AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Then in what world should it be acceptable to indoctrinate and train school children to chant adoration to a highly controversial elected public figure?

Just curious, why do you believe the president is "highly controversial"? Is it because he's a Democrat? Because while I see many of the issues he has to deal with as controversial, I don't see him, personally, as a controversial figure.

Next question, do you think it's inappropriate to celebrate our country's first black president during Black History Month?

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

wandeljw wrote:

Is Glenn Beck really discussing important issues?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdK8OFHT6Jw[/youtube]

You bet he is. As Beck suggested, exchange George Walker Bush's name for Barack Hussein Obama's name in that chant and see what the emotional impact is from your side. In a world in which school children are not allowed to sing simple Christmas carols or keep a Bible in sight on their desk or discuss the pros and cons of Intelligent Design as one theory of how the world has evolved. . . . in a world in which school children are not required to salute the flag or recite the Pledge of Allegiance if they choose not to, in a world in which children are not taught about what the Founders believed or what the Pilgrims came to the New World to obtain and who cannot pray out loud in public. . . . all this so that the poor children will not be indoctrinated with controversial ideas. . . .

Then in what world should it be acceptable to indoctrinate and train school children to chant adoration to a highly controversial elected public figure?

It is this kind of intolerable double standard that is in the agenda of those tea partiers and the taxpayer protest demonstrators and helps fuel the anger that is steadily building in this country.

You do know that this was a rehearsal for a Black History month play? And that it's entirely appropriate to salute the first Black prez during that time period?

The idea that Obama is 'highly controversial' is a ******* joke, he got elected with the biggest majorities we've seen in a long time and has only been on the job a short time. He's no more controversial than any other president has been.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

But there has been plenty of evidence posted by Ican and others that tort reform HAS brought down malpractice insurance premiums and the doctors are passing along the savings by upgrading equipment, taking high risk patients they once could not afford to take, and providing better medical care.

If you'd stopped at "HAS brought down malpractice insurance premiums" you'd be right. But what we have continued to ask for and what none of ican's links has provided is evidence of those savings being passed on to consumers.

Quote:

Costs are only part of the debate and tort reform must be part of the debate.

You keep saying this as if it has not yet dawned on you that it IS part of the debate -- we're debating it right now. Tort reform of the type enacted in Texas has consequences for individuals who are injured by doctors by restricting their access to the courts. I see that as a blow to individual liberty that had better be balanced by some significant societal benefits. If it has no effect on the cost of health care (insurance) for people then I don't believe it's worth doing. And that's completely leaving aside the fact that someone has already pointed out that the federal government most likely does not have the power to enact such reforms on a national level.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

There are plenty of ways to acknowledge the President and/or any other black leaders during Black History Month without indoctrinating the kids to recite praises exclusively to 'the messiah'.

You would not have considered this appropriate if something similar had been recited re George Bush for a play to be given on President's Day.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Then in what world should it be acceptable to indoctrinate and train school children to chant adoration to a highly controversial elected public figure?

I find it more than surprising that someone calls this "indoctrinate" and calls her President a "highly controversial elected public figure" [sic!].

But on the other hand - if schoolchildren here were forced to salute the flag, teachers quickly would be associated with Nazis ...

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

There are plenty of ways to acknowledge the President and/or any other black leaders during Black History Month without indoctrinating the kids to recite praises exclusively to 'the messiah'.

A few points:

First, neither the students nor the teachers were referring to Obama as 'the messiah,' only you dumbasses call him that.

Second, you have no idea how many Black leaders were being saluted during that play, whatsoever; so when you say 'exclusively,' you are likely completely wrong.

Third, it's not your place to judge the content of a school play someone puts on during Black history month and decide it's inappropriate, b/c you disagree politically with the president on issues. I mean, how asinine, Fox.

Quote:

You would not have considered this appropriate if something similar had been recited re George Bush for a play to be given on President's Day.

I would have considered it foolish - for Bush is a fool, and it's hard to see how you could have a play celebrating him without including this fact - but hardly inappropriate.

Cycloptichorn

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

There are plenty of ways to acknowledge the President and/or any other black leaders during Black History Month without indoctrinating the kids to recite praises exclusively to 'the messiah'.

