55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 10:45 am
@JamesMorrison,
JM, Your link is about "economic freedom." When our economy has over 15 million people without jobs, most people have lost the economic freedom.

What's your point?
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 11:00 am
@cicerone imposter,
The implications of JM's point is obvious.

The Obama administration has been converting our Constitutional Governance System into an Executive Governance System.

The Obama administration has been converting our Capitalist Economic System into a Redistributionist Economic Sytem.

Total USA jobs increased by more than one million from December 2006 to December 2007.
Total USA jobs decreased by almost three million from December 2007 to December 2008.

But one of the consequences of the above Obama administration efforts is:

Total USA jobs decreased by more than five million from December 2008 to December 2009.

When our economy has over 15 million people without jobs, those 15 million people have lost their economic freedom.

While I am self-employed, most people are employed by someone else. Some of those people are my children and grandchildren, and eventually my great grandchildren. While none of those have yet lost their economic freedom, I expect they will if the Obama administration continues its current efforts.

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 11:02 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

Yesterday, AMA and AARP urged Democrats to continue pushing healthcare plan:

I wasn't aware that the AMA had been co-opted by leftist liberals, but I was fully aware that AARP had been, in fact I will refuse to ever belong to AARP or support them in any way until they change course with their politics.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 11:04 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

wandeljw wrote:

Yesterday, AMA and AARP urged Democrats to continue pushing healthcare plan:

I wasn't aware that the AMA had been co-opted by leftist liberals, but I was fully aware that AARP had been, in fact I will refuse to ever belong to AARP or support them in any way until they change course with their politics.


Which they ain't gonna do, so you might as well say you'll never join them.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 11:26 am
@Cycloptichorn,
AARP may change course if AARP continues to lose members.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/18/aarp-losing-members-health-care-faces-challenge-grassroots-senior-advocacy/

AARP, Losing Members Over Health Care, Faces Challenge From Grassroots Senior Advocacy Group

The Atlanta-based American Seniors Association (ASA), which is opposed to President Obama's health care plan, is trying to capitalize on growing public dissatisfaction with the AARP.

Look out AARP. There's a new senior advocacy group on the block offering a conservative alternative to seniors.

The Atlanta-based American Seniors Association (ASA), which is opposed to President Obama's health care plan, is trying to capitalize on growing public dissatisfaction with the AARP.

About 60,000 seniors have quit AARP since July 1 due to the group's support for health care reform, a spokesman for the organization said this week.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 11:28 am
@okie,
Laughing

AARP has 60 million or so members, so you are talking about less than .1% leaving. What more, they routinely lose about 300k members a month - to death.

You ought to do even the most basic research before posting stuff like this.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 11:41 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Actually, I mis-typed here; AARP has around 40 million members.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 02:36 pm
this has to cheer up the conservatives

Brown's Massachusetts victory fueled by frustration with Washington, poll shows
By Dan Balz and Jon Cohen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, January 22, 2010; 3:11 PM

Dissatisfaction with the direction of the country, antipathy toward federal government activism and opposition to the Democrats' health-care proposals drove the upset election of Republican Sen.-elect Scott Brown of Massachusetts, according to a new post-election survey of Massachusetts voters.

The poll by The Washington Post, the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation and Harvard University's School of Public Health underscores how significantly voter anger has turned against Democrats in Washington and how dramatically the political landscape has shifted during President Obama's first year in office.

Sixty-three percent of Massachusetts special election voters say the country is seriously off track, and Brown captured two-thirds of these voters in his victory over Democrat Martha Coakley. In November 2008, Obama scored a decisive win among the more than eight in 10 Massachusetts voters seeing the country as off course.

Nearly two-thirds of Brown's voters say their vote was intended at least in part to express opposition to the Democratic agenda in Washington, but few say the senator-elect should simply work to stop it. Three-quarters of those who voted for Brown say they would like him to work with Democrats to get Republican ideas into legislation in general; nearly half say so specifically about health care legislation.

When Obama was elected, 63 percent of Massachusetts voters said government should do more to solve problems, according to exit polling then. In the new poll, that number slipped to 50 percent, with about as many, 47 percent, saying that government is doing too many things better left to businesses and individuals.

