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Amish and autism, good read..

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2008 06:41 am
This is interesting, as i have heard "mental health professionals" refer to ADD and ADHD as being part of the "autism spectrum" (or at least, so it seemed to me)> This was in the late 1980s while i worked for a family shelter. When clients were taken into our program (and only families with children qualified), we immediately reported all the "vital statistics" of the family to a privately-owned family services center (which i won't identify for obvious reasons). This organization received aid from the municipality, the county, the state and the Federal Emergency Management Agency--the later had been given the task of resolving the homelessness problem in the late 1980s, when the economic conditions of "Reaganomics" lead to an explosion of homelessness, especially homeless families. Having reported these families to the family services center (with whom we had to cooperate in order to receive FEMA funds for our program), they reported the "intake" to all the relative municipal, county and state agencies, which invariably resulted in contacts with us by Child and Family Services case workers and representatives of the local school boards. Employees of the DCFS or of the School Boards also seemed to invariably notify us of the participation in a drug-based treatment program for any children involved. (I say that it seemed that they invariably did this, because we did not question the families we took in about drug treatments for children, so it is possible that some of them "slipped through the cracks.")

This page at the National Institute of Mental Health lists drugs of choice for the treatment of ADD and ADHD. The NIMH is described by Wikipedia as the largest research institution in the world. It is one of the National Institutes of Health supported by the Federal government in the United States. This page at NIMH describes ASD and treatments.

I would not be surprised to learn that "mental health professionals" in the United States, including and especially those retained by local school districts, make vague distinctions between developmental disability conditions and behavioral management conditions. I am not saying this is so, but i was often surprised to learn which children in our shelter were identified as "problem children," and was particularly struck in two cases by the use of the term "autism spectrum disorder" in reference to children who did not appear to me to be autistic, based on my admittedly imprecise understanding of what ought to be described as autism.

My principle objection in this issue is the ease with which "mental health professionals" (so many of whom receive no and required to have no medical training which is not referential to psychology as an academic discipline) can prescribe drugs--both for "behavioral problems" in children and "depression" in adults. As i have pointed out, it is (or once was) true that in Illinois and Ohio that people with no specific medical training were legally entitled to prescribe for mental health conditions--while even an experienced nurse-practitioner would not be able to prescribe for morbid conditions of physical trauma without the counter-signature of a physician.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2008 08:49 am
I had not thought that ADD was part of the autism spectrum so I looked it up -- and Setanta is right:

Quote:
Medications do not treat the disorder itself, although core symptoms in some individuals may be affected by medications. Most research to date has been conducted on children, contrary to the usual methodology in medicine. In general, medications are used to target symptoms, symptom complexes, or comorbid disorders, such as ADD, obsessive-compulsive disorder, depression, dysthymia, and tic disorders. Use of medications has become more common, with the prevalence of autistic children taking medications (psychotropics, antiseizure medications, megavitamins) rising from 42% in 1995 to 65% in 2003 (Coleman, 2005). Less evidence of efficacy exists in the other PDDs, so treatment decisions in those cases are often based on the evidence that exists in autism. As a general rule, autistic children seem to be more sensitive to psychoactive medications, so the adage of "start low and go slow" with every drug trial is particularly applicable to this population.

The newer generation antipsychotics have developed a frontline position in the treatment of autism. This is due to several well-designed studies with one of these agents, risperidone (Risperdal), showing broad effects on several of the core symptoms of autism. Dosages in these studies were low, usually in the 1-2 mg/d range, although doses as high as 4.5 mg were used in larger children. Other second-generation antipsychotics have not received as much study with autism, but many practitioners try them out with individual patients when risperidone is not effective or not tolerated. The relative lack of long-term adverse effects of the second-generation antipsychotics when compared with traditional antipsychotics makes them a more attractive option.

Antidepressants play several roles in the treatment of individuals with autism and PDDs. They are used to treat comorbid depressive disorders, obsessive-compulsive disorder, or other comorbid anxiety disorders, but they also may play a role in symptom management because of the effect they have on serotonin dysfunction, which is an issue for at least some individuals with autism. Any of the antidepressants may play a role in the treatment of depressive disorders, but the only evidence for efficacy in either anxiety symptoms or obsessive-compulsive symptoms is for the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), including clomipramine. These drugs may decrease obsessive stereotyped behaviors and also may enhance overall communication and improve social reciprocity, to minor degrees.

