55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 07:50 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
” It has been claimed by various people including President Jack Kennedy that Americans have a legal right to government funded health care. What is the evidence that supports this claim?’


Your question is apt. No evidence I have seen does so. Many people think they possess all kinds of 'rights' but you and I know that the U.S. Constitution and the Declaration of Independence grants only the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But these are granted only to individuals and not to the states, the federal government and certainly not to entities such as the EPA or any such governmental agency. But why would anyone with even a light reading of the Constitution, let alone a law degree, feel that individual Americans have such a specific ‘right’?

The fact that many people feel otherwise is just a sad indication of how far America has strayed from its original principles. Perhaps, they confuse an inalienable ‘right’ with that of a personal animalistic ‘want’ or ‘need”. We and, apparently, a small majority of American voters have continued to fight for conservative principles that are based entirely on the rights of individual American citizens to take responsibility for ourselves and our families. Indeed, for this we are labeled selfish and uncaring time and time again. We are not, for we claim only our individual rights and not those of others.

The rights of individuals', of which the founders spoke, were anchored in divinity. With all due respect, I must disagree, for such reasoning can be rejected by those who would deny such divine authority, whatever their reasons. Basically, individual rights are firmly rooted in the nature of reality and of mankind itself. The world of limited resources we know demands that a man, like all such creatures, must think and make decisions in his own best interest. The fact is that only the individual can so best decide how to make his way in such a reality. Those that deny this deny the very reality in which they are immersed.

Many have become confused about the concept of rights. However, there is only one right and that is an individual’s right to pursue the only life that reality allows him. It is from this that all individual rights spring. Any invented right towards this or that that ‘thing’ that infringes upon an other’s individual's rights is immoral and unethical. (Society or the collective have no rights. These entities are sometime seen as having a right to police or judicially restrain individuals but this community action, law and order if you will, is to protect and not to supplant individual rights.) But even that original right does not guarantee one's life. The essence of the founding American documents that protect individual rights does not protect or guarantee an object whether that is a good job, a chicken in every pot, happiness, or even life itself. Those documents only recognize the individual right of pursuit of such things and not the actual things themselves. This right is found in the action towards and pursuit of and not the actual object itself. It is from this guaranteed and protected action that the right of liberty and the pursuit of happiness evolve. Because of the nature of our real world and that of man himself (not living by bread alone) he must be free (liberty) to pursue his best result and to flourish (happiness).

Therefore JFK was wrong. The claim of any object as a right, whether that is personal health care, a good paying job, an education or a pound of magical jelly beans delivered on one’s birthday, is only just that: a claim. JFK’s claim is denied by the founder’s intent and moral premise embodied by our founding documents. The only inalienable rights enumerated are individual rights of action not object.

The whole purpose of State and Federal governments is to protect the individual rights of those very citizens that legitimize those governments’ very existence. To accomplish this the governments are given limited powers of taxation to collect revenues in furtherance of those responsibilities to the people such as defensive, judicial, and constabulary functions that maintain the sovereignty of the Union and state governments. The purpose of the Constitution, however, is to also ensure that such governments, or their organs, do not encroach upon the individual rights of citizens, those rights being the sole cause and legitimacy of the government initially.

Progressives would have us believe that our governments have, somehow, a further mandate to protect citizens (and now, apparently, corporations) from the consequences of their decisions. We see this in such every day regulations to mandate the space between deck railings and coffee temperature (and Trans Fats )in restaurants and those more sweeping (and doubtful) as EPA regulations towards carbon “footprints”, guaranteed mental health benefits, and now mandated purchases of specific products (ethanol for fuel and comprehensive health care) and the refusal of those in government to let free market forces play out (GM/Chrysler “Bankruptcies”). The constitution reveals no such governmental responsibility towards individual personal (or corporate) guardianship .

What lies ahead is a binary decision. Americans must decide to be individuals responsible for and enjoying their own individual lives or they must let the nanny state make more and more decisions giving them less and less control over their own lives.

But here’s the thing: if Americans choose the latter, many economists point out that the rosy world progressive’s continually promise is unsustainable. At some point America will hit the wall of economic reality where government programs will have to be scaled back (Obamacare already is going to do this with the entitlement of Medicare). Is there a point in this progression where Americans will be so dependent upon Big Brother that they will be unable to take care of themselves? If so, from what population will the ‘wise’ government draw its future employees?

JM
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 02:45 pm
@JamesMorrison,
James, your essay needs to be repeated as many times as it takes for those who think otherwise to face the true reality of the blessings of individual liberty for all of us.