Was that in the video, the kids calling him "the messiah"? I'm curious what you would consider to be an appropriate way to acknowledge the first black president.

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I presume then that if you guys think that chant was a-okay to have school kids do, you wouldn't object to the alternate words proposed by this conservative attorney?

Quote:

New lyrics to the Obama school indoctrination chant
September 27, 10:40
Ada County Conservative Examiner
Leo Shishmanian

Heard about B. Bernice Young Elementary School in Burlington Township, New Jersey? That's the school where the kids sang the Barack Hussein Obama indoctrination chant last February for a Black History Month presentation. Here are the lyrics to that song:

Mmm, mmm, mmm!
Barack Hussein Obama
He said we must be fair today
Equal work means equal pay

Mmm, mmm, mmm!
Barack Hussein Obama
He said that we must take a stand
To make sure everyone gets a chance

Mmm, mmm, mmm!
Barack Hussein Obama
He said red, yellow, black or white
All are equal in his sight

Mmm, mmm, mmm!
Barack Hussein Obama

Yes!
Mmm, mmm, mmm!
Barack Hussein Obama

This is more than a bit frightening. It is not very far removed from the education of the Hitler Youth. No, I'm not comparing President Obama to Hitler but you have to admit, the similarity is more than a bit creepy. Admittedly, President Obama's election was historic but clearly some people have an unhealthy idolization of him. Even if your kids didn't have to give the chant, you should be concerned because these are future leaders, business owners, and parents. And voters.

So, in an effor to provide some balance, I propose that kids around the nation sing the following alternative lyrics set to the same rhythm as the Obama indoctrination chant.

Uh, er, um!
Barack Hussein Obama
He plans to take the government’s hand
And grab your wallet again and again

Uh, er, um!
Barack Hussein Obama
He said red, yellow, white or black
Take from the haves, giving to those who lack

Uh, er, um!
Barack Hussein Obama
He has great plans for us, you see
The world’s best health care soon will be free!

Uh, er, um!
Barack Hussein Obama
He said that we must take a stand
By holding talks with that nut in Iran

Uh, er, um!
Barack Hussein Obama
He travels the world with a glint in his eyes
So he can incessently apologize

Uh, er, um!
Barack Hussein Obama
America's allies fret and shout
His new foreign policy's selling them out

Uh, er, um!
Barack Hussein Obama
He cannot bowl a strike or spare
But picks on special needs kids without care

Uh, er, um!
Barack Hussein Obama
He's giving great power to radical czars
The Constitution's suff'ring great scars

Uh, er, um, uh, er, no!
Barack Hussein Obama

Feel free to share it with your local public school teachers. Then again, maybe it's time to start homeschooling...
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-11685-Ada-County-Conservative-Examiner~y2009m9d27-New-lyrics-to-the-Obama-school-indoctrination-chant

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@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

And that's completely leaving aside the fact that someone has already pointed out that the federal government most likely does not have the power to enact such reforms on a national level.

If health care is nationalized, then I would expect that medical malpractice suits might come under federal jurisdiction, in the same way that ERISA created federal jurisdiction for employment-related benefits lawsuits. That all depends, however, on the manner and scope of health care's nationalization.

In any event, conservatives shouldn't be arguing in favor of federal "tort reform" if they truly believe in their own rhetoric regarding the intrusiveness of federal regulation and the tenth amendment.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

County Conservative Examer wrote:
It is not very far removed from the education of the Hitler Youth. No, I'm not comparing President Obama to Hitler but you have to admit, the similarity is more than a bit creepy.

The Hitler Youth wasn't educated in public schools.

Well, of course they were, since they had to go to school.
As have boy scouts in the USA.

And girl scouts do it, too, like the girls during the Nazi period, the League of German Girls.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

That is true. The states have to enact tort reform. But the Feds have a great deal of influence to encourage them to do that.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

County Conservative Examer wrote:
It is not very far removed from the education of the Hitler Youth. No, I'm not comparing President Obama to Hitler but you have to admit, the similarity is more than a bit creepy.

The Hitler Youth wasn't educated in public schools.

Well, of course they were, since they had to go to school.
As have boy scouts in the USA.