Stimulants have been shown to be helpful in treating ADD symptoms in the autistic spectrum disorders, but with lower efficacy (~50% vs 80-90% in nonautistic patients) and have a notably higher rate of side effects. Beta-blockers play a more limited role in the treatment of autism, and the PDDs and are used solely for the treatment of aggression and self-injurious behavior, where they can reduce the intensity and frequency of the behavior. Patients whose symptoms are characterized by overactivity, overarousal, poor frustration tolerance, and self-injurious behavior may be the most likely to benefit.

With regard to opioid antagonists, at one point, it was felt that increased opiate activity might cause the social and behavioral abnormalities in autism. Some evidence of abnormalities in this system has been found, but control of symptoms shows no effect on core symptoms of autism. Studies have shown a decrease in hyperactivity. No effect on self-injurious behavior has been shown. One study of Rett disorder showed a more rapid deterioration in the illness of those receiving naltrexone. Much hope was recently placed on the use of secretin injections; however, careful evaluation of treatment with this hormone in autism failed to find significant treatment benefits. Some small-scale studies showed positive responses to use of stimulants in autism; however, the use of stimulants is uncommon in this condition. This is because side effects are particularly frequent, with worsened irritability, aggression, and insomnia. Stimulant use is best reserved for higher functioning patients with comorbid symptoms consistent with ADHD.

No evidence exists as to whether it is better to use SSRIs, antipsychotics, alpha agonists, or stimulants as the first line of treatment for autism, so the decision must be left to the clinician's judgment and the primary behavioral target. Multiple medications may be necessary for optimal medication management. If drugs from one category are not effective, it would suggest that a trial of drugs from another category should be considered. As with any medication used in the treatment of autism, dosages used generally should be lower than those used for comparably aged healthy individuals, with more gradual dosage adjustments.


http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic3202.htm
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2008 04:42 pm
Setanta wrote:
This is interesting, as i have heard "mental health professionals" refer to ADD and ADHD as being part of the "autism spectrum" (or at least, so it seemed to me)> This was in the late 1980s while i worked for a family shelter. When clients were taken into our program (and only families with children qualified), we immediately reported all the "vital statistics" of the family to a privately-owned family services center (which i won't identify for obvious reasons). This organization received aid from the municipality, the county, the state and the Federal Emergency Management Agency--the later had been given the task of resolving the homelessness problem in the late 1980s, when the economic conditions of "Reaganomics" lead to an explosion of homelessness, especially homeless families. Having reported these families to the family services center (with whom we had to cooperate in order to receive FEMA funds for our program), they reported the "intake" to all the relative municipal, county and state agencies, which invariably resulted in contacts with us by Child and Family Services case workers and representatives of the local school boards. Employees of the DCFS or of the School Boards also seemed to invariably notify us of the participation in a drug-based treatment program for any children involved. (I say that it seemed that they invariably did this, because we did not question the families we took in about drug treatments for children, so it is possible that some of them "slipped through the cracks.")

This page at the National Institute of Mental Health lists drugs of choice for the treatment of ADD and ADHD. The NIMH is described by Wikipedia as the largest research institution in the world. It is one of the National Institutes of Health supported by the Federal government in the United States. This page at NIMH describes ASD and treatments.

I would not be surprised to learn that "mental health professionals" in the United States, including and especially those retained by local school districts, make vague distinctions between developmental disability conditions and behavioral management conditions. I am not saying this is so, but i was often surprised to learn which children in our shelter were identified as "problem children," and was particularly struck in two cases by the use of the term "autism spectrum disorder" in reference to children who did not appear to me to be autistic, based on my admittedly imprecise understanding of what ought to be described as autism.

My principle objection in this issue is the ease with which "mental health professionals" (so many of whom receive no and required to have no medical training which is not referential to psychology as an academic discipline) can prescribe drugs--both for "behavioral problems" in children and "depression" in adults. As i have pointed out, it is (or once was) true that in Illinois and Ohio that people with no specific medical training were legally entitled to prescribe for mental health conditions--while even an experienced nurse-practitioner would not be able to prescribe for morbid conditions of physical trauma without the counter-signature of a physician.




I have NEVER heard here of ADD/ADHD described as part of autism spectrum disorder.....sounds like extraordinarily ignorant and woolly thinking.


