorial writers of The Washington Post have been paying close and careful attention. And even though they may be temperamentally more inclined to favor Obama's candidacy over John McCain's, they have not been unwilling to take Obama to task for his inattention to American success. Obama, the Post noted tartly on June 7, "has become unreasonably wedded to a year-old proposal to rapidly withdraw all U.S. combat forces from the country -- a plan offered when he wrongly believed that the situation would only worsen as long as American troops remained."

On June 18, a Post editorial made the same point again and noted that Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyard Zebari told Obama in a phone conversation that a precipitate withdrawal would embolden al-Qaida and Iran. But Obama told ABC News' Jake Tapper he said no such thing. Perhaps he's still trying to avoid facing facts that undermine his narrative. Which might also explain why he said he was willing to meet Mahmoud Ahmadinejad without preconditions while he has not been able to find time to meet with Petraeus.

Other examples of facts undermining Democratic narratives readily occur. Last week charges were dropped against the seventh of eight Marines accused of atrocities in Haditha. The narrative, peddled by Democratic Congressman (and Marine veteran) John Murtha, of depraved American soldiers massacring innocent Iraqis seems to be falling victim to the facts.

And the fact of $4 gasoline has undermined the narrative that alternative forms of energy can painlessly supply our needs. Public opinion has switched sharply and now favors drilling offshore and, by inference, in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Democrats are scrambling to argue that drilling wouldn't make any difference -- and that anyway the oil companies aren't drilling enough on federal land they currently lease.

All of this matters because the rejection of the Republicans in the 2006 elections was a verdict on competence more than ideology. The Republicans seemed incompetent at relieving victims of Katrina, producing success in Iraq and even policing the House page programs. The Democrats could not do worse and might do better. But in the 19 months since November 2006, some important facts have changed.

If George W. Bush was wrong about the surge from summer 2003 to January 2007, Barack Obama has been wrong about it from January 2007 to today. John McCain seems to have been right on it all along. When asked why he changed his position on an issue, John Maynard Keynes said: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" What say you, Sen. Obama?
US NEWS & WORLD REPORT LINK
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 11:26 am
And this just in. . . .what do you think McCain supporters? Is the worm turning? Or is this just a blip? How much difference will more money make?

McCain closes the cash gap against Obama
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 11:48 am
McCain And Obama Tied In Georgia

The Results:

McCain: 44%
Obama: 43%
Barr: 6%
Undecided: 7%

Quote:



Georgia, North Carolina, Virginia.... that'd be interesting.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2008 11:49 am
http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/383f205f43b2d1a2ac_b1m6ba1ij.pdf

The DNC today files suit to prevent the McCain camp from unilaterally withdrawing from the Primary Public financing system, and to hold them responsible for breaking the law.

It is likely that the FEC will be fully staffed very soon, now that Von Spavosky has withdrawn his nomination, and this will be settled before too long. My guess is that McCain will have to forfeit some money and take a public hit over this.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2008 12:35 pm
Interesting!

Yeah, Josh Marshall has been Very Irritated that McCain's hitting Obama on the financing thing when McCain himself is breaking the law! Didn't seem like anything was going to happen because of the FEC being shortstaffed though, so that'd be cool if there's movement after all.

Old europe, just saw your post about Georgia... Barr seems like he really might make a dent. Hope so!
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2008 01:55 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/383f205f43b2d1a2ac_b1m6ba1ij.pdf

The DNC today files suit to prevent the McCain camp from unilaterally withdrawing from the Primary Public financing system, and to hold them responsible for breaking the law.

It is likely that the FEC will be fully staffed very soon, now that Von Spavosky has withdrawn his nomination, and this will be settled before too long. My guess is that McCain will have to forfeit some money and take a public hit over this.

Cycloptichorn


Wow, what a bunch of whiny brats the DNC have turned into.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2008 02:28 pm
Laughing

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2008 11:23 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Yes, we'll see Sozobe. I am way too cynical and jaded at this stage in life to think that something like the campaign funding flipflop will have any effect on his electability.

