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Is this actually a pregnant man?

 
 
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 01:11 pm
Pregnant man shares story with Oprah

Posted Fri Apr 4, 2008 9:25am AEDT

A transgender man who is six months pregnant said in an interview aired by Oprah Winfrey overnight that he always wanted to have a child and considers it a miracle.

"It's not a male or female desire to have a child. It's a human desire," a thinly-bearded Thomas Beatie said.

"I have a very stable male identity," he added, saying that pregnancy neither defines him nor makes him feel feminine.

Mr Beatie, 34, who lives in Oregon, was born a woman but decided to become a man 10 years ago.

He began taking testosterone treatments and had breast surgery to remove glands and flatten his chest.

"I opted not to do anything with my reproductive organs because I wanted to have a child one day," he told the talk show host.

Mr Beatie says he is carrying the child because his wife Nancy had a hysterectomy 20 years ago after suffering severe endrometriosis, and he has a strong desire for a child that is biologically his.

Nancy - to whom Mr Beatie has been married for five years and who has two grown daughters by a previous marriage - also appeared on the show.

She said the couple's roles will not change once the baby is born.

"He's going to be the father and I'm going to be the mother," she said.

Their marriage is legal and he is recognised under state law as a man.

The couple was shown on video provided by People magazine, which collaborated with Winfrey on the show, showing the room that will be the baby's nursery.

Mr Beatie said the little girl was going to be "daddy's little princess."

His obstetrician, Dr Kimberly James, told Winfrey: "This is a normal pregnancy."

She said Mr Beatie stopped taking testosterone two years ago and his levels of the hormone are normal.

"This baby is totally healthy," she said. "This is what I consider a normal pregnancy."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/04/2207719.htm?section=entertainment


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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 3,297 • Replies: 25
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Mame
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 01:24 pm
Will he be able to nurse it, I wonder?
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 01:28 pm
Re: Is this actually a pregnant man?
Probably not, Mame:

kickycan wrote:
He began taking testosterone treatments and had breast surgery to remove glands and flatten his chest.


I don't get though, who is the biological father? Sperm donor?

Or I guess, who is the OTHER biological father...!

I have a hard time answering Kicky's title question. If someone stated either conclusion (yes or no) I'd probably find something to argue with. I guess "it depends..."
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 02:35 pm
Um, I'd say woman. I mean, he/she has female sex organs and even if he identifies himself as a man, he still has a female body (or the parts that make a female, female)
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 02:48 pm
Another question is that if he has female parts, is his wife gay?
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 02:54 pm
She'd have to be, right?

I mean, maybe not mentally but...physically...oh, man this is just WAY too confusing.
0 Replies
 
Eva
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 03:26 pm
I came home early from classes yesterday and saw the show.

Thomas (formerly Tracy) is a transgendered male. He had surgery to reshape his chest, and the mammary glands were removed, so no, he will not be able to nurse. Through hormone treatment (testosterone) the clitoris enlarged to form a small penis (same thing happens in the womb at around 2 months when testosterone production starts) along with body hair, etc. Yes, he is able to have intercourse with his wife. No, she is not a lesbian. No, his surgery did not include removal of the female organs. He and his wife decided they wanted a child, but due to severe endometriosis, she'd had a hysterectomy. So, after talking with doctors, they decided he should try it. He stopped taking testosterone supplements two years before becoming pregnant, so his hormone levels are normal for pregnancy. Yes, they purchased sperm from a sperm bank. Actually, this is his second pregnancy. He had a miscarriage the first time. They showed footage of him having an ultrasound on the show, and this pregnancy appears to be perfectly healthy.

It IS a mind-bender, but I wish them the best.
0 Replies
 
rainkeeper
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 06:08 pm
I hope this isn't too crude. My apologies if it is.

Just a penis on the outside now right? What's this baby's exit strategy? C-section?

Are there sperm-creating testicles? One might say that if a body can create sperm to impregnate another than it is male. One might also say that if a body has eggs for reproduction than it is a female.

Imagine a scientist comes across a new species. The males and females look identical in every way. The only difference is that one creates sperm and the other eggs.

It is my opinion that physically the body in question is definitely a female, because it has the eggs. Now if the body can create sperm than I am willing to call it a male as well. Thus my vote will be "both" unless this body can not create sperm.

Mentally I think that the person is unisex, whatever their persona. One's personality is determined by all that they have learned.

(If a female brain was transplanted into a male body at birth, the person would likely adopt a male personality, and be almost the same person that a male brain would have been. I said 'almost the same person', because differences have been recognized between the male and female brains. Yes, there are obvious mental differences between men and woman, but at this point I think that ninety-nine percent of those differences are learned.)