Only medically trained people may prescribe here...though many do so in these areas with extraordinary ignorance and appalling assessment and diagnostic skills. Only paediatricians and psychiatrists may prescribe for ADD/ADHD, though, frankly, I'd trust a good psychologist to make a decent assessment far, far more than I would trust 90% of paediatricians and a concerning number of psychiatrists, (many of whom are over-diagnosing to a terrifying extent, and some of whom are prescribing multiple drugs to tiny children, whilst ignoring, or simply not educated enough to be aware of, the obvious and disturbing family and parenting problems staring them in the face), so I do not share what appears to be your faith in a medical degree in this area. We have had a number of kids nearly killed by paediatricians prescribing dangerous and frankly terrifying combinations of drugs.


Nonetheless, the US has a much greater problem in this area than we do. (And Britain and Europe has way less.)



I am aware of some prescribing of anti-depressants here for autism spectrum disorders...this is not Ritalin, however.


I would very happily refer some of these kids to a good child psychiatrist for assessment for medication, by the way....(I have always worked with child psychiatrists who are extremely conservative re drugs...but some of them are as bad as the worst paediatricians in this regard)....especially for obsessive behaviours that are harmful or totally alienating or truly dangerous to others.


Most assessment for autism spectrum disorder here is done by multi-disciplinary panels, though a paediatrician and a psychiatrist together may do it, if their diagnosis agrees.



Edit: I note Boomer that your quote does not spoeak of treating autism spectrum with speed......it speaks of treating alleged co-morbid ADD/ADHD with speed. Ie kids alleged to have autism spectrum AND ADD/ADHD.



This is off thread, so I apologize, but the cynical view where I have worked in the past, is that the (private) paediatricians have had income cuts sionce so many childhood diseases have been more or less eredicated, and the ADD panic occurred at a great time for them, and, of course, as you say, the drug companies we have always with us.

I think there are signs of the ADD craze passing....as there has been a lot of work done to attempt to re-establish some sanity....but guess what? There appears, in the US, to be a new craze emerging........childhood bi-polar.


This is likely even more lucrative than ADD....because the very woolly "diagnostic criteria" are even more inclusive, AND MORE DRUGS GET EXPERIMENTED WITH!!!


The proponents of this NLD (new and lucrative disorder) speak of spending YEARS finding "the right combination" of drugs. Doctors get to see kids frequently, and prescribe all kinds of different drugs!!! It's a gold rush!!!


Once again, this is not to say that some kids may have something that medical intervention may play a part in, but, as with the ADD craze, it's a great let-off for parents who have trouble BEING parents, and lucrative, and, if it becomes a craze as ADD did, it will create a situation where parents are demanding that their children be drugged, and being very persistent, and doctor-shopping until they find a doctor who is happy to oblige.


I cannot tell you the drama that was created for the organization I used to work for because we were not agreeing to drug half the kids that walked in the door...drama from parents AND paediatricians.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2008 09:10 pm
And though she's not really ill
There's a little yellow pill . . .
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2008 09:31 am
Setanta wrote:
This is interesting, as i have heard "mental health professionals" refer to ADD and AD
HD as being part of the "autism spectrum"...........
[.............]
My principle objection in this issue is the ease with which "mental health professionals" .........can prescribe drugs--both for "behavioral problems" in children and "depression" in adults. ..........


The following "diseases" usually get grouped together for statistical (as distinct from medical, on which I can't comment) purposes:
__________________________________________________

ADHD, Learning disabilities, Asperger's, Tourette's, Bipolar.
__________________________________________________
In fact there's a book by that title, at:
http://www.pediatricneurology.com/adhd.htm

I've no idea if these are "autism spectrum disorders" defined to include "ADD/ADHD" and/or "behavioral problems": at any rate the same medications are used for all of them. If all these "experts" are deemed capable of "diagnosing" these "diseases", it seems to follow logically that they should also be allowed to prescribe for them, even "off label", from the available pharmacopoeia.


If those "experts", however, make an error in their "diagnosis".......>

Quote:
......In late adolescents with bipolar disorder, the most common mistaken diagnoses are schizophrenia and conduct disorder. .... The difficulty in distinguishing these two disorders is due to the high prevalence of coexisting ADHD ...

http://www.dbpeds.org/articles/detail.cfm?TextID=336

> and mistakenly start "treating" old-fashioned obnoxious behavior with the heavy-duty drugs used for schizophrenia, won't their hapless patients risk reaching a point of no return?
0 Replies
 
 

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