55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2009 07:19 pm
@realjohnboy,
What! NPR trying to make me look bad? LOL
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2009 07:24 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The "joke" is if you read down the statement, using the 1st letter of each line.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2009 07:35 pm
@realjohnboy,
Oy vey.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 02:03 pm
Sarah Palin wrote:


TUNE IN TOMORROW [Sat., 10/31] TO HEAR A HEALTH CARE REFORM PLAN THAT WILL PROVE TO BE THE GAME CHANGER
...
Mark my words - tomorrow is the game changer! Tune in to hear common sense solutions that bury the false accusations that 'conscientious members of Congress have no solutions to meet America's health care challenges.'

If you're like me, shaking your head wondering why all the miscommunication between Washington and the American people who have been saying, "Please hear what we're saying about our desire for health care reform," then tomorrow will be a refreshing time of clarity for all.

All Americans, and especially colleagues of House Republican Leader John Boehner: please listen to tomorrow's weekly GOP national address. Rep. Boehner will highlight a common sense alternative to Speaker Pelosi's 1,990-page government takeover of health care. I urge you to watch for it.

...

You'll hear solutions. You'll hear of real choices based on America's proven free-market principles. You'll know once and for all what the GOP and Independents have been saying all along about alternatives to another big government take over. After tomorrow, you'll know that accusations against the GOP and Independents for not providing solutions are false. Those claims are bogus. There are alternatives. Tune in to Rep. Boehner's address tomorrow to hear them.

I look forward to the game changer!

- Sarah Palin

Quote:

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare
COMMON-SENSE HEALTH CARE REFORMS OUR NATION CAN AFFORD

The American people have spoken. They oppose government-run health care. Republicans are on the side of the American people.

What Americans want are common-sense, responsible solutions that address the rising cost of health care and other major problems. In the national Republican address on Saturday, October 31, 2009, House Republican Leader John Boehner (R-OH) discussed Republicans’ plan for common-sense health care reform our nation can afford. Boehner’s address emphasized four common-sense reforms that will lower health care costs and expand access to quality care without a government takeover of our nation’s health care system that kills jobs, raises taxes on small businesses, or cuts Medicare for seniors:

Number one: let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines.
Number two: allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do.
Number three: give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs.
Number four: end junk lawsuits that contribute to higher health care costs by increasing the number of tests and procedures that physicians sometimes order not because they think it's good medicine, but because they are afraid of being sued.
For the full text of Leader Boehner’s address, click HERE. For more information about these and some of the other common-sense health care reforms proposed by Republicans, please visit the links below. The Republican health care substitute to be offered during floor debate on Speaker Pelosi's government takeover of health care will incorporate all or part of the following bills:

Empowering Patients First Act (Republican Study Committee Health Care Reform Bill, introduced July 30, 2009)
Improving Health Care for All Americans Act (Shadegg Health Care Reform Bill, introduced July 14, 2009)
Medical Rights & Reform Act (Kirk-Dent Health Care Reform Bill, introduced June 16, 2009)
Help Efficient, Accessible, Low-cost, Timely Healthcare (HEALTH) Act (Gingrey medical liability reform bill, introduced June 6, 2009)
Small Business Health Fairness Act of 2009 (Johnson small business health plans bill, introduced May 21, 2009)
Promoting Health and Preventing Chronic Disease through Prevention and Wellness Programs for Employees, Communities, and Individuals Act of 2009 (Castle Wellness & Prevention Bill, introduced July 31, 2009)
Improved Employee Access to Health Insurance Act of 2009 (Deal auto-enrollment bill, introduced October 15, 2009)
Health Insurance Access for Young Workers and College Students Act of 2009 (Blunt bill to improve health insurance coverage of dependents, introduced October 21, 2009)

Democrats have proposed the establishment of a public-option government-run health plan. Some of the consequences of this government take over of health care include higher costs, lower quality and fewer choices.

Government Control:
Government programs constitute nearly half of all health care spending, and further increasing government's clout may well limit patient care as a way to contain costs. The federal government already imposes price controls on doctors, hospitals and pharmaceutical companies. Controls on patient procedures are likely to follow.