Like Obama, Coakley won more than 70 percent of those pro-government voters, but the bigger pool of voters seeing government overreach helped Brown claim victory.

Health care topped jobs and the economy as the most important issue driving Massachusetts voters, but among Brown voters, "the way Washington is working" ran a close second to the economy and jobs as a factor.

Overall, just 43 percent of Massachusetts voters say they support the health care proposals advanced by Obama and congressional Democrats; 48 oppose them. Among Brown's supporters, however, eight in 10 said they were opposed to the measures, 66 percent of them strongly so.

Sizable majorities of Brown voters see the Democrats' plan, if passed, as making things worse for their families, the country and the state of Massachusetts. Few Coakley voters see these harms, and most of those backing her see clear benefits for the country if health-care reform became law. Less than half of Coakley's supporters say they or the state would be better off as a result.

Among Brown voters who say the health-care reform effort in Washington played an important role in their vote, the most frequently cited reasons were concerns about the process, including closed-door dealing and a lack of bipartisanship. Three in 10 highlighted these political machinations as the motivating factor, 22 percent expressed general opposition to reform or the current bill.

Coakley voters, by contrast, cited the need to cover the uninsured and fix the health care system as the main reasons the issue drove their vote.

Massachusetts enacted a universal-health-care plan several years ago, and the survey shows that it remains highly popular. Overall, 68 percent of the voters in Tuesday's election say they support the Massachusetts plan, including slightly more than half of Brown voters.

Obama also remains highly popular in Massachusetts. More than six in 10 of those who voted approve of his job performance, with 92 percent of Coakley voters expressing satisfaction, along with 33 percent of Brown's. More than half of Brown's backers say Obama was not a factor in their vote.

But the Obama administration's policies draw some fire, with nearly half of all special-election voters either dissatisfied or angry about those initiatives. Nearly three-quarters of Brown's voters expressed the negative view.

Republican policies prove even less popular, with 58 percent of Massachusetts voters saying they are dissatisfied or angry about what the Republicans in Congress are offering. Among Brown voters, 60 percent give positive marks to the policies of congressional Republicans, but a sizable number, 37 percent, offer a negative appraisal.

The Massachusetts election brought another indication that the Obama coalition from 2008 has splintered, just as the results in gubernatorial races in Virginia and New Jersey showed two months ago.

Compared to the 2008 presidential results, Coakley suffered significant erosion among whites, independents and working-class voters, according to the new survey.

In Massachusetts, independents made up about half of Tuesday's total electorate, according to the new poll, and they supported Brown by nearly a 2-to-1 margin. Obama carried Bay State independents by 17 percentage points in 2008. Among Brown voters, 29 percent said they backed Obama over Republican Sen. John McCain.

The poll was conducted by conventional and cellular telephone among a random sample of 880 Massachusetts residents who say they voted in the special election. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus four percentage points for the full sample.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 03:49 pm
@djjd62,
Good info; thanks for sharing.
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 04:04 pm
The White House and Congressional leadership have suddenly seen the need for ‘fiscal discipline” and want to empanel a bipartisan budget deficit commission to address the ballooning government deficit. This will have 10 Dems and 8 Repubs that will determine how to deal with the deficit, make recommendations which then come to an up or down vote in congress like the base closing commission. This composition ratio just screams tax increase.

Why this sudden Democratic urge for fiscal responsibility? In the past year they have passed: a $447 billion omnibus spending bill for fiscal 2009, a $787 billion stimulus, $3 billion for cash for clunkers, $75 billion in mortgage assistance, $34 billion for children's health care (Schip), $30 billion in anticipated auto bailout losses, with another nearly 11% spending increase possible for fiscal 2010 for domestic programs.

The GOP should avoid this like the plague. Just Say No! Better they wait, again, until after the mid-terms when the Repubs might have a better chance to engage the other side of the fiscal coin: spending cuts. Otherwise the GOP will just provide political cover for the Dems’ social meddling and corporate welfare and their insistence to raise taxes. Besides, this way the Democrats can take total credit for the solution to the problem. Conservatives and independents are watching.

