Pulling the No-Sex Card

Zanter,

have you talked to her and told her of your wants and needs, and your
concerns? If yes, how does she react to it?

If no, I would tell her that you have second thoughts about marriage
due to her behavior of withholding intimacy and sex. Since you have had
a failed marriage for the very same reason, you are very concerned
and apprehensive of engaging yourself in a situation where the very same
problem arises.

Playing house, buying a SUV and making wedding plans are only a small
part of what marriage is, and what marriage is supposed to be. If she
is that immature, she has a lot of growing up to do before she is ready
to be a wife.

Since divorce comes with a high price tag, it is all the more important,
to make sure your girlfriend is marrying you for the right reason.

I think she's playing games here too, but if she doesn't consider blowjobs to be sex, you may be on your way to what I and most of my buddies call simply "the dream." If that's the way it is, then my advice is not to look a gift horse in the mouth.

To answer your question, I wrote her an email expressing myself on Valentines day this year. I posted it below so you can read the words and feel the sincerity I have about this situation:


Email Written to X on 2/14:
****************************************************
X, I tried calling you tonight. It was pretty late, but I wanted to talk to you about some things. Since you didn't answer or was sleeping, I decided to write you to convey in words how I am feeling. I was pretty upset the other night when I left your place. I think some of it is from sexual frustration that I am feeling and the other from a fear of a past situation that I don't want to ever be in again. If I came across in a way that was hurtful to you, I am sorry. I was not trying to say any hurtful words or show actions that I don't care about you, because I do. I am so sensitive on the subject of sexuality, intimacy, etc because it is very important to me in a relationship. I've told you this since the beginning when I was visiting you in MN. I still feel the same way now.

X, to be honest with you, I am sexually frustrated. I want you. I want you mentally and also physically. I'm not gonna lie…your sexy to me and I can't get enough of you! When I say I am sexually frustrated, it's because I want to have sex with you. I think back on the times we messed around on a somewhat regular basis and I miss that. To me, being sexual with you "completes" me. I feel so relaxed, rejuvenated, accepted and loved by you. I do feel all these feelings with you, but when we are "one" sexually, for me it's a whole new level. I have never viewed you as a piece of meat that I just want to take a bite out off. You should know this from the way I look at you, touch and caress you. I think I've shown you on multiple occasions from words, actions and assets that I am here for you, for the long run. I want us to continue to build a strong foundation that can test the sands of time. I want us to have a future together and be as one.

To me, having sex before marriage will not affect my feelings or love for you. To me, things don't miraculously change after a marriage certificate. I am a 32 y/o man who has been married before and I know how it is, what I want and what I need to be happy. From my past situation with the x, she gave me a lot of broken promises before and during our dating and marital relationship that ultimately lead to our break up. To be honest with you, that is one thing that I am nervous about…broken promises. I am not saying that you have broken promises; it's just something that I am afraid off. I don't ever want to be in a situation like I was in my past. Just like you not wanting to ever be in a situation like your past again. That's why I always present myself to you in a way that caters to your needs and expectations. If I am missing something, then let me know and I will change things up quickly so you will be happy. I don't ever want to sell or present a broken promise to you as I don't believe in them.

I remember you saying something about birth control and not wanting to pay for it and be on it. I do not have a problem with wearing condoms. I will make sure that it is on even before any type of action takes place as I don't want a JR. running around just yet, but of course in the future

X, sexuality and sensuality is a need of mine. I am telling you this, straight up. I want and need it in our relationship. I've tried not having sex over the past couple months by just doing other things (e.g. breasts rubs) and for me, its fun, but becoming less and less to almost a non-existent level. Why am I saying all this now? Well, I said it before in an email to you in October about needs (intimacy, remember that?) that are important to me. But I think I am saying it again now because it's almost been a year since we've been together and I want to make sure we both are getting our needs and expectations met in our relationship. I think we both are on the same page as to were we want to go in life (e.g. goals of a home, family, kids, etc) but the steps (needs in relationship) to get there should not be overlooked. Not one of us should feel unappreciated or unloved and I think we should take the appropriate action to make sure that does not happen. This is why I wanted to communicate to you how I feel about you and why sex/intimacy is important to me.

X, you are the person I am with now, and who I want to be with in the future. When I gave you the ring for Christmas I was not just giving you a pretty thing to look at. To me, it was not just an ordinary gift. I wanted it to represent me and how I feel about you. Every time you look at it, I want it to show how much I love and care for you, because I do.

Hopefully, this email finds you well and you take the time to read the words as it was written with much sincerity…

****************************************************

Her response after reading it was very defensive and she took the approach as if I did not care about her and/or sex should not be everything within the relationship. She said, "I am sorry you are feeling this way, but I know how I feel about no sex before marriage.

She even went on to say (probably out of frustration), "I am releasing you so you can go out and have all the sex you want". That was basically it! Nothing like, "OK, I can try sex once a month". We had sex that next day (2/15) and before it happened she said, "this is the last time".

We have not had sex since then.

She still (to this day) makes comments about us and our future life together. I am so upset about where we have come to in our relationship. I thought I initially had a winner, the ONE! It is terrible things are turning out to be this way.

