55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 12:59 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

If your schooling was so excellent, why can't you write an English sentence with any consistency? Why do you know nothing about history? Why can't you understand the political system? Why does logic escape you?

My two older kids went to a Montessori elementary school. In fifth grade, they studied how a bill becomes law. My daughter's class researched drilling for oil in the ANWAR. The kids found such drilling a threat to the environment and, on a trip to DC, presented their findings to Senators Kennedy and Kerry.

A good example of being taught stuff that may be wrong. Not the purpose of education, pom. Did the kids go to oil industry experts to collect any information on ANWR? If not, their study was not complete and accurate.
Quote:

My ex-husband may be your age: he was born in 1942. Educated in Massachusetts, Florida and Maine, he attended public schools with the exception of two years at a prep school in Maine. He never had a course in government nor in economics. I consider the education he received inferior to mine.
By virtue of what? Because he was not as liberal as you?

Quote:
And, I was never told by you that you are married. I am surprised. It is hard to imagine a woman putting up with the crankiness you exhibit here.
Not surprising you would have the wrong impression. First of all, what you interpret as crankiness is total honesty and a freedom to declare to you what you may disagree with, but what I believe is correct. I am not here to be liked, I am here to express what I consider to be right and correct, and to provide evidence of it. I am not going to buy into some bogus belief simply because everybody else or some other people may believe it. Example, if all evidence that I see and understand from history indicates the Nazis align more with what is now considered to be leftist idealogy, then that is what I am going to say. I am not going to simply spout out what some Berkeley liberal might wish I would say on that subject, so that his or her chosen idealogy is not held responsible for one of the darkest chapters in world history.

pom, unless we have the courage to face the truth of history and of political idealogies, we are destined to repeat the mistakes of the past. One of my reasons for being on this forum is to try to remind people of the error of their beliefs if they are wrong, and the beauties and virtues of certain principles that we can hold dear, that will bring us the most favorable results.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 01:33 pm
@okie,
I will cite just one example. Numerous ones could be used.

Favoring and even advocating abortion, and wanting the public to pay for it for anyone, that is not a centrist position, no way on this earth, pom. It is extreme, very extreme.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 01:37 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Why doesn't the word anarchism appear twice because conservatism in its most extreme form contradicts the notion of government? Furthermore, why would you, of all people, put anarchy on the left side of your equation?

... on the left side ... !?

………………~~~~~~~~!??!??! ~~~~~~
………………~~~~~~~~
(O|O) ~~~~
………………..~~~~.~~
( ~o~ ) ~~~~
_________________<>_______________________




LEFTISM~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.[/white]RIGHTISM
communism nazism fascism socialism statism democratism conservatism libertarianism anarchism


Contemporary conservatives are striving to conserve:
our Liberty under the Law,
our Constitutional Government, and
our Capitalist Economy.

ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 03:10 pm
Quote:
DISCLOSE ACT back on the calendar...

We must stop this 1st Amendment killing legislation. They are trying to stop our voices! ...

We have received information from Capitol Hill regarding the "Disclose Act" and we must work to defeat this bill. The vote is expected to take place tonight or tomorrow. We encourage you to find out more information about the DISCLOSE Act in the links below.

On April 29, 2010, Congressman Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) introduced H.R. 5175, the Democracy is Strengthened by Casting Light on Spending in Elections (DISCLOSE) Act. The bill is a direct response to Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (McCain- Feingold) - a First Amendment victory in which the Supreme Court overturned the prohibition on corporations and unions using treasury funds for independent expenditures supporting or opposing political candidates at any time of the year. Simply put, the DISCLOSE Act will limit the political speech that was protected and encouraged by Citizens United.

Speaker Pelosi and the House Majority Leadership are making it a priority to pass this bill. This bill is designed to take away the influence of Tea Party and other conservative groups in the upcoming November election. We feel like this bill will be successfully challenged in the courts, but the ruling will not come before the November election.

An exemption has been carved out for the Labor Unions and other leftist advocacy groups. The NRA was also exempted so they would not actively oppose it.

Roll Call Magazine reports today that they have carved out even deeper exemptions in order to assure passage and we believe it clearly shows the intent of the bill is to diminish the effectiveness of Tea Party groups and other newer conservative advocacy groups.

"Facing wide-ranging blowback from an exemption tailored for the National Rifle Association, House Democratic leaders have decided to expand the carve-out from disclosure requirements in a campaign finance measure they are trying to pass this week.