Spending and Tax Increases:
Democrats proposed more than $850 billion in tax increases on small businesses and middle class families to pay for their health care reform plan. Health spending will jump from 16.6% to 17.6% of GDP this year alone. House Democrats are calling for an additional $1.6 trillion in new health spending - on top of the more than $150 billion in health spending in the "stimulus" bill.

Massive, Forced Dislocation of Currently Insured Individuals:
Analysis by actuaries at the independent Lewin Group found that nearly 114 million individuals could involuntarily lose their private coverage due to a government-run plan, and be forced into the public plan.

Reduced Revenue for Providers:
Other analysis by the Lewin Group found that a government-run plan reimbursing at Medicare rates would cause hospitals' total revenue to drop by nearly 5% ($36.5 billion), and physicians' total revenue to decline by nearly 7% ($36.4 billion).

Poorer Coverage and Access:
CBO Director Doug Elmendorf recently testified that traditional Medicare provides a benefit package 15% lower than the standard employer-sponsored plan which is one reason why more than four in five Medicare beneficiaries rely on supplemental health coverage. In Medicaid, low provider participation rates often lead to long waits for care, such that low-income Americans would prefer private insurance coverage to Medicaid by a more than two-to-one margin.

Fraud:
Reports by the Government Accountability Office and other watchdog groups have highlighted persistent problems with fraud in government-run Medicare - estimating tens of billions per year, at taxpayer expense.
...

Quote:

http://gopleader.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=152439
House GOP Leader John Boehner (R-OH) Delivers Weekly Republican Address

GOP Leader: “Only Republicans have offered solutions to lower health care costs and make it easier to obtain quality, affordable coverage without imposing a massive burden on the American people.”

Washington, Oct 30 - Delivering the weekly Republican address, House Republican Leader John Boehner (R-OH) outlined Republicans’ plan to make health care more accessible and affordable for American families at a price our nation can afford. The address highlights the differences between Republicans’ smart, fiscally responsible reforms and Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s (D-CA) 1,990-page government takeover of health care. More on Republicans’ common-sense health care solutions is available at http://healthcare.gop.gov. Audio of the address is available here; video of the address will be available here once the embargo is lifted.

“I’m House Republican Leader John Boehner. At the beginning of this year, I told President Obama and Speaker Nancy Pelosi that Republicans would be ready to work with them whenever possible to address the nation’s biggest challenges. I also said that where there are differences, it was our obligation as a party to explain to the American people how we would do things better. And on the ‘stimulus,’ the budget, the energy bill, and health care, we have done exactly that.

“As a matter of fact, only Republicans have offered solutions to lower health care costs and make it easier to obtain quality, affordable coverage without imposing a massive burden on the American people.

“We first released our health care plan in June, and over the last six months, we have introduced at least eight bills that, taken together, would implement this blueprint. You can go right now to healthcare.gop.gov and get all the details, but for now, I just want to share with you four ideas Republicans have proposed:

· Number one: let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines;

· Number two: allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do today;

· Number three: give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs; and

· Number four: end junk lawsuits that contribute to higher health care costs by increasing the number of tests and procedures that physicians sometimes order not because they think it's good medicine, but because they are afraid of being sued.

“These are four smart, fiscally-responsible reforms that we can implement today to lower costs and expand access at a price our nation can afford. Again, you can learn more about these and all the health care initiatives Republicans have supported by visiting healthcare.gop.gov.

“The best way to get a sense of what Speaker Pelosi’s takeover of health care looks like is to actually look at it. Just shy of 2,000 pages, it runs more than 620 pages longer than the government-run plan Hillary Clinton proposed in 1993.

“This 1,990 pages of bureaucracy will centralize health care decision making in Washington, DC. It’ll require thousands of new federal employees. It’ll put unelected boards, bureaus, and commissions in charge of who gets access to what drug and what potentially life-saving treatment.

“And it won’t come cheap. Speaker Pelosi’s health care bill will raise the cost of Americans’ health insurance premiums; it will kill jobs with tax hikes and new mandates; and it will cut seniors’ Medicare benefits.

“We now have a choice: we can come together to implement smart, fiscally responsible reforms to improve Americans’ health care or we can recklessly pursue this government takeover that creates far more problems than it solves.

