55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 10:26 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

By the way, Black Americans got freedom under Lincoln.

When did they, in your opinion, get equality?

Lincoln simply made them not slaves anymore. Is that your definition of freedom?

The GOP doesn't actually benefit from bringing up Lincoln as an example of their commitment to equality. It just shows that they've a perfect example of how their modern leadership in the twentieth century really abandoned Lincoln's direction.
Foofie wrote:

Now, leave me alone. You should not argue with me, since I do not live in your world. Having had different experiences, I do not see the world from your perspective.

This would not mean you don't live in his world, only that you see the SAME world from a different perspective.

Besides, if you live in a different world that CI, then there is no point in you arguing with anyone else in "another" world is there, so why do you do it. Point blank, you don't actually believe what you said here.

T
K
O
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 10:33 am
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:
Again!
No **** Sherlock.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 10:51 am
@ican711nm,
Yeah.. The Tea Party attendees think that Obama was President when the 2009 Budget was signed by Bush in 2008.

The GPO clearly lists the 2009 budget as being the Bush budget
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/browse.html

"Simplistic" is a good word you can use to describe yourself ican. Although, "idiot" might work well too.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 11:04 am
Jeeze, Parados, don't try to confuse Ican with mere facts. Just because the Federal fiscal year ends on September 30, and the 2009 budget had to be completed before Mr. Obama was even elected is no reason to deny Ican his right to rant irrationally.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 11:13 am
@parados,
The Democrat controlled congress passed the 2009 budget and Bush signed it.

The Democrat controlled congress passed the TARP bill and Bush signed it.

The Democrat controlled congress passed the Stimulus Bill and Obama signed it.

The Democrat controlled congress and Obama have not yet rescinded any part of the TARP and Stimulus bills, nor any part of the 2009 budget.

Therefore, the Democrat controlled congress and Obama are responsible for the consequences of these bills and budget AFTER Obama was inaugurated.
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 11:21 am
@ican711nm,
Evidence that WREDAP President Obama and his administration are incompetent:
(a) http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html
The Obama Administration has VIA THE STIMULUS BILL transfered wealth from those who lawfully earned it to those who have not lawfully earned it, but the Constitution of the USA does not grant power to the federal government to transfer wealth from those who lawfully earned it to those who have not lawfully earned it.

(b) ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt
Total USA employment increased millions of people, 1980 through 2008, in each of the Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II administrations, but decreased more than 5 million people in the first 8 months of the Obama administration.

(c) http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/TablePrint.asp?FirstYear=1965&LastYear=2008&Freq=Year&SelectedTable=5&ViewSeries=NO&Java=no&MaxValue=14412.8&MaxChars=8&Request3Place=N&3Place=N&FromView=YES&Legal=&Land=
Total USA GDP increased trillions of dollars, 1980 through 2008, in each of the Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II administrations, but decreased more than 90 billion dollars in the first 8 months of the Obama administration.
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 01:23 pm
@ican711nm,
A SUMMARY OF EVENTS THAT LED TO THE USA'S CURRENT RECESSION/DEPRESSION

2006
*11/07"Democrats win majorities in both houses of Congress. The U.S. economy is growing at about 3 percent, unemployment is at 4.5 percent, and inflation under 2 percent.

2007
*06/23"Two Bear Sterns hedge fund groups collapse due to their mortgage investments.
*08/09" President Bush requests Congress pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*12/06" President Bush warns Congress of need to pass legislation reforming GSEs.

2008
*03/14"J.P. Morgan and the Federal Reserve recognize extent of Bear’s toxic assets, including sub-prime mortgages, and credit default swaps, and interconnection with other banks.
*03/14"At Economic Club of New York, President Bush requests Congress take action and reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*04/14"President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*05/03"President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*05/19"President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*05/31"President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*06/06"President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*07/11"Senator Chris Dodd says: "There’s sort of a panic going on today, and that’s not what ought to be. The facts don’t warrant that reaction, in my opinion … Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were never bottom feeders in the residential mortgage market. People ought to feel comfortable about that. "
*07/13"Treasury Secretary Paulson asks Congress to grant him authority to take over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*09/07"Paulson takes over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and offers them $200 billion, despite the fact their government credit line had been limited to $25 billion.
*09/15"Lehman Brothers officially collapses, the government does not intervene, and panic occurs, triggering a big Dow decline.

