old europe wrote:Foxfyre wrote:The people are already demanding it. Yes the question is intentionally leading, but at least it is specific and should advise Congress that this is what the people want and that would be the purpose for asking it.
Well, it seems that I was talking about polls, whereas you were talking about push polls. No wonder we're talking past each other.
You seem to be talking about polls that fish for a certain answer.
I am talking about polls that inform the leaders what the people are thinking and/or what the people want so that the leaders cannot manufacture what the people think or what the people want out of thin air as so many are prone to do. It is no different than asking for a show of hands: How many want . . . .
No. The subject is too broad and encompasses too wide a scope of possibilities. Unless you know what is intended by tort reform, there is no way to know whether you are voting for something you do agree with or something that you do not agree with.
old europe wrote:Foxfyre wrote:I agree I could have phrased my question in a way to be less leading. But it was no more leading than your question of an expectation of reduced insurance premiums.
It was more leading, because it implied a certain outcome of an action that the question was about without asking people whether or not they agreed with the stated outcome. My question simply asked whether people agree with a certain expected outcome.
And if the respondent voted 'no', you would have no clue what he or she wanted in the way of tort reform making the question useless.
To generate a 'no' vote of course would be the motive of those who do not want tort reform and could use the poll as ammunition to lobby against it.
You shouldn't have to pay my bills or for my healthcare if I didn't adequately prepare for my elder years.
Foxfyre wrote:You shouldn't have to pay my bills or for my healthcare if I didn't adequately prepare for my elder years.
Most working people can NEVER "adequately" prepare for the consequences of failing health no matter how diligently they try to do so. My own mother purchased a high quality health insurance plan. The monthly premium ate up more than 30 percent of her gross income. She was frugal. She purchased a modest townhouse. Her monthly payment on her townhouse was far less than her monthly health insurance premium. She paid off her car. She purchased a very nice pre-paid burial plan. She saved many thousands of dollars. She lost EVERYTHING she had--was even forced to cash in her pre-paid burial plan--when her disease progressed to the point where needed skilled nursing care 24/7. Her health insurance company dropped her like a hot potato.
What should our society do with people like my mother--who did everything in her power to prepare for illness and old age--but inevitably came up short?
Sigh all you want, fox. Your arrogant name-calling and labeling of anyone who disagrees with you only goes to demonstrate just how deep your selfishness runs. You've got adequate coverage on the public dollar and would deny the same to those without medical benefits. Not only that, you've called for the nationalizing of regulating the insurance industry (which is currently regulated by the states) so that you and the Stud can move across state lines and not be inconvenienced. It seems to me that Big Government is a-ok with Fox when Fox is the beneficiary but a major NO when you've already got yours.
I certainly have not called for nationalization of the insurance companies. I am actively lobbying specifically against that. I would like the law changed so that insurance companies would be allowed to compete across state lines because I think that would make the system more affordable and efficient for everybody. But because it would be a good thing for me too, I suppose in your eyes that brands me with another scarlet letter.
nationalizing of regulating the insurance industry
I would like the law changed so that insurance companies would be allowed to compete across state lines
Foxfyre wrote:old europe wrote:Foxfyre wrote:The people are already demanding it. Yes the question is intentionally leading, but at least it is specific and should advise Congress that this is what the people want and that would be the purpose for asking it.
Well, it seems that I was talking about polls, whereas you were talking about push polls. No wonder we're talking past each other.
You seem to be talking about polls that fish for a certain answer.
No, I'm referring to a political campaign technique in which an individual or organization attempts to influence or alter the view of respondents under the guise of conducting a poll. I also provided a link in case someone didn't know what "push poll" refers to.
Foxfyre wrote:I am talking about polls that inform the leaders what the people are thinking and/or what the people want so that the leaders cannot manufacture what the people think or what the people want out of thin air as so many are prone to do. It is no different than asking for a show of hands: How many want . . . .
Then why would you ask a question that "is intentionally leading", as you already admitted? Why not ask question that are as neutral as possible?
Foxfyre wrote:No. The subject is too broad and encompasses too wide a scope of possibilities. Unless you know what is intended by tort reform, there is no way to know whether you are voting for something you do agree with or something that you do not agree with.