Zanter, I feel for you.
After having read the email you've written to her - which was excellent,
by the way - she should have realized that intimacy and sex is an important
part in your relationship, in any relationship for that matter.

Her reply should give you plenty of answers, Zanter. She even would
release you to have sex elsewhere, as long as you don't bother her with
it. There is absolutely no reason for her to withhold sex, especially when
she did have sexual relations with you already.

It is upsetting and frustrating, no doubt, but if you marry that girl, your
frustrations will be far greater than what you experience now. I'm afraid
it won't change.

I hope that the response was more than what was advertised, as otherwise it would be a cold and uncaring rebuff to an entreaty for understanding and cooperation. Who would want to be with someone capable of such behaviour?

UPDATE: I spoke with her last night about this topic and the response is the same. For moral reasons she does not want to have sex until she is married. I left very upset and she responded with this email:

*************************************************

You need to be honest with me about this. I cannot keep having this conversation with you. I know that this is a big deal to you and that you find it very important but what I cannot understand is your frustration with me, knowing the change to wait unitl marriage is for moral reasons - which we both decided was the right move. I wish I could give you that part of me right now but than I would be untrue to myself. Now you need to really dig deep with yourself and figure out if its me you love and trust or is it something that looked good on paper when you met me? Is there someone else? I don't know what to think anymore. Its starting to feel like I am only worth your time, happiness and love if we have sex. Honestly, I see the pain in your eyes if you don't get some and being with me just isn't good enough anymore. That is a really harsh feeling. I wish I could see inside your brain. I keep asking you to open up and trust me but you are such a closed book. It takes times like this for you to walk out and get so mad instead of talking with me prior. I am a person that sacrificed a lot personally to be down here near you and I just wish you would open up and be able to put trust in this OR let me go. Either way, I don't want to continue being the only one to be able to say the word marriage in a positive way - you always refer to marriage as " Im not going to be in a marriage like before". How is that suppose to make me feel everytime you say that. I just don't feel like I know you like how I thought I did. It hurt me to hear you say some of those things last night - you want a girlfriend to have sex with and grow with. In the old days men would make an honest women by marrying them not putting pressure of his happiness on her putting out or not. Im not pushing marriage but its like you are just so gun ho on having sex be part of a dating relationship and if its not there now then it will never be.

I really do not know what to say. I am speechless and hurt all at the same time. I just wish I understood you more and if you are really in this relationship for the long haul and can put trust in me and us or not. Just let me know one way or another.

**************************************************

Thoughts?

You don't want me to give you an honest opinion, trust me, but I will
say this much: if she had played the no-sex-until-marriage card right
from the start, then yes, she would have sounded believable, but
she truly has no reason to NOT have sex prior to marriage, as the
religious reasons blew out the window when she was having an intimate
relationship with you for 4 months.

She sounds very immature and her reasoning has no merit. Sorry to say!

Women are almost always emotionally honest. You should read the words but not pay much attention to them, read for emotional content. what do you get?

as Calamity J points out, if you do the words, logically she does not have any argument.

I feel for ya and am the same position.

Just last week my girlfriend of 3 years went off to a church retreat. She came back feeling revived. Every since coming back though she has being pulling the, "I'll pray about", in every situation imaginable. Don't get me wrong, that is great, I am sorry to say I am not at that level just yet. (I'm 22, she is 23)

Needless to say that other night I was in the mood, denied. Headed to the driving range today and hit a few, driving home she call's. Some how sex was brought up and I sadly did say something semi immature like, "Yea I guess sex is over for us now too". She basically said it was until marriage and that she come to the realization that if I can't deal with it then maybe we are just not meant to be. That little end bit should never even been said in any situation just do to that fact of what all it could be. You don't love me, you don't need me, etc..

She has had several previous relationships. She was actually my first sexual relationship. I agree, if she said not sex until marriage at the start, its fine then, but your's or mine never did. You guys are right on it being one of 3 things: games, test, or real religious rebirth. I got the 3rd. It just sucks knowing that you had 3 years of interaction and all of the sudden it has to stop, with a small threat tossed into the mix...um ok type idea sadly does arise in my mind.

I told her when we were friends that I would not get married until I have graduated from college to have a secure start. Some how she things this will change I guess.

Basically, I just wanted to tell you my story to show your not alone. I must admit, that is awesome you have stayed by her side and agreed to something you knew would be hard for you, that my friend is love.

Comparing the two emails, I gather you are much more mature then her. Her email just sounds, sounds like my girlfriend for one, but sounds unsure of why she is doing it. She really needs to open her mind up and hear you out.

My whole situation is fresh and could end tonight, never know. What just pissed me off about this whole thing is her attitude and her not understanding the guys side and have difficult it is to actually stop something of that nature. Guys are horny by nature, sure so are women but they just don't realize our level.

All I said say is I applaud you lasting so long after already having a sexual relationship. You love this girl is sounds like and are willing to go the extra mile. Some of your buddys might say they would have jumped ship but I have respect for you staying on so long and giving it a shot.

