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Divided Democrats could boost McCain

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2008 10:33 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Shouldnt they be allotted to the winner of the primary, like they always do?

Well there's a slight difference between the Michigan primaries and how "they always do" it, isnt there? I mean, considering that Hillary was the only candidate on the ballot, aside from Dennis Kucinich?

If you win a primary but there was noone else in it, does it still count?

I'd say no.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Apr, 2008 10:38 am
fishin wrote:
Quote:
20-25% of the voters thusfar in the Democratic primaries have been Republicans and/or Independents (with Independents being the much larger share of the two.)

As such, they don't necessarily believe in the Democratic Party agenda (if they did they'd probably be Democrats). They are voting for a person, not the party.


Of course, there's another way to consider this as well. They may, primarily, be voting or aligning against something. That looks pretty likely to me given everything we know about present levels of dissatisfaction (eg yesterday's NY Times piece on percentages who believe the country has gone in the wrong direction).

For many of those independents and republicans then, it may not be the appeal of either Dem candidate that is drawing them, but rather it could be a perception that conservatism/Republicanism as presently manifested, has become or led to an America (or policies) that they don't like very much.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Apr, 2008 11:10 am
http://www.princeton.edu/~pkrugman/cbemp.png

changes in non-farm employment under last two presidents...

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Apr, 2008 11:33 am
Or, uh, stuff like this...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/us/05popline.html
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Apr, 2008 11:55 am
Or, and hell why not, now that I'm on this subject...

This St. Petersburg story is a perfect illustration of the use of industry front groups, purposefully and deceitfully flying the colors of unafilliated independence and consumer/citizen advocacy, to forward the interests of the industries funding them...

Quote:
WASHINGTON - Two years ago, the watchdog group Citizens Against Government Waste launched a lobbying campaign about avocados.

The group, which enjoys a strong reputation in the nation's capital for keeping an independent eye on government spending, plunged into an obscure agricultural dispute. It issued press releases and prodded its members to support avocados from Mexico.

Tom Bellamore, whose California Avocado Commission was fighting the Mexican imports, was puzzled. "I don't think avocados have much to do with government waste," he said.

Indeed, Citizens Against Government Waste did not reveal what motivated the aggressive campaign: It had received about $100,000 from Mexican avocado growers.

That's just one of many instances in which CAGW has traded on its watchdog reputation by taking money from companies and trade associations and then conducted lobbying and public relations campaigns on their behalf - without revealing that money changed hands...

CAGW is well known and highly regarded for its crusade against political pork. Sen. John McCain is a prominent supporter and often cites the group's Pig Book of wasteful programs.

But to earn money, CAGW has ventured into issues that have little to do with government waste and has not revealed who is behind the campaigns . As a result, major news outlets continue to refer to it as "a public interest group" or "a taxpayer watchdog."

Matt Myers, the president of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, an antitobacco group, said CAGW is neither. "They are nothing but a voice of industry."

The "Pig Book'
CAGW was founded in 1984 to continue the work of the Grace Commission, which President Ronald Reagan created to identify waste in government. CAGW describes itself as "a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization dedicated to eliminating waste, fraud, abuse, and mismanagement in government."

Tom Schatz, CAGW's president, often testifies before congressional committees. The group has trademarked a toll-free number that illustrates its antigovernment philosophy: 1-800-BE ANGRY.

CAGW is widely quoted by the news media. In the past five years, its officials have been quoted in 43 stories in the Washington Post, 25 in the New York Times and 12 in the St. Petersburg Times.

"Americans everywhere should thank Citizens Against Government Waste for its tireless efforts to terminate waste and pork from the federal budget," McCain said in 2001.


Lots more here... 63333333333333+ (oops, our new kitten just typed that bit)
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/04/02/Worldandnation/For_price__watchdog_w.shtml
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Apr, 2008 12:05 pm
blatham wrote:
fishin wrote:
Quote:
20-25% of the voters thusfar in the Democratic primaries have been Republicans and/or Independents (with Independents being the much larger share of the two.)