The new standard lowers the membership requirement for outside groups from 1 million members to 500,000. Those groups would still need to have members in 50 states, have existed for 10 years and can accept no more than 15 percent of their funding from corporate or union sources. The broader bill, called the DISCLOSE Act, comes in response to the controversial Supreme Court decision in January that struck down limits on corporate and union spending in elections. The bill would force groups participating in elections to name their top donors, among other changes."
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 09:28 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:
... on the left side ... !?

ican, it appears pom can't read or is partially blind, or doesn't know which is left and right.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 09:38 pm
@okie,
You miserable little $%8&head. When someone as incompetent as you are and as creepy and as Mr. Burns like as you are puts words into my mouth, rather, my fingertips because this was typed, it angers me beyond belief.

Quote:
Your statement actually does demonstrate the arrogance of liberals, you think your opinions are the only correct ones and that you are the moderate and center of the road position, which I believe is so far wrong as to be laughable


I NEVER SAID THAT, YOU MISERABLE CREEP.

It is your 4th grade reading level coming to the fore.

Idiot.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 09:39 pm
@okie,
Quote:
One of the reasons I believe I am correct on this is the fact that I grew up in a Democrat household and we talked politics virtually every day.


You can't even remember that the median is just one type of average. You are a cloaca.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 09:41 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Nevertheless, I believe my experience deserves very serious consideration as being very valid for what it was.


When your IQ has two digits, then and only then, will your experience be granted any respect. When you can demonstrate that your actually had a conversation with a living human being, then your imaginary experience will be considered valid.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 09:44 pm
@okie,
Quote:
By virtue of what? Because he was not as liberal as you?


I am certain if you were to consult the phone book for your community, you would find tutors who specialize in adult education and in remedial reading. I wrote exactly why my ex's education was inferior to mine and you blocked off and quoted the reason in your usual apples and oranges terms.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 09:45 pm
@okie,
Quote:
I am not here to be liked


Obviously, because you only post on political threads. You are here to be a bully.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 10:17 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Example, if all evidence that I see and understand from history indicates the Nazis align more with what is now considered to be leftist idealogy, then that is what I am going to say.



Listen, you dishonest, delusional, uneducated bigot, what you "see and understand" is unique to you. Very few others see and understand what you do. Perhaps, you have a drinking problem.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 10:19 pm
I posted one of the planks of the Texas GOP platform.

Another is a proposal to reinstate corporal punishment in public schools.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 06:48 am
While much is being made of some Christians labeling the Gulf Oil SPill as God's vengeance upon man, Dr. Russell Moore, dean of the School of Theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, KY, told NPR's Audie Cornish this morning, "There is nothing conservative -- and certainly nothing evangelical -- about a laissez-faire view of a lack of government regulation."

Dr. Moore continued with an explanation of how all men sin and, therefore, all men should be held accountable.

"Simply trusting corporations to about their business without polluting the water streams and without destroying ecosystems is really a naive and utopian view of human nature. It's not a Christian view of human nature."

Moore recognizes that not all Christians and certainly not all evangelicals agree with him.

"There are some evangelicals, of course, who hold to a much more libertarian understanding of the relationship between government and protecting natural resources, but I think for the most part, evangelicals are ready to have a conversation about protecting the Creation."

Moore thinks that being pulled toward the sarah palin view and toward an environmentally friendly point of view is a sign that, "we're thinking through issues from a biblical point of view, rather than from a purely political point of view."
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 01:19 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

Quote:
Example, if all evidence that I see and understand from history indicates the Nazis align more with what is now considered to be leftist idealogy, then that is what I am going to say.



Listen, you dishonest, delusional, uneducated bigot, what you "see and understand" is unique to you. Very few others see and understand what you do. Perhaps, you have a drinking problem.

I am a teetotaler, sorry to disappoint you. If you had any decency, you would apologize. How about it?

On the thread, "What Produces Ruthless Dictators," I plainly provided proof of the leftist nature of the Nazi 25 points, and I would be glad to do so again for anyone if they care to see the proof of it.
http://able2know.org/topic/66117-2
It can pretty well be summed up by this principle of the Nazi 25 points. Here it is:
"COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD"
Pretty much everything else in the 25 points follow that principle, and there is no doubt that this is what Hitler believed, at least no doubt among anyone capable of reasoning. And there is little doubt that such a principle is a leftist principle, not far different than what Marxism or communism follows.