Meanwhile......if McCain was giving speeches behind this adaption of the Presidential shield, what would his opponents say? Arrogant? Presumptious? Cheesy? Good idea? There are photos all over the place of Obama giving his speeches from behind his new 'logo':

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/06/20/newseals.ap.wh.jpg


So nobody thinks this cartoon sorta sums up the seal thing? Maybe not. But it did strike me as rather presumptious of somebody who doesn't think it necessary to salute the flag or wear a flag pin in order to demonstrate one's patriotism:

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/20080630RZ1AP-Obama.jpg
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2008 11:42 pm
And given the recent Supreme Court rulings, a mixed bag for sure, it is highly likely that the next President will nominate a Supreme Court justice or two. Who do you trust more to place value on the letter and intent of the Constitution?

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/bg0627aj.jpg
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2008 04:45 pm
In the recent bruhaha over McCain's military record and what this does or does not merit as credentials for the office of POTUS, at least two rated talk show hosts today suggested that the Swiftboating of McCain has begun. Because Obama can claim zero experience with the military or national defense issues, they figured his surrogates, however much he denies them, will be actively attempting to make McCain's military experience irrelevent.

In part the following NRO opinion piece relates to this:



Quote:
Tuesday, July 01, 2008
HORSERACE

Remembering What the Swift Boat Vets Actually Said

I'm not the first to make this point, but it seems the attacks on John McCain's war service stem from prominent Democrats completely misreading what happened with the Swift Boat Vets for Truth. The Democrats' conventional wisdom is that A) everything the group said was a lie and B) they attacked Kerry's wartime service.

Go back and reread what they charged. (Take a walk down memory lane from the Kerry Spot here, here and here and Byron's assessment of the impact here.) A lot of their stories came down to their word against John Kerry's. Some of the points of contention were inconclusive, and some of the reactions their comments triggered, like convention delegates wearing "purple heart band-aids" on the floor of the convention, were crass. But they scored several major points. The first was when they pointed out the impossibility of Kerry's story of "Christmas in Cambodia" that was "seared, seared" into his memory. When one of Kerry's oft-cited war stories had such a glaring impossibility at its heart (Richard Nixon wasn't president, and thus couldn't be denying bombing in Cambodia, on Christmas 1968) it raised doubts about all of his other accounts of the war.

Second, no Kerry supporter could dispute the candidate's postwar "Genghis Khan" testimony before Congress, which many Vietnam veterans saw as a betrayal. When it became clear that Kerry was referring to secondhand accounts, and had not himself seen soldiers cutting off heads and ears, many veterans saw that as reckless at best and most likely slander. I'd argue that this was the Swift Boat Vet argument that really gained traction, and I suspect many voters saw it as a situation that revealed Kerry's character.

Third, there were about 200 members of Swift Boat Vets for Truth. Maybe some of them had faulty memories, or were down-the-line Republicans, or just plain didn't like Kerry. But all of them? Many Americans looked at the sheer volume and detail of their stories of Kerry, and concluded that where there was smoke, there was most likely fire.

If we see hundreds of men who served with McCain come out and denounce him, the American people will reconsider their opinion of him, as well. But I would not hold my breath waiting for that to happen...
LINK
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2008 05:08 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
suggested that the Swiftboating of McCain has begun


Let me try to understand this: you seem to be saying that the "Swiftboating" - the smear attacks against McCain's military service - has begun.

And then you go on and post an article that essentially says that the swiftboaters were right, that what they did to Kerry wasn't a smear attack at all.


What are you trying to tell us?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2008 05:09 pm
old europe wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
suggested that the Swiftboating of McCain has begun


Let me try to understand this: you seem to be saying that the "Swiftboating" - the smear attacks against McCain's military service - has begun.

And then you go on and post an article that essentially says that the swiftboaters were right, that what they did to Kerry wasn't a smear attack at all.


What are you trying to tell us?


So then you agee that the "swiftboaters" that attacked Kerry were right?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2008 05:13 pm
mysteryman wrote:
old europe wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
suggested that the Swiftboating of McCain has begun


Let me try to understand this: you seem to be saying that the "Swiftboating" - the smear attacks against McCain's military service - has begun.

And then you go on and post an article that essentially says that the swiftboaters were right, that what they did to Kerry wasn't a smear attack at all.


What are you trying to tell us?


So then you agee that the "swiftboaters" that attacked Kerry were right?



No. I'm saying that Foxy posted an article that tried to justify the swiftboating of Kerry. That should have been easy enough to understand.

I've got no clue how you managed to misinterpret that as an endorsement of the '04 swiftboaters.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2008 05:21 pm
old europe wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
old europe wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
suggested that the Swiftboating of McCain has begun


Let me try to understand this: you seem to be saying that the "Swiftboating" - the smear attacks against McCain's military service - has begun.