JM
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 04:16 pm
@JamesMorrison,
Too little, too late. Their liberal habits will not last long concerning the growth of the national debt - even while this "commission" is in session.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 05:16 pm
@okie,
Okie,
I posted this back in March of 2005, and it outlines my beliefs exactly.

http://able2know.org/topic/47086-1

It started out as a decent discussion, but it quickly went downhill.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 06:02 pm
@mysteryman,
Thanks, mm. I read your list of points or beliefs, and I could not really find any of them that I disagreed with at all. I endorse all of them. We might have a minor difference here and there in the application of certain items that you posted, such as the one about privacy, we may disagree slightly in how this is applied, or exactly what it does apply to. For example, the right to privacy as a reason for the Roe v Wade ruling was I think a huge distortion or manufactured legal opinion in regard to the constitution. However, we do have protections against unreasonable search and seizure of our persons and our property, that is constitutional, I endorse that wholeheartedly, however I think liberals have twisted that protection to mean things that it does not mean, and it should not eliminate all methods used for national security and for tracking down criminals. The key to the protection is the word "unreasonable," as it is stated in the Bill of Rights.

All in all, compliments and a hearty endorsement of all of your beliefs as a conservative, mysteryman. It is heartening to find out that there are indeed still a great number of people that still believe in the constitution and conservatism. It is I believe the path to greatness and success again as a country, if the tide flows toward the conservative side of the spectrum again.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 07:17 pm
@mysteryman,
Mysteryman, I strongly believe your March 2005 post merits being re-posted here. I sincerely hope you will not object.
mysteryman wrote:

http://able2know.org/topic/47086-1

My Beliefs

I am politically conservative. I believe this places me in the minority.

I believe the government that governs least governs best, which is the foundation of
conservative adherents.

I believe the words in the constitution mean what they say. I can read.

I believe individual liberty must be respected in order for this experiment in
self-government to continue.

I believe the toll of freedom is responsibility. Those who fail to act responsibly are not
deserving of freedom.

I believe you ought to pay your own way. Charity begins at home, not in Washington DC.

I believe a country without borders will soon cease to be a country.

I believe you have the inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness ?
whatever that may be.

I believe you should be able to have all the fun you want, just not at someone else's
expense.

I believe in times of peace we should prepare for war.

I believe in equality for all, but not set-asides for some.

I believe we have freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

I believe in individual privacy.

I believe we should be very cautious when discussing or considering banning things.

I believe it is my job, duty and responsibility to raise my children to be responsible and
accountable human beings.

I believe in leaving this country in better condition when I leave it than when I arrived.


I believe it is my civic duty to stand up for what I believe.

I believe that rewarding people for negative or irresponsible behavior only breeds more
negative and irresponsible behavior.

I believe you are the Captain of your own vessel. It is no one else's fault if you run
aground.

I believe capitalism is a positive force on the planet, not a repressive, ugly one.

I believe in working hard to implement what I believe.

I believe success should be rewarded, not punished.

I believe there are people who disagree with my beliefs. I don't believe they are wrong. I
know they are.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 07:46 pm
HEALTH CARE INSURANCE

I think the best solution for providing health care insurance would be for only private insurers, and not the federal government, to provide health care insurance.

I think the least intolerable government solution would be for the government to cancel all of the current health care insurance it provides, including Medicare, Medicaid, and government employee coverage, and provide each American an annual healthcare insurance voucher that could be used to buy private health care insurance. Each voucher must be worth no more than $3,225. The total annual cost for 310 million of these vouchers"a total slightly more than the USA’s total current population"would be less than a trillion dollars per year. That would be much less than the total cost of the current Senate healthcare bill, Medicare, Medicaid, and government employee health care insurance.

However, I am convinced there are far better and more economical solutions than the one I just described in the previous paragraph..

I think the following are worth reading.
Quote:

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=18897&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
FIVE HEALTH CARE REFORM SOLUTIONS THAT MAKE SENSE
Massachusetts, the bluest of states in our union, stunned the nation on Tuesday when it voted to end Washington's unbridled spending and plan for government-run health care. Americans still want health care reform, but they are looking for clear, patient-centered, fiscally responsible solutions. There's a way to make this work, says Dr. C.L. Gray, president of Physicians for Reform.