It is so obvious, and it has been explained numerous times, but Nazism is simply a form of national socialism. Clearly, socialism is a left leaning political system, absolutely no doubt, and Nazism was a fairly extreme form of it, as applied in a nationalistic way. I have a hard time understanding why any intelligent person would have any trouble understanding this. The only reason, and it makes much sense, Leftists will try to spin anything that tends to implicate their beliefs as having failed, and this is a huge example of it as having failed, so they have tried to make the case that Hitler was an extreme rightee of some kind. But when you look at his policies and beliefs, there is absolutely no way he is in any way similar to a conservative as we know them today, no way, not even close.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 01:41 pm
Quote:
From the Desk of Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton:
Elena Kagan — Obama’s Political Operative on the Supreme Court?

Confirmation hearings for Obama Supreme Court pick Elena Kagan are set to begin on Monday and the debate over her nomination is about to hit fever pitch. According to the Associated Press:

Opponents and backers of President Barack Obama’s choice to replace retiring Justice John Paul Stevens stepped up their efforts with Senate Judiciary Committee hearings on Kagan’s less than a week away. Republicans are increasingly under pressure from conservative activists to oppose Kagan or block a vote to confirm her, while the White House is working with Democrats to dispel doubts that could mar her so-far smooth path to a lifetime spot on the nation’s highest court.

Of course, we already know Kagan is a liberal activist with a thin resume, little legal experience and no judicial experience. But what other doubts might the White House need dispel?

Well, let’s start with documents released by the Department of Defense that clearly show Kagan’s unlawful mistreatment of our nation’s military while she served as Dean of Harvard Law School. Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) called attention to these outrageous documents in a statement earlier this week.

As you may recall, Kagan kicked military recruiters off the campus of Harvard Law School, allegedly in opposition to the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy (a policy crafted by her former boss President Bill Clinton). The Obama White House has claimed from the beginning that Kagan followed the law and did what she could to accommodate the U.S. military. But the documents tell a different story.

According to Sessions: “The documents show that Ms. Kagan reversed Harvard’s policy, without basis or notice, in order to block the access of recruiters—not to accommodate them. They show that she defied federal law, forcing the Department of Defense use [sic] its legal authority to bring Harvard into compliance. They show that she did not ensure access to military careers, but that the Office of Career Services prevented the military from even posting a job opening. They show that she sanctioned a demeaning, second-class entry system for the military that the Department of Defense made clear was intolerable.”

And then there’s this related piece from columnist and president of the Center for Security Policy Frank Gaffney. Gaffney notes that Harvard Law School accepted $20 million from members of the Saudi Royal Family to establish a Center for Islamic Studies and Sharia Law while Kagan served as Dean.

For those who practice it, Sharia, known as the “path” in Arabic, is a set of controversial laws that guide all aspects of Muslim life. Some interpretations have been used to justify cruel punishments such as amputation, female genital mutilation and stoning. Homosexuality, by the way, is punishable by death or flogging under Sharia law, which is an interesting contradiction to note regarding Ms. Kagan. While she was busy fighting for gay rights in the military she was openly courting a brand of radical Muslim law that condones the execution of homosexuals.

There were other “doubts” regarding Ms. Kagan raised in the press this week. Say, for example, the video that surfaced this week showing Kagan in 2006 praising retired Judge Aharon Barak during a ceremony at Harvard when she was Dean of the Harvard Law School. Judge Barak, described by Judge Robert Bork as perhaps “the worst judge on the planet,” was a radical activist during his time on the court.

In fact, here’s what he wrote in his 2006 book The Judge in a Democracy: "a good judge is a judge who, within the bounds of legitimate possibilities, makes law that, more than other law he is authorized to make, best bridges the gap between law and society and best protects the constitution and its values.” He also says that judges should go "beyond actually deciding the dispute."
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  3  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 02:55 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

Listen, you dishonest, delusional, uneducated bigot, what you "see and understand" is unique to you. Very few others see and understand what you do. Perhaps, you have a drinking problem.

The posts on this thread are so thoughtful.
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 03:43 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
"the Supreme Court overturned the prohibition on corporations and unions using treasury funds for independent expenditures supporting or opposing political candidates at any time of the year."


...and rightly so. So in their collective 'wisdom' what does the Democratic Party in the House do? Well, an end around attempt to pass another Bill in defiance of SCOTUS’s effort to restore political free speech that, while including targeted institutions and groups, makes sure that...
Quote:
An exemption has been carved out for the Labor Unions and other leftist advocacy groups. The NRA was also exempted so they would not actively oppose it.