And then you go on and post an article that essentially says that the swiftboaters were right, that what they did to Kerry wasn't a smear attack at all.


What are you trying to tell us?


So then you agee that the "swiftboaters" that attacked Kerry were right?



No. I'm saying that Foxy posted an article that tried to justify the swiftboating of Kerry. That should have been easy enough to understand.

I've got no clue how you managed to misinterpret that as an endorsement of the '04 swiftboaters.


I read the same article, and I didnt see it as trying to justify anything.
I saw it as pointing out that some of what they claimed about Kerry was either right or not shown to be wrong.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2008 05:26 pm
old europe wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
suggested that the Swiftboating of McCain has begun


Let me try to understand this: you seem to be saying that the "Swiftboating" - the smear attacks against McCain's military service - has begun.

And then you go on and post an article that essentially says that the swiftboaters were right, that what they did to Kerry wasn't a smear attack at all.


What are you trying to tell us?


My attention was to illustrate what 'swift boating' actually was and the effect that it had on the 2004 campaign. My attention was to further illustrate that the swift boaters were not 'universally' wrong or all 'pathological liars' as some/many Left/Kerry supporters attempted to paint them; and it was for THAT reason that the swift boating did apparently have some impact on that presidential election. If we are going to use the term 'swift boating' I think it is important to know exactly what is being implied with that term.

Finally my intention--and I believe the intention of the posted article--was to analyze whether Obama supporters are in fact 'swift boating' McCain and, if so, will they have suffiicent numbers with enough believable ammunition to make a difference? The swift boaters criticizing Kerry apparently did.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2008 05:32 pm
Interesting.

So, Foxy, from your point of view as a conservative somewhere to the right of McCain: Do you think that - if Obama supporters had "sufficient numbers" and "enough believable ammunition" to attack McCain's military record - that in that case "swiftboating" McCain would be warranted?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2008 05:39 pm
old europe wrote:
Interesting.

So, Foxy, from your point of view as a conservative somewhere to the right of McCain: Do you think that - if Obama supporters had "sufficient numbers" and "enough believable ammunition" to attack McCain's military record - that in that case "swiftboating" McCain would be warranted?


I think if Obama supporters had 'enough believable ammunition' to cast a cloud over McCain's character and veracity related to what he claims re his military service and what edge that might provide to him as a qualification for POTUS, then yes, 'swiftboating' would be warranted. The Swiftboaters, by virtue of their close proximity to Kerry and their own experience in that theater, obviously had enough believable ammunition to cast a cloud over Kerry's character and veracity and largely denied him the ability to use his military service as the center of his credentials to be POTUS.

Were ALL the swiftboaters acting out of noble motives or from accurate recollections? Probably not.

Were ALL the swiftboaters acting out of less than honorable motives and from inaccurate recollections? Almost certainly not.

The point raised in the article is that there is highly unlikely to be either sufficient numbers or believable ammunition to do that to McCain re his military service. The talk show hosts previously mentioned, however, suggested that this was the intent of Wesley Clark and others who have or will take shots at McCain's military service. If they can't get him on character or veracity, they will at the very least attempt to make it irrelevent as Clark attempted to do.

Further, if Obama keeps agreeing with President Bush as he recently announced that he does on the faith based initiatives, he will take away the 'Mc-same' re McCain advantage too.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 10:32 am
Q
Question(s) for OE:

Do you think a prominent Democrat such as Wesley Clark is acting under his own volition outside the authority of the Obama campaign and/or the Democratic Party? If so, do you think he is therefore not interested in receiving a lucrative appointment in an Obama administration?

Do you think Obama has in any way disputed what Wesley Clark said? Do you have any evidence that he did? Has he asked his spporters to cease and desist from such remarks? Is disassociating oneself from a remark the same thing as denouncing the remark?

Do you think the growing number of people for which Obama has disaassociated himself from their remarks are a pure coincidence?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 06:28 pm
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/cb0702awj.jpg
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 06:35 pm
Being a Community Organizer most certainly does prepare one for the presidency, more then being shot down and held in a prison camp. It teaches one the realities of organizational skills and hard work in the real world and gives a good perspective as to the actual problems people face

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 01/07/2025 at 12:08:17