Sell insurance across state lines:

State mandates drive up costs; health insurance for a 25-year-old male in New Jersey costs nearly six times what it does in Kentucky, largely because of state mandates.
Allowing businesses to purchase insurance across state lines empowers consumers, not Washington, and does not cost a dime.
Let individuals purchase health insurance with pre-tax dollars:

Insurance companies serve businesses, not patients; businesses purchase employee health insurance with pre-tax dollars while individuals purchase insurance with post-tax dollars making their insurance far more expensive.
This reform lets patients buy products that meet their needs and makes insurers more accountable to patients.
Encourage Health Care Savings Accounts (HSAs):

HSAs reduce health care costs without rationing (cutting Medicare); they also let patients control their own money, decreasing health care spending by 13 percent.
During 2005 and 2006, traditional insurance rose 7.3 percent annually while lower cost / higher deductable plans combined with HSAs rose only 2.7 percent annually.
End abusive medical litigation:

Frivolous litigation drives physicians out of medicine; bringing tens of millions of new patients into the system requires more physicians, not fewer.
Frivolous litigation reform lowers cost and improves access to care; Americans spend approximately $124 billion every year because physicians practice defensive medicine.
Cover the uninsured:

We can insure the uninsured without expanding American debt; approximately 25 percent of patients who visit the emergency rooms do not have health care coverage.
A system of tax credits can help the uninsured purchase coverage; this would cost approximately $80 billion annually.
Source: Dr. C.L. Gray, "Five Health Care Reform Solutions That Make Sense," Fox News, January 21, 2010.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=18898&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY, CUT TAXES
President Obama has saddled himself with several ideas about the economy and job creation that aren't working, either substantively or politically. And he appears to be too ideologically rigid or stubborn to consider the evidence and jettison the failed ideas, says Fred Barnes, the Executive Editor of the Weekly Standard.

Obama's failed ideas center on the myth that government spending is the most effective method of stimulating the economy, spurring strong growth, and generating new jobs. The president needs to chat with Harvard University economists Alberto Alesina and Silvia Ardagna on this subject. They studied dozens of examples of economic stimulation between 1970 and 2007 in 21 countries, including the United States. Their findings are unequivocal, says Barnes:

Fiscal stimuli based upon tax cuts are more likely to increase growth than those based on spending increases.
The current stimulus package in the United States is too much tilted in the direction of spending rather than tax cuts.
Obama's paltry tax cuts aren't the kind of across-the-board reductions in individual and corporate income tax rates that have revived sluggish economies by incentivizing private investment and stirring job creation.
Another finding by the economists bears on a separate aspect of Obamanomics: deficit reduction. According to Alesina and Ardagna:

Spending cuts are much more effective than tax increases in stabilizing the debt and avoiding economic downturns.
In fact, there are several episodes in which spending cuts adopted to reduce deficits have been associated with economic expansions rather than recessions.
What Obama would learn from a chat with Alesina and Ardagna is pretty simple: Do the opposite of what you're doing now. You want to stimulate economic growth and job creation, then cut tax rates across the board. You want to reduce the budget deficit and slow growth of the national debt, then cut spending. The economists have empirical evidence to support the effectiveness of this approach, says Barnes.

Source: Fred Barnes, "Obama the Slow Learner," Weekly Standard, Vol. 15, No. 18, January 25, 2010.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=18899&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
WHO WANTS TO TAX A MILLIONAIRE?
Supporters of health care reform need money -- a lot of money -- to pay for it. So it's not surprising that they would try to get it from the people with the most money to spare. Hence the so-called millionaire's tax, a levy embedded in the House health care bill. As House Ways and Means Committee chairman, Rep. Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.), explained, lawmakers are targeting big earners because it "causes the least amount of pain on the least amount of people."

That's the theory, anyway. In fact, the millionaire's tax is a good example of how poorly some politicians understand the policies they propose, says Veronique de Rugy, a senior research fellow at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University:

The health care bill that the House narrowly approved in November included a 5.4 percent tax on the portion of gross income (which includes capital gains and dividends) that exceeds $500,000 for individuals and $1 million for a couple.
The surtax would apply to tax years that begin after December 31, 2010.
So the first sign that the tax will hit more than millionaires is the fact that it targets half-millionaires from the get-go.
The idea's main selling point, says de Rugy, is that the increase would hit only 0.3 percent of tax filers -- roughly 400,000 people -- yet would raise $460.5 billion over the next 10 years:

Congress' Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that the new rate would affect only 1.2 percent of relatively small business owners, including sole proprietorships (that is, businesses owned by just one person), partnerships (owned by a few people), and S corporations (which have up to 75 shareholders).
But because the tax isn't indexed for inflation, over time it will apply to more taxpayers as inflation affects income levels.
Sound familiar? It should, because this is how the alternative minimum tax (AMT) became such a nightmare, says de Rugy.