“It’s clear where the American people stand on this issue. They‘re frustrated and fed up. The ‘stimulus’ bill isn’t working. Unemployment is rising. The debt to be paid by our kids and grandkids is exploding. And now, Speaker Pelosi’s 1,990-page government takeover of health care.

“Enough is enough. Breaking the bank and taking away the freedoms Americans cherish is not the answer to the challenges we face.

“This coming week, Republicans will continue to stand on principle, defend freedom, and fight for our better solutions to make health care more affordable and accessible for American families.

“Thanks for listening.”
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 02:20 pm
@ican711nm,
WRONG premise; it's not "government run healthcare." It's government subsidized health insurance. BIG DIFFERENCE.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 02:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
WRONG premise; it's not "government run healthcare." It's government subsidized health insurance. BIG DIFFERENCE.

FALSE! That's a SMALL DIFFERENCE!

If the government subsidizes a program, the government controls that program.

If the government controls that program, the government runs that program.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 02:53 pm
@ican711nm,
Hmmm...
So does the government subsidize you ican? SS? building airports? roads?

Does that mean all your posts here are run by the government? I guess that would make the case for how the government can't run anything properly.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 03:01 pm
@ican711nm,
ican, Show us where in any of the congress' legislation where they say they will control health care?

Please cut and paste from the actual legislation; not your interpretation of it.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 03:30 pm
@parados,
Yes, Parados, the federal government SUBSIDIZES the building and operation of many airports, water ways, railways, interstate highways, and airways! The federal government also subsidizes the FAA which regulates my air trafficing along with everyone else's who pilots aircraft. AND, yeah, as a result the federal government CONTROLS the building and operation of airports, waterways, railways, interstate highways, airways, PLUS my and everyone else's air trafficing and the maintenance of the airplanes in which we fly.

Quote:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
Article I.
Section 8. The Congress shall have power
...
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
...
To establish post offices and post roads [e.g., interstate highways and rail roads, interstate waterways, interstate air ways; ]
...
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
...
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 03:37 pm
@ican711nm,
parados, Have you noticed? ican can cut and paste from the Constitution, but doesn't understand a word of what he's posting.

He can't even support his bs claims of what it says from evidence/Constitution.

His misinterpretations are now legend; all he knows what to do is cut and paste with claims that can't be backed up!

He must have trained those two pilots who crashed in the air recently.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 03:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Cicerone imposter go to this site:
http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare
COMMON-SENSE HEALTH CARE REFORMS OUR NATION CAN AFFORD

Then go to the bottom of that page to access the link that accesses that actual draft healthcare legislation Pelosi et al, THE PELOSI PLAN, are advocating and find what parts of health care the federal government will subsidize ... and therefore control ... and therefore will run. I scanned those pages and found many such examples. It took my land- line-tied computer almost 20 minutes to load the whole thing.

I cannot cut and past that draft legislation since it is in pdf format.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 03:51 pm
@ican711nm,
What exactly will they "control?" YOu can surely write a summary in a sentence or two to explain where the controls will be.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 04:57 pm
Quote:
Dede drops out of race!!!
BREAKING: 73wire.com!

In a surprise move, liberal Republican candidate for the special election in New York's 23rd Congressional District, has completely dropped out of the race.

As you know, 73wire.com, our project to get the Tea Party Movement into major coverage of the political battle, has been all over this race.

Earlier this week, we broke news of the NRCC's involvement in the race (by putting ground troops in play). Then, yesterday we broke the story about the NRCC closing up shop and completely backing out of the race.

This morning, we were the first to the scene to post the new poll numbers showing the conservative candidate Doug Hoffman making a huge surge in the race.

A few minutes later, we broke the story of the Dede drop out.
The Tea Party Movement Candidate
This news paves the way for Doug Hoffman to ride to a win in NY23. And this wouldn't be possible without the movement.

Now we just need to take Bill Owens, the liberal Democrat out of the race on election night next week, and the movement will be able to claim a major victory over the establishment.

This is what we're all about!