Hmm...I do say; if anyone would be so kind as to elaborate on this I would appreciate it.

Because of the above, I think that the person's personality is irrelevant when it comes to the question of "man or woman".

Female DNA and body. Male and female sex organs. The mind is unisex. This mind grew to want a male identity.

Please correct me if I am wrong; for if I am wrong I would like to know.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 06:13 pm
It's all too side-show carnival for me. I wonder if the kid will have to buy both Mother and Father Day gifts for the same parent.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 06:15 pm
I think the answer to Kicky's question is completely dependent upon how oone defines man.


Legally, it appears that yes, this is a man having a baby.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 06:22 pm
Kicky, dude.

There is this cool place to waste time called utube...

Damnit man, you find some weird ****...

RH
0 Replies
 
Eva
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 06:24 pm
rainkeeper wrote:
I hope this isn't too crude. My apologies if it is.

Just a penis on the outside now right? What's this baby's exit strategy? C-section?

Are there sperm-creating testicles?


Thomas has female genitalia with a small penis (used to be a clitoris.) No testicles. A vaginal birth should be possible, barring complications.

Quote:
One might say that if a body can create sperm to impregnate another than it is male. One might also say that if a body has eggs for reproduction than it is a female.


This isn't a very complete definition. What about males who are sterile? What about post-menopausal women, or women who have had their ovaries removed? Is reproductive ability the determiner of sexual identity? Is physical appearance? Is it DNA? Or is it psychological? This is where we get into a lot of transgender issues. As a society, we are still trying to figure out the answers to these questions.

In the meantime, I will respect a person's right to be considered whichever sex they feel is the correct one for him/herself.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 07:23 pm
Eva wrote:
rainkeeper wrote:
I hope this isn't too crude. My apologies if it is.

Just a penis on the outside now right? What's this baby's exit strategy? C-section?

Are there sperm-creating testicles?


Thomas has female genitalia with a small penis (used to be a clitoris.) No testicles. A vaginal birth should be possible, barring complications.

Quote:
One might say that if a body can create sperm to impregnate another than it is male. One might also say that if a body has eggs for reproduction than it is a female.


This isn't a very complete definition. What about males who are sterile? What about post-menopausal women, or women who have had their ovaries removed? Is reproductive ability the determiner of sexual identity? Is physical appearance? Is it DNA? Or is it psychological? This is where we get into a lot of transgender issues. As a society, we are still trying to figure out the answers to these questions.

In the meantime, I will respect a person's right to be considered whichever sex they feel is the correct one for him/herself.



What Eva said....in 99% of cases...(my work leads me to come across the odd situation where an allegedly "transsexual" person abuses this assumption for gaining trust that ought not to be granted.)
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 10:09 pm
Mame wrote:
Will he be able to nurse it, I wonder?


Would you want to be nursed by Shim?
0 Replies
 
rainkeeper
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 10:37 pm
Well...I voted.
Is this a man or a woman?
I think Thomas is a pregnant woman with a penis attached and her breasts removed.
I am looking at this basically. The most primary. The deepest most solid thing.
Her basic body is female. Even if she had no female reproductive organs. Even if she had testicles and was capable of impregnating another female. Even if she looked like a male in every way. Her DNA, her structure, everything apart from the changes made is still female.

Of course there are so many other ways of looking at it. I've decided on the most basic thing for now (The DNA and what not), but I could probably change my mind Rolling Eyes Smile. I mean if you see someone standing naked in front of you that looks fully like a man, i mean FULLY Shocked , It'd be pretty hard to deny it! Smile .

Quote:
In the meantime, I will respect a person's right to be considered whichever sex they feel is the correct one for him/herself.

Same here.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 11:07 pm
Quote:
Her DNA... is still female.


This I doubt.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Apr, 2008 07:15 am
Female......and I'll bite my tongue on the rest.
0 Replies
 
silus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Apr, 2008 07:00 am
There is one thing i think is very important and i haven't seen it mentioned yet. That is, what effect will this have on the child. With all of the publicity that this is getting it makes it virtually impossible for the child to have a chance at a good childhood. We all know what the other kids in its school will do/say. Even after school, the child will walk around the rest of its life with everyone knowing the circumstances surrounding its birth. However much we would like to think we are an open minded society this will inevitably throw up roadblocks throughout its life.

Maybe it's just me but it seems like the parents are being incredibly selfish. It is a given that the vast majority of parents want their children to have a happy life. But simply the act of having this child will make its life difficult because of certain stigmas it will have to deal with daily.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Apr, 2008 07:05 am
Eh, the kid's 15 minutes of fame will likely have expired well before he or she is old enough to be conscious of what other people think.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jul, 2008 10:00 am
The pregnant man gave birth yesterday.
0 Replies
 
 

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