According to the Tax Policy Center, by 2019 the number of taxpayers subjected to the health care bill's tax will have doubled. If inflation hits harder than the center's analysts assume, the number will be even higher. Either way, it will keep climbing, gradually assimilating more and more people who never thought they'd be considered super-rich, says de Rugy.

Source: Veronique de Rugy, "Who Wants to Tax a Millionaire?" Reason, February 2010.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=18901&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
IT'S TIME TO FREEZE GOVERNMENT WAGES
As states and localities continue to fight budget crises, they have an opportunity to close gaps by freezing employee wages. Because public employee compensation rose too fast over the last three years, they should be able to do this while retaining quality employees at least as well as they could back in 2006, says Josh Barro, a Senior Fellow with the Manhattan Institute.

In a recession when wages are stagnating, you would expect governments to capitalize on the loose labor market by holding the line on employee compensation. But public sector compensation (as measured by the Department of Labor) rose 42 percent faster than private sector compensation over the last three years, says Barro:

Since the end of 2006, hourly total compensation (wages plus benefits) has risen 6.5 percent for private sector workers, essentially keeping pace with inflation; but state and local government workers saw their hourly compensation rise 9.2 percent.
Federal civilian workers (about 10 percent of the public sector civilian workforce) are excluded from the above measure, but they did even better, receiving Congressionally-approved wage rises totaling 9.9 percent over the same period.
Why have public sector wages grown so fast, asks Barro?

In some cases, it's because employees are receiving scheduled raises under contracts negotiated before the economic crisis; New York public employees will see a 4 percent pay increase in April, under a contract negotiated in the middle of the last decade.
But in other cases, governments have agreed to pay increases during the recession, or been forced into them by arbitrators.
Transit agencies in New York and Washington, D.C., have seen their budget crises exacerbated by arbitrator-mandated pay increases, leading to service cuts.
And Congress just approved another 2 percent pay increase for federal workers, effective this month.
If states and localities had kept pace with private sector wage growth over the last three years, state budget gaps would be approximately $36 billion less than they are today. Or, put differently, the last three years' excess growth in public sector compensation necessitates an extra $36 billion in annual tax collections or program cuts, says Barro.

Source: Josh Barro, "It's Time to Freeze Government Wages," Real Clear Markets, January 19, 2010.

0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 07:53 pm
QUESTION: Will President Obama seek revenge against Harry Reid for those "racist" negro remarks and campaign for him in Nevada later this year?

JM
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 09:37 pm
@JamesMorrison,
No; never.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 10:29 pm
@JamesMorrison,
JamesMorrison wrote:

QUESTION: Will President Obama seek revenge against Harry Reid for those "racist" negro remarks and campaign for him in Nevada later this year?

JM


Laughing Laughing Laughing Good one, James!!!!
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 09:10 am
In PA Rasmussen poll Pat Toomey leads Specter by 49%-40%, and he leads Sestak by 43%-35% in PA Senate Race.

TalkingPointMemo
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/poll-toomey-leads-both-specter-and-sestak-in-pennsylvania-senate-race.php

and
Rasmussen Reports
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2010/election_2010_senate_elections/pennsylvania/2010_senate_election/election_2010_pennsylvania_senate

Time for Specter to switch parties? Oh, That's right, he has already done that before...twice! Maybe become an Independent?

JM
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 10:24 am
@JamesMorrison,
Has he tried the Communist Party USA yet? Why not, it would only keep him going in the direction he has been drifting, why not go all the way? After all, if you look at their website, you will find much of the Democratic Party platform. So he could try a different party and still keep some of his politics.

I was being funny. Actually I do not think Specter is a socialist, I think he is instead just a dummy without much of a solid foundational beliefs that found a career in politics and wants to keep his job.
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.25 seconds on 11/20/2024 at 12:21:30