2009
*02/10"Treasury Secretary Tim Geitner unveils the Administration’s $2 trillion TARP II plan, and the Dow drops 382 points, or 4.6 percent
*02/17"President Obama signs a $787 billion bailout bill.
*02/18" President Obama reveals his mortgage bailout plan.
*02/19"Rick Santelli says in an impromptu speech on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange: "The government is promoting bad behavior … How many of you people want to pay for your neighbor’s mortgage? President Obama are you listening?" Santelli calls for a "Chicago Tea Party."
*02/20"The market falls as Chris Dodd, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee floats the idea of nationalizing the nation’s banks. The White House issues a denial, and the Dow ends down 100 points. The Dow is down now more than 800 points"nearly 10 percent"from the day before President Obama’s inauguration.

THE DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED CONGRESS IN 2007 AND 2008 IS PRIMARILY RESPONSIBLE FOR FOR THE START AND CONTINUATION OF THE USA'S RECESSION/DEPRESSION.

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 01:26 pm
Oh yeah . . . and trillions of dollars of Federal debt incurred prior to the 2006 midterms are just an interesting coincidence, huh?
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 01:31 pm
@Setanta,
THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION IS WREDAP (Wealth REDistrubution Activist Perpetrators) AND INCOMPETENT

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt
HISTORY OF TOTAL USA EMPLOYMENT 1980 - 2009

....Total USA Employed.....Change
Carter
1980.. 99,302,000------------------
Reagan
1984 105,005,000....+ 5,703,000
Reagan
1988 114,968,000....+ 9,963,000
Bush I
1992 118,492,000....+ 3,524,000
Clinton
1996 126,708,000....+ 8,216,000
Clinton
2000 136,891,000....+ 10,183,000
Bush II
2004 139,252,000....+ 2,361,000
Bush II
2008 145,362,000....+ 6,110,000
Obama
2009 139,649,000....- 5,713,000 (as of August 31, 2009)


http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/TablePrint.asp?FirstYear=1965&LastYear=2008&Freq=Year&SelectedTable=5&ViewSeries=NO&Java=no&MaxValue=14412.8&MaxChars=8&Request3Place=N&3Place=N&FromView=YES&Legal=&Land=
HISTORY OF TOTAL USA GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT 1980 - 2009

Year..…….GDP ($billions)….Change
Carter
1980…….. 2,789.5………………………………
Regan
1984…….. 3,933.2…….…………. + 1,143.7
Reagan
1988…….. 5,103.8…….……….…. + 1,170.6
Bush 41
1992…….. 6,337.7…….………….. + 1,233.9
Clinton
1996……. 7,816.9…….………….. + 1,479.2
Clinton
2000…….. 9,817.0…….………….. + 2,000.1
Bush 43
2004…,, 11,685.9…….………….. + 1,868.9
Bush 43
2008….. 14,208.7…….………….. + 2,522.8
Obama
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009/02/18/afx6067181.html
2009…… 14,109.2…….………….. " 99.5 (-0.7% as of August 31, 2009)

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 01:42 pm
Once again, we see the example of someone who apparently believes that if you repeat something often enough, it will become the truth.
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 01:53 pm
@Setanta,
Once again, we see an example of someone who believes that if the truth is repeated often enough, it will eventually be recognized to be the truth by those who have previously rejected the truth.
parados
 
  4  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 01:58 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Once again, we see an example of someone who believes that if the truth is repeated often enough, it will eventually be recognized to be the truth by those who have previously rejected the truth.

This from the guy that has repeatedly posted that Obama is responsible for the 2009 budget signed by Bush.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 02:32 pm
@ican711nm,
What truth? You show no correlation between your statistics and any policies of Mr. Obama. You don't even provide the bad justification of rationalization. There is absolutely no logical argument from you for a correlation. So, essentially, you've got nothing.

To quote someone, whose name escapes me, there are lies, damned lies and statistics.
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 03:54 pm
@Setanta,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/pdf/hist.pdf
(FROM TABLE 1.2)