Too many appear to think that their lives can be made better by limiting the liberty of those who benefit the most from their individual liberty. Limiting the liberty of some, limits the liberty of all. Maximizing the liberty of all, benefits all--some more than others.

Those who have benefited more than I have from their liberty have nonetheless benefitted me--and those I love--more than I would have benefitted had their benefits been forcefully redistributed to me. Forceful redistribution of wealth limits everyone's wealth more than what it would be if wealth had not been forcefully redistributed.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 12:25 am
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs437.snc3/25158_1213362823337_1506788459_30473626_972798_n.jpg

I want to laugh, but my amusement is eclipsed by the sober knowledge that this is too true.

Too true
K
O
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 10:44 am
@Diest TKO,
Your post, Diest TKO, conforms to Saul Alinsky's principles.
Saul Alinsky wrote:
The revolutionary’s purpose is to undermine the system by taking from the haves and giving it to the have-nots, and then see what happens;
Radicals should be political relativists and should take an agnostic view of means and ends;
The radical is not a reformer of the system but its would-be destroyer;
The most basic principle for radicals is lie to opponents and disarm them by pretending to be moderates and liberals;
The radical organizer does not have a fixed truth"truth to him is relative and changing; everything to him is relative and changing;
The issue is always the revolution;
The stated cause is never the real cause, but only an occasion to advance the real cause which is accumulation of power to make the revolution;
The radical is building his own kingdom, a kingdom of heaven on earth.

Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 10:45 am
@ican711nm,
His post has nothing to do with what you wrote at all.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 10:52 am
AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND -

Quote:
The Ryan Tax Plan: Higher Taxes for 90% of Americans, Less Revenue for the Government

Paul Ryan’s “budget roadmap” has terrified the GOP leadership, but thrilled conservative intellectuals with its calls for sharp cuts in Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, defense, and all other government programs combined with privatization of Medicare so that a larger share of your diminished benefit goes to for-profit insurance companies. Less widely discussed is the tax aspects of Ryan’s plan. As you would expect from a conservative plan, compared to Barack Obama’s tax ideas Ryan would raise less government revenue. This is why he needs sharp cuts in Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, defense, and all other government programs combined with privatization of Medicare so that a larger share of your diminished benefit goes to for-profit insurance companies.

The interesting thing, however, is that when the Center for Tax Justice (PDF) ran the numbers, they discovered that this isn’t the kind of tax cut that makes your taxes lower. On the contrary. Most Americans will pay higher taxes under Ryan’s plan than under Obama’s. Only the very richest will pay less. This table sums up the essence of the Ryan Ripoff:

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ryanplan-1.jpg

So give Ryan credit. It’s quite difficult to raise taxes on 90 percent of Americans while reducing overall tax revenue, but he’s shown enormous ingenuity in getting the job done. Remember that this is the top House GOP budget guy. If John Boehner becomes Speaker after the midterms, Ryan will be writing budgets for the new majority, presumably animated by the same moral principles that led him to this idea.


http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2010/03/the-ryan-tax-plan-higher-taxes-for-90-of-americans-less-revenue-for-the-government.php

The modern GOP is deeply and truly unserious about solving our problems today. The ONLY thing they care about is cutting taxes for the rich.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 11:05 am
I already addressed in the other thread how weak it is to respond to every post with the same thing, Ican. It is truly spamming the thread, and I'm going to start reporting you every time you do it.

Get your head out of your ass and start writing original responses to posts.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 11:12 am
My post had nothing to do with that at all. You just can't put together a cogent response to what my correspondent wrote, because the facts truly do outline the hollow nature of Republican promises these days regarding taxation.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 11:15 am
i wrote:
hey ican, why don't you just **** off and actually say something yourself
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 11:23 am
absolute serious question, do you suffer some kind of brain damage, or do you have some kind of OCD or aspergers?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 12:23 pm
My point, gentlemen, is that I think your posts are based on your and other's false opinions and sophistic arguments, and that these false opinions and sophistic arguments appear to be derived from those persons who are desciples of Saul Alinskiy--a person, who based on his writings, suffered severe mental illness for most of his life.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 12:25 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

My point, gentlemen, is that I think your posts are based on your and other's false opinions and sophistic arguments, and that these false opinions and sophistic arguments appear to be derived from those persons who are desciples of Saul Alinskiy--a person, who based on his writings, suffered severe mental illness for most of his life.


None of my opinions are based on anyone having anything to do with this Alinsky fellow; you are the only one who goes on and on about him. You used to do the same thing with Soros until you found a new boogeyman.