As such, they don't necessarily believe in the Democratic Party agenda (if they did they'd probably be Democrats). They are voting for a person, not the party.


Of course, there's another way to consider this as well. They may, primarily, be voting or aligning against something. That looks pretty likely to me given everything we know about present levels of dissatisfaction (eg yesterday's NY Times piece on percentages who believe the country has gone in the wrong direction).

For many of those independents and republicans then, it may not be the appeal of either Dem candidate that is drawing them, but rather it could be a perception that conservatism/Republicanism as presently manifested, has become or led to an America (or policies) that they don't like very much.


*nods* Always a possibility! Of course, considering her negative ratings and the way those Independents have been casting their ballots, it could be Hillary that they don't like... Wink
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Apr, 2008 12:14 pm
fishin wrote:
blatham wrote:
fishin wrote:
Quote:
20-25% of the voters thusfar in the Democratic primaries have been Republicans and/or Independents (with Independents being the much larger share of the two.)

As such, they don't necessarily believe in the Democratic Party agenda (if they did they'd probably be Democrats). They are voting for a person, not the party.


Of course, there's another way to consider this as well. They may, primarily, be voting or aligning against something. That looks pretty likely to me given everything we know about present levels of dissatisfaction (eg yesterday's NY Times piece on percentages who believe the country has gone in the wrong direction).

For many of those independents and republicans then, it may not be the appeal of either Dem candidate that is drawing them, but rather it could be a perception that conservatism/Republicanism as presently manifested, has become or led to an America (or policies) that they don't like very much.


*nods* Always a possibility! Of course, considering her negative ratings and the way those Independents have been casting their ballots, it could be Hillary that they don't like... Wink


As one of my single but girl-entranced nephews said to me recently, "I am overwhelmed by possibilities."
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Apr, 2008 12:16 pm
new york mag offers up

Quote:


http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/04/mccain_ascendant_his_many_bles.html

Quote:
What is it about John McCain? Amid endless war, scandal, and financial turmoil delivered by a Republican administration, Republicans are likely to lose at least four Senate seats this year, and Republican congressmen are retiring by the bushel. Yet here's the Republican presidential nominee, having a great stretch in the early run-up to the conventions. He's not only running even with Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton nationwide but often ahead in key battleground states such as Florida and Ohio. How is that possible? It's not just because Clinton and Obama are beating each other up.


<snip>

Quote:
Then the Jeremiah Wright blowup triggered a shift away from the Democrats among precisely the kinds of voters McCain needs to win the general election. The specific effect depends on the opponent McCain draws. Against Obama, he attracts a chunk of conservative Democrats, according to Gallup's latest numbers. And he keeps solid hold of the small-town conservatives and right-leaning Independents who had flickered toward the upstart senator. Against Hillary, McCain makes his greatest inroads among Independents and liberal and moderate Republicans, who are increasingly turned off by her partisan and polarizing campaign. But if you add either group of defectors to McCain's support among conservative Republicans (now more than 90 percent) and Hispanics (still about 35 percent), you get an electoral map that looks a lot more like 2000 or 2004 than the realigned Democratic landscape that seemed possible six months ago.


<snip>

Quote:
Finally, McCain has been allowed to define himself essentially without contradiction for about two months now. Mike Huckabee tossed bouquets his way before finally dropping out. Hillary conceded McCain's commander-in-chief bona fides in order to knife Obama, and Bill Clinton talked up McCain's love of country. Obama would love to be saturating the nation with general-election ads, the way Bill Clinton nuked Bob Dole in the months before the 1996 conventions, but he can't get around to that just yet.


<snip>

Quote:
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Apr, 2008 09:32 am
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii19/SLdkos/2315146736_97acd134db_m.jpg
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Apr, 2008 10:46 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii19/SLdkos/
2315146736_97acd134db_m.jpg


WOW! :wink:
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Apr, 2008 11:32 am
Every time I look at this thread question, I think, there ain't enough Democratic division in the known universe to get John W. McSame elected this year.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Apr, 2008 03:59 pm
Divided Dems not only can "boost" McCain, they are.