………GPD$Billion……Deficit$Billion…DeficitGPD%
1977…..1,974.3…………….. - 53.3……………… - 2.7 CARTER
1978…..2,217.0…………….. - 59.9…………….. - 2.7
1979…..2,500.7…………….. - 40.0…………….. - 1.6
1980…..2,726.7…………….. - 73.6…………….. - 2.7
1981…..3,054.7…………….. - 79.4…………….. - 2.6 REAGAN
1982…..3,227.6…………….. - 129.1……………… - 4.0
1983 -- 3,440.7…………….. - 206.4…………….. - 6.0
1984…..3,840.2…………….. - 184.3…………….. - 4.8
1985…..4,141.5…………….. - 211.2…………….. - 5.1 REAGAN
1986…..4,412.4…………….. - 220.6…………….. - 5.0
1987…..4,647.1…………….. - 148.7…………….. - 3.2
1988…..5,008.6…………….. - 155.3…………….. - 3.1
1989…..5,400.5…………….. - 151.2…………….. - 2.8 BUSH 41
1990…..5,735.4…………….. - 223.7…………….. - 3.9
1991…..5,935.1…………….. - 267.1…………….. - 4.5
1992…..6,239.9…………….. - 293.3…………….. - 4.7
1993…..6,575.5…………….. - 256.4…………….. - 3.9 CLINTON
1994…..6,961.3…………….. - 201.9…………….. - 2.9
1995…..7,325.8…………….. - 161.2…………….. - 2.2
1996…..7,694.1…………….. - 107.7…………….. - 1.4
1997…..8,182.4…………….. - 24.5…………….. - 0.3 CLINTON
1998…..8,627.9…………….. + 69.0…………….. + 0.8
1999…..9,125.3…………….. + 127.8…………….. + 1.4
2000…..9,709.8…………….. + 233.0…………….. + 2.4
2001….10,057.9…………….. + 130.8…………….. + 1.3 BUSH 43
2002….10,377.4…………….. - 155.7…………….. - 1.5
2003….10,808.6…………….. - 378.3…………….. - 3.5
2004…..11,499.9…………….. - 414.0…………….. - 3.6
2005….12,237.9…………….. - 318.2…………….. - 2.6 BUSH 43
2006….13,015.5…………….. - 247.3…………….. - 1.9
2007….13,667.5…………….. - 164.0…………….. - 1.2
2008….14,311.5…………….. - 415.0…………….. - 2.9

0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 04:11 pm
@ican711nm,
(b) ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt
Total USA employment INCREASED millions of people, 1980 through 2008, in each of the Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II administrations, but DECREASED more than 5 million people in the first 8 months of the Obama administration.

Obama Administration's federal government policies have DECREASED the USA's total employment.

(c) http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/TablePrint.asp?FirstYear=1965&LastYear=2008&Freq=Year&SelectedTable=5&ViewSeries=NO&Java=no&MaxValue=14412.8&MaxChars=8&Request3Place=N&3Place=N&FromView=YES&Legal=&Land=
Total USA GDP increased trillions of dollars, 1980 through 2008, in each of the Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II administrations, but decreased more than 90 billion dollars in the first 8 months of the Obama administration.

Obama Administration's federal government policies have DECREASED the USA's total GPD.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 04:12 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Yeah.. The Tea Party attendees think that Obama was President when the 2009 Budget was signed by Bush in 2008.

The GPO clearly lists the 2009 budget as being the Bush budget
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/browse.html

"Simplistic" is a good word you can use to describe yourself ican. Although, "idiot" might work well too.



You could also go with douche bag, moron, ****-up, brain-dead asshole, ****-for-brains, dipshit, dumb ****, dumbass, dolt, asshole, or retard. These are just a few suggestions. I could provide more if the dumb **** in question doesn't like these.
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 04:19 pm
@ican711nm,
The Democrat controlled congress passed the 2009 budget and Bush signed it.
The Democrat controlled congress passed the TARP bill and Bush signed it.
The Democrat controlled congress passed the Stimulus Bill and Obama signed it.

Both the TARP Bill and the Stimulus Bill are EXPENDITURES in addition to 2009 Budgeted expenditures.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 04:35 pm
@kickycan,
THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION IS WREDAP (Wealth REDistrubution Activist Perpetrators) AND INCOMPETENT.

They have managed to enable total USA employment to DECREASE over 5 million persons, while EACH of their predecessors since 1980 managed to enable total USA employment to INCREASE by more than a million persons.

They have managed to enable total USA GPD to DECREASE over 90 billion dollars, while each of their predecessors since 1980 managed to enable total USA GPD to INCREASE more than a trillion dollars.
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 05:09 pm
Quote:

http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis.asp
Home > News & Events > Imprimis
Imprimis
September 2009

Walter Williams

George Mason University

PRINTABLE PDF

Future Prospects for Economic Liberty
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WALTER WILLIAMS is the John M. Olin distinguished professor of economics at George Mason University. He holds a B.A. from California State University at Los Angeles and an M.A. and a Ph.D. in economics from UCLA. He has received numerous fellowships and awards, including a Hoover Institution National Fellowship and the Valley Forge Freedoms Foundation George Washington Medal of Honor. A nationally syndicated columnist, his articles and essays have appeared in publications such as Economic Inquiry, American Economic Review, National Review, Reader's Digest, Policy Review and Newsweek. Dr. Williams has authored six books, including The State Against Blacks (later made into a PBS documentary entitled Good Intentions) and Liberty Versus the Tyranny of Socialism.