Ending sex in a health sexual relationship is not good most of the time guys. Someone is most likely going to be against it. This will most likely lead to cheating. Men cheat for 2 reasons, woman for one imo. Men: 2 heads, not happy. Women: Just not happy with the relationship. But that is just my opinion.

The final decision is up to you now. You have expressed your concerns maturely, logically, emontionally, and respectfully. If she can not understand the needs of you and at the very least calmly discuss it with you to attempt to understand without attacking you, I do not know what to say bud .



Sorry for so long guys. Mine is fresh and am a little on edge. I apologize. And Yes some of my opinions are incorrect and not logical at the moment heh.

Hello 04jstewa, and welcome to a2k.

Well, you're only 22 years old and this was/is your very first sexual
experience, and I hope there are many more to come, which means
that you should not tie yourself down with the very first person you
meet, and you certainly should get married that young either.

Go out and explore the world and what it has to offer!

Oh . . . this is getting ridiculous!! You are groveling . . . . it's very unbecoming to a man. And a big turnoff.

She's pouting. She doesn't like the "pressure" of having to have sex with you. She wants it on her terms, which today, means marriage. She wants to get married; you want to get laid.

You two are worlds apart, right now.

Tiime for a breather. Tell her you two need some time apart. Offer her time to figure this out, but tell her you ARE going to go out with other girls. (Not just for sex, but to develop relationships. If it leads to sex, then so be it. This scene seems to meet your needs. In the meantime, know that she is looking for a husband and that's her goal, right now.So if she starts to date, she could find herself with someone who WILL marry her.)

This is just killing me!

I've just finished maintaining, on another forum, that women are not as manipulative as this. Now I will have to eat my words.

Until she had sex with you on 15/2 it was just barely possible that she was being genuine in her religious hesitations and beliefs.

But to do something she considers wrong because she feels you moving away and then say "Thats the last time."...?

Give me a break! I think she is coldly playing you.

Remain in contact if you really like this woman but back off and spend time with other female friends.

I wouldn't be surprised if she then initiates sex.

That would give you the pattern to expect in any future marriage.

You really do know how to strut that stuff (strut that stuff)
You really do know how to act tough (act tough)
Your body's just like a centerfold
A fantasy (a fantasy), anyone would want to hold

CHORUS:
Stop using Sex As A Weapon
Stop using Sex As A Weapon
You know you're already my obsession
Stop (stop) using Sex As A Weapon
Love is more than a one way reflection
Stop (stop) using Sex As A Weapon

With looks that kill and a mind that's twisted (twisted)
I don't know why I can't resist it (resist it)
I tell myself look the other way (other way)
When you want me to (when you want me to)
I, I always stay

CHORUS

You play with desire like it was a toy (toy)
How much affection can you destroy?
You wrap my heart around your little finger
Sex, Sex, Sex, Sex, Sex, Sex, Sex As A Weapon

Stop using Sex As A Weapon
Stop using Sex

CHORUS

Stop using Sex As A Weapon
Stop using Sex As A Weapon
Stop using Sex
Stop using Sex As A Weapon
Stop using Sex (stop using sex, stop using sex)
Sex As A Weapon, As A Weapon

WOW!!

Well, she's right about one thing. She really shouldn't be having sex, especially without protection!.

I'm sorry you have had to go through this. Your email was great. Her response told you what you need to know.

She's pushing for marriage and using sex to try and get it, and the saddest thing of all is that she isn't even ready for marriage. If you were to marry her, it would be pure hell.

So you get nothing, and she is totally unreasonable and sees it as ok to use your needs and desires against you to try and get what she wants.

What is there to stay for? Not sex. Not a trusting relationship. Not even the woman you thought you knew.

It's done. She's given up on her end of the relationship. Game over. It takes two.

Well, its been a while since I posted here, so I wanted to give an update to this saga. It's now over between us. This conflict could not be resolved. Ever since I told her my concern about sex and not wanting to wait for marriage we have been having arguments and both pulling away from each other.

At one point she did agree to start having sex again. We did it for about 2 weeks and then she told me that the guilt feeling would just not go away. She was feeling that she was putting me over God and her morals. I told her that I could not do it anymore, as I have been frustrated for over 6+ months of not having sex. Anyhow, I told her that we are on two different ends of the boat and don't see a resolution.

When I returned home from a business trip last week, she apparently came by and got all of her stuff out of my house. I tried to call her once, but she has not called me back. She has not even called me to make sure I am safe and/or made it back from my trip.

I hate that because it was no official, "closure" between us after being together for over 1 year and 4 months. I guess that's the way she handles breakups. It just sucks that it ended like this. Like I said before, I really cared about this girl, but based off feedback here and my personal thoughts I knew that in the long run it would not work. I am a sexual person and I want to experience that in a committed dating relationship, as well as the person I marry one day.

So anyhow, just wanted to thank everyone for their feedback on my situation and helping me understand and look at it from different perspectives.

Have fun while you're young; all glory is fleeting.

Zanter, a break-up is always emotionally draining and you will feel the
loss for quite some time, I am sorry. On the other hand, the way she handled the situation should give you an indication what could have been
the scenario down the road after you'd married her. Besides the emotional frustration and turmoil, you probably would have some financial difficulties as well.