If there wasn't an ongoing battle in the Dem Party, McCain would not have the luxury of starting his national campaign with a "bio tour." The great thing about this opening move is that while the press is far to jaded (or smart depending on your point of view) to cover it in depth, he is the GOP standard bearer, and therefore they have to report on him nightly. Since he has such a great bio, unless he makes a stupid comment, all they can report on is "John McCain and his heroic bio."

The Dems understand this which is why all of their spokespersons have been taking direct shots at McCain and especially on todays morning news shows.

Meanwhile Hillary and Obama keep duking it out, and we can look forward to this spectacle for at least another two months -- that's a lot of time in a campaign.

I have to admit, that if I were a Democrat, I would be calling for Hillary to withdraw. There is no scenario where her continued campaign can improve Democrat's chance for winning in November: None, and let's face it, if you're a liberal either Hillary or Obama are better than McCain.

But...hell hath no fury like a feverish partisan who feels as if he or she has been screwed.

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...

See, God really is a conservative.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Apr, 2008 04:06 pm
One should cross the street and make use of Democractic credentials/ franchaise.
One should not allow the torture, Butchere , rape, loot the innocent countries.
That is Democracy.
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2008 07:19 am
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Divided Dems not only can "boost" McCain, they are.

If there wasn't an ongoing battle in the Dem Party, McCain would not have the luxury of starting his national campaign with a "bio tour." The great thing about this opening move is that while the press is far to jaded (or smart depending on your point of view) to cover it in depth, he is the GOP standard bearer, and therefore they have to report on him nightly. Since he has such a great bio, unless he makes a stupid comment, all they can report on is "John McCain and his heroic bio."

The Dems understand this which is why all of their spokespersons have been taking direct shots at McCain and especially on todays morning news shows.

Meanwhile Hillary and Obama keep duking it out, and we can look forward to this spectacle for at least another two months -- that's a lot of time in a campaign.

I have to admit, that if I were a Democrat, I would be calling for Hillary to withdraw. There is no scenario where her continued campaign can improve Democrat's chance for winning in November: None, and let's face it, if you're a liberal either Hillary or Obama are better than McCain.

But...hell hath no fury like a feverish partisan who feels as if he or she has been screwed.

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...

See, God really is a conservative.


Unlike you, I see it different! McCain is a wishy-washy, cut from the same cloth partisan, as his predecessor Bush! Whoever comes out of the Democratic contest, I will vote for just to keep him out!

Since you are NOT a Democrat, as you say, please don't presume to speak for me or Democrats, in general, unless you know something, I don't and you DON'T! Cool
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2008 08:06 am
teenyboone wrote:

Since you are NOT a Democrat, as you say, please don't presume to speak for me or Democrats, in general, unless you know something, I don't and you DON'T! Cool


Then I suggest you take your own advice and not pretend to be speaking for repubs and anyone else that might disagree with you..
You seem to enjoy calling everyone that disagrees with you a racist and you seem to know how everyone else thinks.
Since you are not a repub, and since you dont know how everyone else thinks, dont presume to speak for anyone else, except yourself.

Or are you gonna deny that these are your words...

Quote:
You Repugs, whose designated candidate, MCCain, a "born" racist, that sold out other POW's, wants an America to revert back to the "bad old days" of separate and unequal. I was NOT moved at seeing him in Memphis, when he was one of the main deterrents, to making the King Holiday, a reality. All you racists, posting against an accomplished Black, taking part, as is his right to do so, will get what you wish for, is all I can say! FLAME away, as usual, but you can KISS me where the SUN, don't shine!
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2008 08:12 am
mysteryman wrote:
teenyboone wrote:

Since you are NOT a Democrat, as you say, please don't presume to speak for me or Democrats, in general, unless you know something, I don't and you DON'T! Cool


Then I suggest you take your own advice and not pretend to be speaking for repubs and anyone else that might disagree with you..
You seem to enjoy calling everyone that disagrees with you a racist and you seem to know how everyone else thinks.
Since you are not a repub, and since you dont know how everyone else thinks, dont presume to speak for anyone else, except yourself.