The following is adapted from a lecture delivered on August 2, 2009, during a Hillsdale College cruise from Venice to Athens aboard the Crystal Serenity.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the justifications for the massive growth of government in the 20th and now the 21st centuries, far beyond the narrow limits envisioned by the founders of our nation, is the need to promote what the government defines as fair and just. But this begs the prior and more fundamental question: What is the legitimate role of government in a free society? To understand how America's Founders answered this question, we have only to look at the rule book they gave us-the Constitution. Most of what they understood as legitimate powers of the federal government are enumerated in Article 1, Section 8. Congress is authorized there to do 21 things, and as much as three-quarters of what Congress taxes us and spends our money for today is nowhere to be found on that list. To cite just a few examples, there is no constitutional authority for Congress to subsidize farms, bail out banks, or manage car companies. In this sense, I think we can safely say that America has departed from the constitutional principle of limited government that made us great and prosperous.

On the other side of the coin from limited government is individual liberty. The Founders understood private property as the bulwark of freedom for all Americans, rich and poor alike. But following a series of successful attacks on private property and free enterprise"beginning in the early 20th century and picking up steam during the New Deal, the Great Society, and then again recently"the government designed by our Founders and outlined in the Constitution has all but disappeared. Thomas Jefferson anticipated this when he said, "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."

To see the extent to which liberty is yielding and government is gaining ground, one need simply look at what has happened to taxes and spending. A tax, of course, represents a government claim on private property. Every tax confiscates private property that could otherwise be freely spent or freely invested. At the same time, every additional dollar of government spending demands another tax dollar, whether now or in the future. With this in mind, consider that the average American now works from January 1 until May 5 to pay the federal, state, and local taxes required for current government spending levels. Thus the fruits of more than one third of our labor are used in ways decided upon by others. The Founders favored the free market because it maximizes the freedom of all citizens and teaches respect for the rights of others. Expansive government, by contrast, contracts individual freedom and teaches disrespect for the rights of others. Thus clearly we are on what Friedrich Hayek called the road to serfdom, or what I prefer to call the road to tyranny.

As I said, the Constitution restricts the federal government to certain functions. What are they? The most fundamental one is the protection of citizens' lives. Therefore, the first legitimate function of the government is to provide for national defense against foreign enemies and for protection against criminals here at home. These and other legitimate public goods (as we economists call them) obviously require that each citizen pay his share in taxes. But along with people's lives, it is a vital function of the government to protect people's liberty as well"including economic liberty or property rights. So while I am not saying that we should pay no taxes, I am saying that they should be much lower"as they would be, if the government abided by the Constitution and allowed the free market system to flourish.

And it is important to remember what makes the free market work. Is it a desire we all have to do good for others? Do people in New York enjoy fresh steak for dinner at their favorite restaurant because cattle ranchers in Texas love to make New Yorkers happy? Of course not. It is in the interest of Texas ranchers to provide the steak. They benefit themselves and their families by doing so. This is the kind of enlightened self-interest discussed by Adam Smith in his Wealth of Nations, in which he argues that the social good is best served by pursuing private interests. The same principle explains why I take better care of my property than the government would. It explains as well why a large transfer or estate tax weakens the incentive a property owner has to care for his property and pass it along to his children in the best possible condition. It explains, in general, why free enterprise leads to prosperity.

Ironically, the free market system is threatened today not because of its failure, but because of its success. Capitalism has done so well in eliminating the traditional problems of mankind"disease, pestilence, gross hunger, and poverty"that other human problems seem to us unacceptable. So in the name of equalizing income, achieving sex and race balance, guaranteeing housing and medical care, protecting consumers, and conserving energy"just to name a few prominent causes of liberal government these days"individual liberty has become of secondary or tertiary concern.

Imagine what would happen if I wrote a letter to Congress and informed its members that, because I am fully capable of taking care of my own retirement needs, I respectfully request that they stop taking money out of my paycheck for Social Security. Such a letter would be greeted with contempt. But is there any difference between being forced to save for retirement and being forced to save for housing or for my child's education or for any other perceived good? None whatsoever. Yet for government to force us to do such things is to treat us as children rather than as rational citizens in possession of equal and inalienable natural rights.

We do not yet live under a tyranny, of course. Nor is one imminent. But a series of steps, whether small or large, tending toward a certain destination will eventually take us there. The philosopher David Hume observed that liberty is seldom lost all at once, but rather bit by bit. Or as my late colleague Leonard Read used to put it, taking liberty from Americans is like cooking a frog: It can't be done quickly because the frog will feel the heat and escape. But put a frog in cold water and heat it slowly, and by the time the frog grasps the danger, it's too late.