What more, you are responding to posts which make factual allegations and calling them 'opinion.' The piece I posted above about Ryan's budget increasing taxes on the vast majority of Americans, while reducing net federal receipts, is not an opinion piece. It is a factual piece. If you bothered to read it, you might understand that.

I'd love to hear your defense of the GOP budget which proposes to raise your taxes, Ican. I doubt you will offer one.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 12:25 pm
@ican711nm,
You have no point ican. You never have a point. You only spout nonsense. When you make obvious errors you don't correct them and then you post idiotic posts that you claim are corrections but are exactly the same as the post you claim you are correcting.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 01:38 pm
Quote:

http://www.house.gov/ryan/healthcare/index.htm
Paul Ryan Introduces The Patients’ Choice Act

My plan, The Patients' Choice Act, ensures universal, affordable health care for all Americans. Under The Patients' Choice Act, patients and doctors would control their health care decisions - not insurance companies and federal government bureaucrats. Equally important, my proposal does not raise taxes or increase government spending, but uses the money we currently spend more effectively.

Health Care News Releases (111th Congress)

Health Care Audio/Video, Speeches, Statements and Editorials (111th Congress)

Health Care issue paper

The Patients' Choice Act

Quote:

http://www.house.gov/ryan/PCA/PCA.htm
On May 20, 2009, U.S. Senators Tom Coburn, M.D. (R-OK) and Richard Burr (R-NC) and U.S. Representatives Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Devin Nunes (R-CA) introduced health care reform legislation that delivers on the shared principles of promoting universal access to quality, affordable health care, and does so without adding billions of dollars in new debt or taxes.

“The Patients’ Choice Act of 2009,” transforms health care in America by strengthening the relationship between the patient and the doctor; using choice and competition rather than rationing and restrictions to contain costs; and ensuring universal, affordable health care for all Americans. “The Patients’ Choice Act” promotes innovative, State-based solutions, along with fundamental reforms in the tax code, to give every American, regardless of employment status, age, or health condition, the ability and the resources to purchase health insurance. The comprehensive legislation includes concrete prevention and transparency initiatives, long overdue reforms to Medicare and Medicaid, investments in wellness programs and health IT, and more.

"As a practicing physician, I have seen first-hand how giving government more control over health care has failed to make health care more affordable and accessible. The American people deserve health care reform that will work, not another round of so-called reform that repeats the same failed policies of the past. Congress and the administration have the opportunity to pursue bold reform and a fresh start. The Patients’ Choice Act will provide every American with access to affordable health care without a tax increase, more debt and waiting lines,” Dr. Coburn said.

“The American health care system needs a complete transformation,” Senator Burr said. “The Patients’ Choice Act will finally enable Americans to own their health care instead of being trapped in the current system, which leaves people either uninsured, dependent on their employer, or forced into a government program. With a focus on prevention and wellness and covering those with pre-existing conditions, the Patients’ Choice Act will make health care affordable and accessible to all Americans.”

“Both parties need to step up to the plate with specific solutions to our nation’s health care crisis,” added Ryan. “The Patients’ Choice Act represents a clear alternative to those who seek to empower Washington at the expense of the individual, and I am hopeful that our efforts can help push Congress to enact a more sensible health care reform bill this year. The Patients’ Choice Act proves that America can have universal health care coverage without the government running our health care system.”

Nunes stated, “The American people deserve a health care system that is centered on their individual needs. Our bill will allow us to achieve this goal, while improving health outcomes, lowering cost and guaranteeing access to health care for every single American.”

Quote:

http://www.house.gov/ryan/PCA/52909USATed.htm
On health care, Republicans move beyond 'just say no'
When President Clinton proposed a sweeping reform of the health care system in 1993, Republicans in Congress mercilessly savaged it as socialized medicine. A dozen years later, Democrats returned the favor. When President Bush proposed a plan to shore up Social Security in part by creating private accounts, they denounced it as a sell-out to Wall Street.

In both cases the opposition was unified, ruthless " and totally lacking an alternative plan for addressing an important but politically thorny issue. So vital national interests were ignored in favor of convenient political demonization. The cardinal rule of mindless partisanship became: Don't stick your neck out.

This is why it's gratifying that congressional Republicans introduced a health care plan last week, even before the Obama administration and the Democratic majorities in Congress hashed out the details of their own proposal.

The Republican plan, a more detailed version of what Sen. John McCain ran on in his presidential campaign, is no cure-all, particularly for the problem of the 46 million uninsured. Nonetheless, it's a serious proposal that merits serious consideration. More important, the simple fact that it exists might improve chances that the parties will negotiate.