Or are you gonna deny that these are your words...

Quote:
You Repugs, whose designated candidate, MCCain, a "born" racist, that sold out other POW's, wants an America to revert back to the "bad old days" of separate and unequal. I was NOT moved at seeing him in Memphis, when he was one of the main deterrents, to making the King Holiday, a reality. All you racists, posting against an accomplished Black, taking part, as is his right to do so, will get what you wish for, is all I can say! FLAME away, as usual, but you can KISS me where the SUN, don't shine!

I call it the way I see and it and unless you know something I don't prove that he isn't! Cool
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2008 09:39 pm
teenyboone wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Divided Dems not only can "boost" McCain, they are.

If there wasn't an ongoing battle in the Dem Party, McCain would not have the luxury of starting his national campaign with a "bio tour." The great thing about this opening move is that while the press is far to jaded (or smart depending on your point of view) to cover it in depth, he is the GOP standard bearer, and therefore they have to report on him nightly. Since he has such a great bio, unless he makes a stupid comment, all they can report on is "John McCain and his heroic bio."

The Dems understand this which is why all of their spokespersons have been taking direct shots at McCain and especially on todays morning news shows.

Meanwhile Hillary and Obama keep duking it out, and we can look forward to this spectacle for at least another two months -- that's a lot of time in a campaign.

I have to admit, that if I were a Democrat, I would be calling for Hillary to withdraw. There is no scenario where her continued campaign can improve Democrat's chance for winning in November: None, and let's face it, if you're a liberal either Hillary or Obama are better than McCain.

But...hell hath no fury like a feverish partisan who feels as if he or she has been screwed.

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...

See, God really is a conservative.


Unlike you, I see it different! McCain is a wishy-washy, cut from the same cloth partisan, as his predecessor Bush! Whoever comes out of the Democratic contest, I will vote for just to keep him out!

Since you are NOT a Democrat, as you say, please don't presume to speak for me or Democrats, in general, unless you know something, I don't and you DON'T! Cool


Unlike me, you make little sense and have veered miles from the thrust of this thread.

Although I like, admire and support McCain, I've not made a case for him winning the election in this thread, and I couldn't care less who you vote for. I've not presumed to speak for anyone, least of all you, and I cannot even begin to catalog all of the things I know that you obviously do not.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2008 12:41 am
McCain is a f***ing walking train wreck. He was on the air today saying how great things were in Iraq, when news broke in about mortar fire in the green zone. BTW seven US soldiers dided yesterdy and one today WHILE the mental defective was saying how life was "normal"in Iraq. The guy is either out of his mind or the worst kind of liar.

A third term for Bush. I wish. McCain is even more dangerous than Bush.

Of course, there ain't enough Dem infighing or election stealing to get this nutjob in the White House.

The Real McCain

John McCain's temper is well documented. He's called opponents and colleagues "shitheads," "assholes" and in at least one case "a ******* jerk."

But a new book on the presumptive Republican nominee will air perhaps the most shocking angry exchange to date.

The Real McCain by Cliff Schecter, which will arrive in bookstores next month, reports an angry exchange between McCain and his wife that happened in full view of aides and reporters during a 1992 campaign stop. An advance copy of the book was obtained by RAW STORY.

Three reporters from Arizona, on the condition of anonymity, also let me in on another incident involving McCain's intemperateness. In his 1992 Senate bid, McCain was joined on the campaign trail by his wife, Cindy, as well as campaign aide Doug Cole and consultant Wes Gullett. At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you ****." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day. If elected president of the United States, McCain would have many long days.

The man who was known as "McNasty" in high school has erupted in foul-languaged tirades at political foes and congressional colleagues more-or-less throughout his career, and his quickness to anger has been an issue on the presidential campaign trail as evidence of his fury has surfaced.