0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 05:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
According to Pelosi et al's healthcare draft proposal, the federal government will for example control:
(1) Who is provided healthcare;
(2) Who is not provided healthcare;
(3) When they are provided healthcare;
(4) When they are not provided healthcare;
(5) How much they have to pay for their healthcare;
(6) How much the taxpayers will have to pay to subsidize that healthcare.
(7) When it shall be determined how much the taxpayers will have to pay to subsidize that healthcare.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 06:15 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
Democrats' HealthCare Plan:
Trick or Treat?

"A new Government Plan can be dressed up many different ways - just like a child on Halloween. Some like calling a Government Plan a 'Public Option.' Others talk about an 'opt-out' or a 'trigger'. But once the mask comes off, we see that what's behind is just another Government Plan."
- U.S. Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, 10/28/09
-President Barack Obama, Joint Address To Congress, Washington, September 9, 2009- "If you are among the hundreds of millions of Americans who already have health insurance...nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have. Let me repeat this: Nothing in our plan requires you to change what you have." - Trick or Treat?
This plan will cause millions of Americans to lose their current health insurance plan and be forced onto the government-run health care plan. See: Lewin Group Analysis of the July 15 draft of the American Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009

Trick!

- President Barack Obama, Joint Address To Congress, Washington, September 9, 2009- "These steps will ensure that you -- America's seniors -- get the benefits you've been promised. They will ensure that Medicare is there for future generations... I will protect Medicare." - Trick or Treat?
This plan guts the already bankrupt Medicare program of nearly a half-trillion dollars. Millions of seniors will see their Medicare benefits reduced. See: CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf, Letter to Sen. Baucus, P.21, 22, 23, 10/7/09

Trick!

"My universal health care plan brings down the cost of health care…and will save the typical family up to $2500 a year on their premiums." - Then-Candidate Barack Obama, Remarks, Wisconsin, February 13, 2008. Trick or Treat?
Every independent analysis of this plan has found it would raise premiums for middle-class families. See: Oliver Wyman, "Insurance Reforms Must Include a Strong Individual Mandate and Other Key Provisions to Ensure Affordability, October 14, 2009

Trick!

"I will not sign [a bill] if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future, period." - President Barack Obama, Joint Address To Congress, Washington, September 9, 2009. Trick or Treat?
No matter how they spin it or spread it around, there is no way to pass a $1.8 trillion bill without adding a dime to the deficit. In fact, the first vote on health care reform was on a measure that would have added $300 billion to the national debt. Source: Senate Budget Committee (Minority)

Trick!

"Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase." - Then-Candidate Barack Obama, Remarks, New Hampshire, September 12, 2008. Trick or Treat?
This plan increases taxes by more than $400 billion. If you have insurance, you'll be taxed. If you don't have insurance, you'll be taxed. If you use a medical device such as a hearing aid, you'll be taxed. If you're a small business and you can't afford benefits for your employees, you'll be taxed. If you take prescriptions, you'll be taxed. See: CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf, Letter To Sen. Baucus, P.5, 10/7/09; "Estimated Revenue Effects Of The Revenue Provisions Contained In Title VI Of The 'America's Healthy Future Act of 2009,'" Joint Committee On Taxation, P.2, 10/8/09

Trick!

"This plan will finally offer you quality, affordable choices." - President Barack Obama, Joint Address To Congress, Washington, September 9, 2009. Trick or Treat?
This plan restricts an additional 14 million Americans to Medicaid - as their only option for health care. At least 40% of doctors in this country won't even see Medicaid patients and research shows Medicaid patients suffer worse health outcomes compared to those covered by private insurance. See: CBO's Preliminary Analysis of the Chairman's Mark for the America's Healthy Future Act, as Amended, 10/7/09


Quote:
Trick !
Dems' HealthCare is full of nothing but TRICKS! - - -
---NOW, TAKE A LOOK AT THE REPUBLICAN PLAN:
For a preview, go to: http://HealthCare.GOP.gov - -

Tell the Democrats in Congress: "Let the Republicans present their HealthCare Reform bill to America, do not silence them, or lock them out of the room! -Obama promised to listen to the other side, but he is NOT !"

ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 06:19 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
House HealthCare Bill

[Today's] House of Representatives' version of health-care reform will cost more than the $894 bn 10-year price tag cited by the Congressional Budget Office.

That’s because the CBO and Congress do not address human responses to legislation. Tax something more, you ultimately take in less in taxes. Penalize a company, and it finds ways to dodge the penalty.

And lawmakers have put in this unintended consequence: The individual premium costs in public option to take care of the poor are actually higher than other offerings.

That’s right, the CBO says the public plan’s premiums are higher than the premiums in the public exchanges, undermining the House’s claim that 'it will attract 9 mn enrollees by 2019 and result in a two-thirds decrease in the number of uninsured adults in the U.S.'

Use the following as a cheat sheet in coming days as the health-care reform bill wends its way through Congress. The cheat sheet provides an X-ray to this impenetrably dense bill and the CBO’s scoring. The unintended consequences from this bill will be manifold!

You’ll see the CBO is struggling mightily to score these legislative phantasms, noting 'its work is not done' and that its estimates are “subject to substantial uncertainty.”

Watch for Congressional statements that, while technically accurate, will also keep you barefoot and clueless on health reform, as the layers upon layers of provisions make the reform bill as transparent as a bucket of tar. And which means the resulting deficit spending from this bill will only add to a U.S. debt load already big enough to block out the sun.

Keep this in mind when you see the tax revenue the CBO and Congress claim the bill will raise to cover the costs. Both the CBO and Congress tend to not take into account the fact that individuals and companies reorganize their lives to avoid paying taxes.

Health-care tax, or penalties, or whatever they call it, will just mean people will carry on avoidance schemes, which means less revenues. Tax the rich, they’ll shelter it. Tax the Cadillac health insurance plans, insurers won’t offer them.

Because the CBO and Congress generally do not take into account human behavior when scoring a bill (they use what’s called the “static,” not the “dynamic,” scoring model), the revenue estimates from the CBO and Congress on past tax legislation have been off by a factor of $150 bn or more.

Also, the reform bill’s taxes are not indexed to inflation, so as more middle-class pay rises into those brackets, more middle-class people will be hurt.

Here are the details:

The New Spending

It includes $1.1 tn in new spending over 10 years: $425 bn increases to Medicaid and SCHIP;
$605 bn on subsidies for the poor to buy insurance;
$57 bn in spending on primary care increases; and
$34 bn in new spending on public health initiatives.

The New Costs

The bill’s costs are offset by a new tax surcharge on high-income individuals and other provisions estimated to increase federal revenues by $572 bn; and $168 bn in collections of penalties paid by individuals if they don't buy insurance ($33 bn estimated) and employers ($135 bn) if they don’t buy health insurance for their workers.

To pay for the bill, the House is also counting on other undefined spending changes. That includes fee cuts for nonphysicians, meaning other health care providers, of $229 bn, and Medicare Advantage cuts of $170 bn ($245 bn in Medicare cuts to doctors over ten years has since been nixed; that cost is now moving into other government budget line items). It’s also counting on wringing tens of billions of dollars in waste and fraud out of the system to pay for the bill.

The Reality Check That Bounced

OK, think this through. Higher taxes on the rich have historically not delivered the revenues promised because the rich shelter their income, IRS data show.

And the pool of taxpayers that would supposedly toss off all this tax revenue is not that vast and deep. The number of taxpayers hit by the 5.4% surtax on singles earnings $500,000 in the house bill, married couples earning $1 mn is only 494,967, based on 2007 IRS data, the last year for which data is available, notes William Ahern of the Tax Foundation.

Tax cuts can deliver revenues -- the Clinton tax cuts on estates and capital gains delivered more revenues than promised tax revenues from the tax hikes on the rich, according to IRS data.

And do you really believe that future Congresses over the next 10 years will hang tough and make the $399 bn in total reimbursement cuts to hospitals, other providers, and Medicare Advantage, each year for 10 years straight?

Remember, the 1997 Balanced Budget Act tried to chase down this exact strategy, but Congress undid those cuts and reimbursed providers anyway.

And watch out for the promises to cut waste and fraud out of the system that the House is counting on, from the American Medical Association and hospitals.