The GOP plan relies on the deceptively radical concept of replacing the current unlimited exemption from taxes of employer-provided insurance with a refundable tax credit of $5,700 for a family, or $2,300 for an individual, that people get regardless of whether their health coverage comes through an employer.

The idea is to introduce market forces into health care to hold down costs that are soaring unsustainably. Here's how it would work: The government would essentially pay for the first $5,700 in coverage for a family through the credit, and the family would pay the rest out of pocket. With the average family plan costing $12,700 now, that is a major cost. An employer could contribute, but with workers having to pay tax on the benefit, the employer might as well convert it to pay.

The upside is that having Americans pay for more of their medical needs with their own money would give people incentive to shop around when looking for insurance or having procedures done, putting pressure on providers to control costs.

The downside is that millions of people who are now covered through their employers could be left on their own.

The policy implications could be sweeping. And so might the political ones. On one level, this is just a group of staunch conservatives girding for a fight. Instead of having no plan, they have one that many Democrats, and potentially some moderate Republicans, see as a frontal assault on employer-sponsored health care.

But on another level, give the GOP credit. For all those who say the Republican Party is out of ideas, on the issue of health coverage, at least, its proposal is bolder than what the Democrats have offered an asset given the scale of the problem.

The Democratic approach " advanced by President Obama but still under construction in Congress " is to expand the system of employer-provided coverage through mandates and subsidies. Such a plan would insure more people, but its ability to control costs is dubious.

More radically, the Democrats are weighing whether to include an option for people to buy into a government-run health insurance plan that would compete with private insurers " a concept that is as intriguing and as controversial as the Republican plan. It would drive down costs through the government's purchasing power.

Each side dislikes and fears the other's most far-reaching ideas. Republicans say private insurers could not compete with the government plan's prices and so would slowly be driven out of business, leaving people with just one option. Democrats say the Republican plan would leave more people uninsured and reduce quality of care. At bottom, however, the choice illustrates the two possible approaches to controlling runaway medical costs: dramatically increase the power of market forces or use government purchasing power more extensively.

A few other things can have a modest effect on the costs of medical service. The "low-hanging fruit" includes mandating electronic record keeping, limiting malpractice suits, paying for outcomes instead of procedures, and identifying the procedures and institutions that have the highest success rates.

Ultimately, the budget-breaking costs of the nation's dysfunctional health care system are unlikely to be brought under control just by tweaking the existing one, as the Obama administration's plan envisions. The two political parties have identified more groundbreaking ideas, and they are not entirely incompatible.

So let the debate begin. The only unacceptable approach is the status quo.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 01:48 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:

http://www.altavista.com/web/results?itag=ody&q=Paul+Ryan+Health+Plan&kgs=0&kls=0

http://www.thehispanicconservative.com/vilifying-paul-ryan.html
Vilifying Paul Ryan to Divert Attention from H.R. 3200
Universal Health Care
Written by Aaron Rodriguez
Wednesday, 05 August 2009 13:42
Liberalism Requires a Villain

In the past few weeks, Congressional Democrats have implemented an old recycled strategy to help them pass H.R. 3200 - one of the most perilous bills ever written. As is often the case, liberal ideology cannot be successful without a villain. Liberalism needs a villain for two reasons; first, it needs to distract the public from focusing on issues liberals feel might hurt their ideological agenda. And second, it needs a villain to generate enough frustration to oppose the progress of conservatism. There are many examples of such vilification. For global warming, they vilify big industry polluters. For high gas prices, they vilify wealthy oil execs. For the housing market meltdown, they vilify greedy Wall Street. For the current recession, they vilify George Bush. And the most recent vilification is, well, the profitable insurance companies. Oh yes, expect wealthy insurance execs to testify before Congress concerning their record breaking profits.

Recent polling data by Rasmussen has indicated that H.R. 3200 (the Public Option) is not sitting well with the public. Albeit, those who oppose the bill are a slight majority (48% to 35%), the intensity at which they oppose the Public Option has created quite the stir across the nation. As a result, Bloggers on certain Wisconsin websites are already starting to vilify citizens who oppose the bill. Those who have practiced their constitutional right to let their voice be heard are now dubbed as an “angry right wing mob.” What these bloggers don’t seem to understand is that recent polling data indicates that 80% of those who have health care insurance rate their coverage as either good or excellent. And only 28% are willing to pay more taxes to extend health care coverage to everyone. Clearly, they are barking up the wrong tree.