As Schecter notes, McCain's rage is not limited to the political spectrum, and even his family cannot be spared the brute force of his anger.

Schecter, who also blogs at The Agonist, said in an interview the anecdote is "an early example of his uncontrollable temper." In the book he outlines several other examples of McCain losing his cool and raises the question of how that would affect a McCain presidency.

What should voters make of this pattern? In February 2008 Tim Russert succinctly described McCain on MSNBC's Morning Joe. A devilish grin spread from ear to ear as Russert, no McCain hater, leaned forward and spoke in a whisper, "He likes to fight." Russert got it right. But the big question isn't whether McCain likes to fight: it's who, when, and how.

The exchange between McCain and his wife was not reported anywhere when it happened, Schecter said (a LexisNexis database search confirms this). In 1992, McCain's mention in the national media revolved mostly around his involvement in the Keating Five scandal, and only local reporters closely followed his re-election bid.

McCain is well known for his rapport with the national media covering his presidential bid (he's jokingly referred to the press as "my base"), but Schecter said this incident was buried not out of fealty to the Arizona senator. Rather, it was uneasiness about how to get such a coarse exchange into a family newspaper, and he didn't fault the local press for not covering the incident.

"Members of the media are squeamish covering stuff like this so they let it go," Schecter told RAW STORY in an interview Monday. "Back in '92, when people use naughty words, [reporters] don't know as much what to do with it."

Much has changed since then. President Bush's reference to a New York Times reporter as a "major league asshole" was reported in at least 47 newspapers during the 2000 campaign, when the off-color remark was overheard, according to a database search. And more than a dozen newspapers have reported Dick Cheney's recommendation that Sen. Patrick Leahy "**** yourself."

McCain and his aides have brushed off suggestions that his temper could impede his ability to perform the sometimes-delicate tasks asked of a president. The candidate was asked about his legendary temper last week on "Fox News Sunday," where he cited his ability to work "across the aisle" while in the Senate.

"You can't scare people or intimidate them if you're going to reach agreement with your colleagues and your contemporaries And I've worked hard at that, and that's what the American people want," McCain said. " The second thing is if I lose my capacity for anger, then I shouldn't be president of the United States. ... When I see the waste and corruption in Washington, I get angry."

McCain's campaign did not return a call from RAW STORY seeking comment Monday morning.

Schecter says McCain's anger is much more than a passion for the issues. One can only imagine what would happen if McCain were to try to squeeze that temper into the tight confines of diplomacy.

"The public certainly has to know what this guy might do as president," Schecter says. Examples like the ones in his book "should worry people, quite frankly."
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2008 05:46 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
teenyboone wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Divided Dems not only can "boost" McCain, they are.

If there wasn't an ongoing battle in the Dem Party, McCain would not have the luxury of starting his national campaign with a "bio tour." The great thing about this opening move is that while the press is far to jaded (or smart depending on your point of view) to cover it in depth, he is the GOP standard bearer, and therefore they have to report on him nightly.

The Dems understand this which is why all of their spokespersons have been taking direct shots at McCain and especially on todays morning news shows.

Funny, how you support someone with PTSD's, that admitted he knows nothing about the economy. Has had an affair while married to his 2nd wife, so he's no paragon of virtue, either. Doesn't know a sunni from a shia and relies on a senator, whose former party sees him as a "turncoat"!

you said:

I've not presumed to speak for anyone, least of all you, and I cannot even begin to catalog all of the things I know that you obviously do not.

No, you can't, can you? Matter of fact, what you do know, you could fit in a thimble!



Cool
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2008 05:59 pm
It is not the question of Divided Dems
or the united states of America.
Not it is a question about experience, age, gender or colour of the skin.

After the last few barbaric behaviour of the few embedded corporate sponsored culpprtis
WE the HUMANS expect the legitimate citizens
of USA to pressurize the powers-that-be
to stop arrogance and uphold ethics and international law and order.
I still hope USA will come out of the gutter.
0 Replies
 
 

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