But are the Dems so dense that they cannot see the obvious unconstitutionality of this Bill? Ahhhh…, but there is a madness to their method so that:
Quote:
Speaker Pelosi and the House Majority Leadership are making it a priority to pass this bill.
But what possible reason can such esteemed elected representatives of American citizens possibly have in denying any group a chance of voicing their political opinion? The author of the text, still able to voice an opinion (at least for now), has the politicians’ number:
Quote:
This bill is designed to take away the influence of Tea Party and other conservative groups in the upcoming November election. We feel like this bill will be successfully challenged in the courts, but the ruling will not come before the November election.


Amazingly, due to their haste the Social Democrats’ original version of this bill left out some of their buddies, the Sierra Club! This is kind’o like the original version of Obama Care leaving congressional staffers twisting in the, Obama mandated, health care wind. But such is the 'sausage making' of present day legislative efforts! We have further good news from our financial guru Sen. Chris Dodd who, after 'working' till all hours in the morning of 6/25/10, offered this bit of bloviation (teary eyed, no less) about the newly formed financial deform bill:
Quote:
"It's a great moment. I'm proud to have been here, No one will know until this is actually in place how it works. But we believe we've done something that has been needed for a long time. It took a crisis to bring us to the point where we could actually get this job done." *
What is it with these Dems in Congress that feel the need to pass bills before they can understand their impact or even, Pelosi-like, actually don't "know what is in them" but want us to "believe", somehow, that they are “needed” by the American nation? Are there legislative elves cloistered in those smoke filled Democratic back rooms furiously working through the night that refuse to give up their wonderfully secret solutions to America’s problems? How much or with what are they reimbursed for their mysterious efforts? Are they covered on Obamacare also ? Have they remembered to include all the correct ‘carve outs’ for the politicians’ fair haired factions?

Oh what a tangled web we weave when, at first, we practice to deceive!(WS)

James Madison, in his Federalist arguments for acceptance of our Constitution and its prescribed federal republican form of government, had some thoughts. However, his thoughts were that when it came to "faction", or in today's parlance: "special interests" the more factions the less danger to the Union and the safer individual liberties would become. But Madisonian checks on factions presupposed free political speech…for every individual and faction. Carving out or "expand[ing] the carve-out from disclosure requirements in a campaign finance measure” involved in free speech regulation would be an anathema to Madison. Why not let every faction (corp., union, Boy Scouts of America, ACLU, Heritage Foundation, etc) have their say and let the American citizen (after viewing proper financial disclosure) make an informed decision?

Why not indeed? Well, of course, this is why not:
Quote:
Roll Call Magazine reports today that they have carved out even deeper exemptions in order to assure passage and we believe it clearly shows the intent of the bill is to diminish the effectiveness of Tea Party groups and other newer conservative advocacy groups.
You see, the Disclose Act is not about protecting Americans from evil groups per se, it is about protecting Democratic politicians from those they perceive as 'evil groups' that simply believe something contrary to their (Dems) factional ideology of self preservation at all costs. Its about Moral Hazard and the Dems trying to squirm out from under the consequences of their legislative actions. However, more people are attentive now then in 2008 to the Dems legislative efforts and the effectiveness of the leader of their party. Additionally, Democratic midwifery of legislation is not going unnoticed, November is fast approaching, and the Democratic party, it would seem, is in almost panick mode.

* http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/25/AR2010062500675_pf.html

JM
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 06:30 pm
@JamesMorrison,
JM, George Soros and his intricate web of radical leftist organizations are okay, but everyday American taxpayers, decent citizens, business owners and the like, like the Tea Partiers, they must be stopped.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 06:33 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

plainoldme wrote:

Listen, you dishonest, delusional, uneducated bigot, what you "see and understand" is unique to you. Very few others see and understand what you do. Perhaps, you have a drinking problem.

The posts on this thread are so thoughtful.

At least you should know by now who you have aligned yourself with out there, rjb, by voting for and supporting Democrats. I hope it makes you proud.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 07:03 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

Quote:
Example, if all evidence that I see and understand from history indicates the Nazis align more with what is now considered to be leftist idealogy, then that is what I am going to say.

Listen, you dishonest, delusional, uneducated bigot, what you "see and understand" is unique to you. Very few others see and understand what you do. Perhaps, you have a drinking problem.

pom, I wonder if you might find the following youtube in regard to how Hitler and Stalin interacted as fellow Leftists. I just recently discovered it on the net, and so this is the first time I've posted it. It packs a pretty hard punch at Hitler and the Soviets as fellow Leftists, and so it would not be surprising to hear Leftists dismiss it as phony or fictitious, but I think it would not be surprising if it is extemely close to the reality of history. In my view, it would not at all be inconsistent with the realities of Leftism and with the personalities involved.

 

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