Diverting Attention Away From the "Public Option"

In an Op-Ed entitled, “A Closer Look at Paul Ryan’s Health Plan”, Kelly Gallaher initiates the same tactic of creating a useful villain. Instead of publishing an investigative report on the abounding problems with Obama’s socialized “Public Option,” Gallaher decides to demonize Congressman Paul Ryan, the only Republican that has authored a substantial free market alternative to ObamaCare.

In the H.R. 3200, there are provisions that provide free health care coverage for illegals, gives the government access to our bank accounts, pays ACORN to recruit recipients for government health care, and restricts the type of treatments received by those in their “end of life” stage. These provisions don't even include how the bill virtually rapes doctors in terms of capping their income and restricting their ability to practice medicine. There are over a 1,000 pages to digest in the new proposal (enough to keep all of us busy), and instead of investigating the most important legislation to hit the halls of Congress in decades, Gallaher thinks it’s important to go after Paul Ryan’s free-market alternative. No agenda there, hey?

Vilifying Paul Ryan

Gallaher's biggest criticism of Ryan’s “Patient’s Choice Act” was that his refundable tax credit for individuals and families isn’t sufficient to cover the entire costs of current insurance rates. There are two problems this assumption. First, Ryan’s plan is not supposed to cover the entire costs of health care. If it were, it would create a serious mandate to increase our taxes and substantially add to our national budget deficit. This would defeat part of the reason why Congress is considering health care reform in the first place, that is to stop the trend of skyrocketing costs.

Her second assumption is that health care premiums will stay at the current rate even after Ryan’s alternative is implemented. Unlike the “Public Option”, the entire purpose of Ryan’s plan is to reduce the costs of health care. The Patient’s Choice Act, through refundable tax credits, empowers individuals to select plans that are individually crafted for them, which will reduce health care costs for individuals tremendously. This means that men in their 20’s will not have to pay for a plan that covers irrelevant tests “for them” like mammograms, hip replacements, pacemakers, and erectile dysfunction medications.

Kelly Gallaher complains further that Ryan’s plan would “significantly weaken employer-based coverage because individuals receive the credit and employers no longer have an incentive to contribute.” By making this statement, Gallaher demonstrates an ignorance of how employer insurance plans work. Employer plans are intended to meet the health care needs of a wide array of employees. By doing this, younger and healthier individuals are paying an inflated price for coverage they don’t need. By empowering individuals to break away from superfluous coverage and enter the insurance marketplace with refundable tax credits, insurance companies will have to compete for their investment and loyalty. A new market will open up to insurance companies that really haven’t existed before " at least not like this.

Now granted, Ryan's Patient's Choice Act will not be the end all to health care reform, but it's a significant start. By empowering individuals, rather than employers, it creates more consumers for insurance vendors to compete over. And the greater the supply of consumers, the lower the demand of product. Prices will decrease and product quality will increase as a result. Again, this will not be the answer for everything. There is a difference between government regulation and government control, and right now we need better regulation of the insurance industry. We need our representatives to engage in serious Tort Reform, and we need our citizenry to confront their Senators and Congressmen with vigilance.

The Party of No

And lastly, I think it's important to address an egregious comment Kelly Gallaher made about Congressman Paul Ryan. Gallaher said, "It is clear that my U.S. Representative, Paul Ryan, intends to play no role in helping to shape this historic legislation." This is exactly how liberals play the game. If you don't jump on board with what they consider to be real reform, then you are labeled an obstructionist or the "party of no" even though you have authored alternative health care reform legislation. In Paul Ryan's case, he's made a solid effort to get his plan some recognition in Congress, but Democrats have largely ignored him because they currently have the power to do so. Right now, it appears that Democrats are the "party of no" since they've repeatedly said no to Congressman Paul Ryan.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 01:50 pm
@ican711nm,
This might be more believable is Ryan's budget or health-care plan was supported by the House Republican leadership - but neither is. Why is that?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 02:06 pm
Currently the Republican leadership has neither rejected or accepted Ryan et al's proposal.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 02:14 pm
@ican711nm,
Oh.. so the Republican leadership has NO PLAN then...

What a surprise.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 02:23 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Currently the Republican leadership has neither rejected or accepted Ryan et al's proposal.


Seeing as Ryan is the designated budget guy for the House GOP, the fact that they (the leadership) have not accepted his proposal (it's been months) is an indication that they reject it.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 02:40 pm
Currently the Republican leadership has neither rejected or accepted Ryan et al's proposal. That means they have not rejected it. That means they have not yet accepted it. That means they are continuing to consider it.
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.42 seconds on 11/15/2024 at 03:46:10