So what? There's a chance that people have no idea what tort reform is. They always have the possibility to state that they have no opinion on the matter.
If you have to educate them first by telling them what you're hoping to accomplish, you're campaigning. You're presenting your point of view, and then ask people what they think about it. That's what the poll I posted about earlier did: it asked people whether or not they supported Obama's health reform, then briefly explained the reform plans, and then asked them the question again.
As you can see, this changed the outcome of the poll.
If you want to get a good reading of people's opinion rather than propagate your point of view, there's nothing wrong about simply asking people whether or not they support tort reform.
Foxfyre wrote:old europe wrote:Foxfyre wrote:I agree I could have phrased my question in a way to be less leading. But it was no more leading than your question of an expectation of reduced insurance premiums.
It was more leading, because it implied a certain outcome of an action that the question was about without asking people whether or not they agreed with the stated outcome. My question simply asked whether people agree with a certain expected outcome.
And if the respondent voted 'no', you would have no clue what he or she wanted in the way of tort reform making the question useless.
If a respondent answers "no" to the question "Do you want Congress to enact meaningful tort reform that will help insurance companies reduce premiums?", you wouldn't have a clue about what he or she wanted in the way of tort reform either. Maybe the respondent wants Congress to enact meaningful tort reform, but wants Congress to do so in order to increase the profit margin of doctors. You have no way of determining what the respondent intended by answering "no".
Foxfyre wrote:To generate a 'no' vote of course would be the motive of those who do not want tort reform and could use the poll as ammunition to lobby against it.
To generate a 'yes' vote of course would be the motive of those who want tort reform and could use the poll as ammunition to lobby for it.
There is a way to ask if the people think that certain kinds of tort reform would help reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums.
Quote:There is a way to ask if the people think that certain kinds of tort reform would help reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums.
Yes, there is. You could ask "Do you think that certain kinds of tort reform would help reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?"
old europe wrote:Foxfyre wrote:To generate a 'no' vote of course would be the motive of those who do not want tort reform and could use the poll as ammunition to lobby against it.
To generate a 'yes' vote of course would be the motive of those who want tort reform and could use the poll as ammunition to lobby for it.
Or the motive could be to get the issue out there and have it thoroughly aired, debated, discussed, defended, or disputed honestly, thoroughly, and openly. And wouldn't that be a refreshing thing to happen.
Break Local Monopolies by Letting Insurers Compete across State Lines
by Michael F. Cannon
Michael F. Cannon is director of health policy studies at the libertarian Cato Institute and the coauthor of Healthy Competition: What's Holding Back Health Care and How to Free It.
September 17, 2009
This article appeared in the Los Angeles Times on September 16, 2009.
This article is the first of a three part series.
"Fannie Med" is all but dead. Good riddance.
President Obama's "government option" had no business being part of health reform. It was more radical than the Clinton health plan, which the American people soundly rejected. Of course the government's special advantages would drive private insurers out of business, a point that honest supporters readily admit. But the real problem is that the government plan would have increased costs and suppressed quality for all patients, publicly and privately insured.
What's more, the votes just aren't there. Somebody tell Democratic Sen. Max Baucus he can stop performing CPR. Have GOP Sen. Olympia Snowe call the time of death. And let's move on, because there are real solutions to be had.
Though misguided, the government option tapped into palpable frustrations. Private insurance doesn't provide the affordable, secure coverage that consumers want. Invariably, the problem is inane government policies that protect insurance companies from competition.
Why do insurance companies sell to employers rather than compete for every last consumer? Because unless we surrender our earnings and our coverage decisions to an employer, the federal government hits us with a major tax penalty, as we must use after-tax income to buy individual polices (as opposed to the before-tax paycheck deductions employers make to pay for coverage). The fact that most health insurance disappears at the moment we most need it " when we lose our jobs " is just one indication the system is rigged to serve someone other than us.
Let the workers control those earnings and choose secure health plans, and we will ruthlessly drive from the market insurers who overcharge us or shirk on their commitments to care for the sick. As the president recommends, there are reforms that can get us there gradually, with minimal disruption.