You really think the AMA can corral the 135,000 active doctors in its membership to deliver on these promises? Or that the nation’s 5,700 hospitals will all fall in line?

How Employers Will React

The “play-or-pay” requirement on employers says they would either have to offer “qualifying” insurance to their employees and contribute a substantial share toward the premiums, or pay a fee to the federal government that would generally equal 8% of their payroll.

It’s an easy choice for employers: Lay off and not hire workers if the insurance costs are too high, or just pay the extra 8% payroll tax and dump workers on the public plan. Which means more costs to the U.S. taxpayer.

State Taxes May Rise

Moreover, the federal funding for Medicaid to take care of extra enrollees will only cover 70% of the state’s costs. The rest, the states have to pay for. That means state taxes rise.

Public Option’s Not-So-Cheap Premiums

The primary rationale espoused by Democrats for their government-run health care plan is that it would drive down costs by providing a lower cost option than private plans (and thus force the greedy insurance companies to lower their “exorbitant” rates to compete), notes Fox News analyst James Farrell.

But will the poor really sign up for the public option since its premiums are higher than the average private industry plan in the new proposed insurance exchanges? How would the public option drive down insurance costs through competition if its premiums are higher than the average private industry plan in the exchanges?

The CBO finds that under the House plan, the government-run plan would actually charge higher premiums:

"That estimate of enrollment reflects CBO’s assessment that a public plan paying negotiated rates would attract a broad network of providers but would typically have premiums that are somewhat higher than the average premiums for the private plans in the exchanges."

The Opt Out is NOT an Option

Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid announced the health-care bill will have a public option and a way for states to opt out of the public option (the House bill does not include an opt-out ).

It’s a charade " taxpayers in states that opt out will get taxed anyway to pay for the bill. And who in each state gets to decide to trigger the opt out escape hatch? Voters? State legislators? The DMV?

A churlish reaction would be this: couldn't the states turn around and say they want to opt out of the fed’s unfunded mandates "like the expansion of Medicaid to pay for the health reform bill, where they’ll have to pony up 30%?

The Arizona Legislature already passed the Health Care Freedom Act, which places an initiative on the 2010 ballot allowing citizens to vote to decide whether the state should opt out of the entire health care reform bill, notes Darrell M. West, vice president and director of governance studies at the Brookings Institution. Other states are considering similar legislation, West says.

And West wonders if unhealthy people will migrate to states with a public option if their own jurisdiction opts out of the national system. States may be tempted to establish residency requirements for health care the way they did for welfare, he says, possibly making it more difficult for the uninsured to get coverage in those areas.

Also, if states don’t like congressional decisions on gun control, climate change or immigration, will state legislators demand an opt-out? “If this were 1965 and there were a Medicare opt-out, it is conceivable we would have ended up with two-thirds of the country having Medicare, while one-third did not,” West says.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 06:40 pm
@ican711nm,
Now that you made these claims, please prove them from the legislation.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2009 12:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Now that you made these claims, please prove them from the legislation.

You should have meant to post:
Now that you made these claims, AND PROVIDED EVIDENCE FROM THE POSTS OF OTHERS, WHO ALSO READ THAT LEGISLATION, THAT SUPPORTS YOUR CLAIMS, please PROVIDE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE VALIDITY OF THE EVIDENCE YOU PROVIDED TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS.

I opine that the evidence I have provided is valid.

Do you claim or opine my evidence is invalid? If you claim it is invalid please provide the evidence that supports your claim.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2009 12:58 pm
@ican711nm,
You haven't proved anything; they are opinions without providing where in the legislation government will control healthcare.

Just because others claim something, doesn't make them true until they can provide direct evidence from the legislation. Personal opinions don't count for anything.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2009 01:03 pm
TEA Party Patriots wrote:
Michelle Bachmann was just on Hannity, She is calling for patriots to meet her in Washington at noon on Thursday and make a house call on Congress to defeat this Healthcare bill.

Okay look at all the band wagon boys. We need to email the RNC and
Newt and tell them to take a hike. That we are taking over because
they have gotten us into this mess. Remember every single one who
endorsed a liberal Republican because she was a Republican not because
she stood for Republican values and principles. Give them both
barrels.

 

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