Again, the primary justification for increasing the size and scale of government at the expense of liberty is that government can achieve what it perceives as good. But government has no resources of its own with which to do so. Congressmen and senators don't reach into their own pockets to pay for a government program. They reach into yours and mine. Absent Santa Claus or the tooth fairy, the only way government can give one American a dollar in the name of this or that good thing is by taking it from some other American by force. If a private person did the same thing, no matter how admirable the motive, he would be arrested and tried as a thief. That is why I like to call what Congress does, more often than not, "legal theft." The question we have to ask ourselves is whether there is a moral basis for forcibly taking the rightful property of one person and giving it to another to whom it does not belong. I cannot think of one. Charity is noble and good when it involves reaching into your own pocket. But reaching into someone else's pocket is wrong.

In a free society, we want the great majority, if not all, of our relationships to be voluntary. I like to explain a voluntary exchange as a kind of non-amorous seduction. Both parties to the exchange feel good in an economic sense. Economists call this a positive sum gain. For example, if I offer my local grocer three dollars for a gallon of milk, implicit in the offer is that we will both be winners. The grocer is better off because he values the three dollars more than the milk, and I am better off because I value the milk more than the three dollars. That is a positive sum gain. Involuntary exchange, by contrast, means that one party gains and the other loses. If I use a gun to steal a gallon of milk, I win and the grocer loses. Economists call this a zero sum gain. And we are like that grocer in most of what Congress does these days.

Some will respond that big government is what the majority of voters want, and that in a democracy the majority rules. But America's Founders didn't found a democracy, they founded a republic. The authors of The Federalist Papers, arguing for ratification of the Constitution, showed how pure democracy has led historically to tyranny. Instead, they set up a limited government, with checks and balances, to help ensure that the reason of the people, rather than the selfish passions of a majority, would hold sway. Unaware of the distinction between a democracy and a republic, many today believe that a majority consensus establishes morality. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Another common argument is that we need big government to protect the little guy from corporate giants. But a corporation can't pick a consumer's pocket. The consumer must voluntarily pay money for the corporation's product. It is big government, not corporations, that have the power to take our money by force. I should also point out that private business can force us to pay them by employing government. To see this happening, just look at the automobile industry or at most corporate farmers today. If General Motors or a corporate farm is having trouble, they can ask me for help, and I may or may not choose to help. But if they ask government to help and an IRS agent shows up at my door demanding money, I have no choice but to hand it over. It is big government that the little guy needs protection against, not big business. And the only protection available is in the Constitution and the ballot box.

Speaking of the ballot box, we can blame politicians to some extent for the trampling of our liberty. But the bulk of the blame lies with us voters, because politicians are often doing what we elect them to do. The sad truth is that we elect them for the specific purpose of taking the property of other Americans and giving it to us. Many manufacturers think that the government owes them a protective tariff to keep out foreign goods, resulting in artificially higher prices for consumers. Many farmers think the government owes them a crop subsidy, which raises the price of food. Organized labor thinks government should protect their jobs from non-union competition. And so on. We could even consider many college professors, who love to secure government grants to study poverty and then meet at hotels in Miami during the winter to talk about poor people. All of these"and hundreds of other similar demands on government that I could cite"represent involuntary exchanges and diminish our freedom.

This reminds me of a lunch I had a number of years ago with my friend Jesse Helms, the late Senator from North Carolina. He knew that I was critical of farm subsidies, and he said he agreed with me 100 percent. But he wondered how a Senator from North Carolina could possibly vote against them. If he did so, his fellow North Carolinians would dump him and elect somebody worse in his place. And I remember wondering at the time if it is reasonable to ask a politician to commit political suicide for the sake of principle. The fact is that it's unreasonable of us to expect even principled politicians to vote against things like crop subsidies and stand up for the Constitution. This presents us with a challenge. It's up to us to ensure that it's in our representatives' interest to stand up for constitutional government.

Americans have never done the wrong thing for a long time, but if we're not going to go down the tubes as a great nation, we must get about changing things while we still have the liberty to do so.


Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 06:27 pm
ican, sweetie: I think we're going to have to break-up if you don't quit copying and pasting the same things over and over again (a million times). It is unpleasant to scroll past the same thing several times a day, and unpleasant to thumb down, so what else can I do to avoid this abusive posting? Will you cease and desist?
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 7.55 seconds on 11/18/2024 at 06:23:40