And girl scouts do it, too, like the girls during the Nazi period, the League of German Girls.

So you're saying that the school kids in Germany were not encouraged to "Heil Hitler" along with other accolades once Hitler had seized power in Germany? The analogy is totally off base?

But setting that aside as the writer of the piece was quite clear that he was not comparing Obama to Hitler but was rather illustrating the difference between teaching history and indoctrination, I will note that not one liberal has agreed that it would have been okay to include criticism of Obama policies in that chant as well as lauding the 'good stuff'.

The more mature of course simply vote down the post proving their open minded and tolerant natures once again. (cough)

2 Replies

@wandeljw,

wandeljw wrote:

Is Glenn Beck really discussing important issues?

Glenn Beck can't even identify an important issue let alone discuss one intelligently.

Keith Olbermann: "Glenn Beck may well be the dumbest man on the planet."

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@Foxfyre,

And here's the lyrics to the second song those same school kids were reportedly taught:

Quote:

Song 2:
Hello, Mr. President we honor you today!
For all your great accomplishments, we all doth say "hooray!"

Hooray, Mr. President! You're number one!
The first black American to lead this great nation!

Hooray, Mr. President we honor your great plans
To make this country's economy number one again!

Hooray Mr. President, we're really proud of you!
And we stand for all Americans under the great Red, White, and Blue!

So continue ---- Mr. President we know you'll do the trick
So here's a hearty hip-hooray ----

Hip, hip hooray!
Hip, hip hooray!
Hip, hip hooray!

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

And this is an important national issue to you?

I can tell you that if my kid were in a play that ended up being broadcast on national television without having been released for that purpose, I'd be pissed alright, but not at the school.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

There are plenty of ways to acknowledge the President and/or any other black leaders during Black History Month without indoctrinating the kids to recite praises exclusively to 'the messiah'.

I voted down Foxy's post. Her fear-mongering claim of indoctrination of children and her reference to the first black man to ever be president of the United States as "the messiah" is intolerable numbnuttery.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

So you're saying that the school kids in Germany were not encouraged to "Heil Hitler" along with other accolades once Hitler had seized power in Germany? The analogy is totally off base?

Did it say in your quote "school kids"? It looks here at my end of the line to be "Hitler Youth" - which was the youth organisation of the NSDAP for male young children.

"Heil Hitler" was -unfortunately- accepted as the common greeting in Germany of those days, instead of "Guten Morgen"/"Guten Tag"/"Guten Abend". Generally. Mainly by adults, always by party members.

Foxfyre wrote:

But setting that aside as the writer of the piece was quite clear that he was not comparing Obama to Hitler but was rather illustrating the difference between teaching history and indoctrination, ...

And that is totally wrong - since he compares the Hitler Youth (a 'party organisation of the NSDAP for male children and youth') to school children.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Yes, he confused the Hitler youth with the school kids of Germany who were indoctrinated in the virtues of Hitler and were made to praise him. Here we are taught that it was those same school children, however, who were ultimately expected to join the Hitler Youth even as most other German youth organizations were disbanded.

But if you can look past his technical error, you can see his point about indoctrination of the youth is the way to take ideological control of of a people.

Here is a good discussion I think--I don't know anything about the source or the author, and I didn't read all of it, but what I read does seem to parallel what I have been formally taught re 20th Century World History. Perhaps it is available in German also?
http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/tnmfobe1196.html

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On the topic of indoctrination, I think that people like Fox simply object to children being told it's okay to like Obama. People such as Fox are not interested in their children (and by the looks of it, other people's children) having positive thoughts about him. Rather, it seems, the problem stems from the fact that those screaming "indoctrination" from the tallest hill in town are the same ones attempting to indoctrinate children into contempt for the president.

It is far more socially acceptable for them to rally against the general idea of "indoctrination" than specifically the president, because then they feel as if they are defending some sort of liberty and it makes them feel morally superior (and even persecuted).

This is just another irony wasted on Fox.
K
O

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Before December 1941, the German American Bund inside the USA was actively advocating to Americans the superiority of Adolf Hitler, his gang, and his policies. They were successful recruiting a great many German Americans, including their children, into their organization. That was stopped when Germany declared war on America.

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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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