Obama says there isn't enough competition among insurance companies. And he's right: Each state protects its domestic insurers from competition by barring entry to products licensed by other states. If you live in California, you can't buy a less-expensive policy available in Nevada.
According to one estimate, Congress could extend coverage to about a third of the uninsured simply by sweeping away those barriers to interstate competition. It wouldn't even have to raise taxes or create a single new government subsidy.
If one new competitor would "keep insurance companies honest," imagine what dozens of new competitors would do.
Instead of holding the insurance companies' feet to the fire, however, Democrats plan to enact rules that the incumbent insurers want " rules that would further protect them from competition.
The House and Senate legislation would make health insurance compulsory for most or all Americans, with heavy subsidies to help them afford it. Handing private insurers a guaranteed and heavily subsidized customer base would amount to an unjustified windfall for an industry that isn't exactly struggling. Regulations on pricing and benefits would further protect insurers from competition by standardizing product design.
Is it any wonder the insurance companies support compulsory health insurance?
Everyone from libertarians to single-payer advocates can agree:
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10553
old europe wrote:
Quote:There is a way to ask if the people think that certain kinds of tort reform would help reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums.
Yes, there is. You could ask "Do you think that certain kinds of tort reform would help reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?"
But my intent was to specify what those certain kinds of tort reform would be.
Foxfyre wrote:
old europe wrote:
Quote:There is a way to ask if the people think that certain kinds of tort reform would help reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums.
Yes, there is. You could ask "Do you think that certain kinds of tort reform would help reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?"
But my intent was to specify what those certain kinds of tort reform would be.
That's funny, because your original question did not specify what those certain kinds of tort reform would be. It merely implied that tort reform would lower insurance premiums.
Whatever. To me that's specific. To you it is obviously something else, but since you are obviously not interested in discussing the topic, why don't we move on now?
Whatever. To me that's specific. To you it is obviously something else, but since you are obviously not interested in discussing the topic, why don't we move on now?
The government, however, does underwrite flood insurance and earthquake insurance, and this does not compete with the private sector who doesn't want that kind of business.
Just as it does with flood and earthquake insurance, however, the government, however, could offer high risk, catastrophic kinds of policies without competing with private insurance companies and that would provide a useful service for everybody. Is that option on the table for consideration? Nope.
In this case the government is providing only that which cannot be provided more efficiently, effectively, or economically by the private sector.
So, to remedy the situation, the federal government set up its own system by which the people could BUY--they aren't given, they BUY--the additional flood or earthquake insurance if they need it.
A person who lives on a hilltop is not likely to need flood insurance . A farmer in Nebraska has essentially zero risk of damage from an earthquake and does not need earthquake insurance. The rates for those who do need it is not cheap and is based on a scale of probability of risk which reduces the risk to the taxpayer.
Because the federal government is making that kind of coverage available to those who need it, insurance companies are willing to accept the reasonable risk of providing homeowners insurance that everybody everywhere has, and they can do that at a much lower rate than they otherwise could do. That benefits everybody probably more than the risk involved and that is what justifies the government providing that service.
In this case the government is providing only that which cannot be provided more efficiently, effectively, or economically by the private sector.
I have no problem with the government providing the kinds of health insurance; i.e. catstrophic coverage etc., that the insurance companies would prefer not to offer and, in the case of certain pre-existing conditions, are not willing to offer. So a 'public option' dealing strictly with that would allow the insurance companies to offer routine coverage at a much lower rate than they can now do.
Again, the government would be doing only that which cannot be provided more efficiently effectively, or economically by the private sector.
But a law allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines would add a factor of healthy competition that almost certainly would break up oppressive monopolies in some states and would almost certainly reduce rates.
Add in the GOP plan to make health insurance individually owned instead of employer owned, and you eliminate a lot of oppressive union power and make insurance portable while not eliminating the employer's ability to make paying for insurance coverage a benefit if they choose to do so.
Add in the tort reform that all thinking people know is necessary, and a great deal of the broken system will be fixed without costing the taxpayer a dime.
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Turn Up the Heat NOW on the Senate Finance Committee!
Greetings Fellow Patriots,
I hope you all have recovered from the 9.12 event that took place. It certainly was an amazing event and weekend. Even if you were not in DC, most, if not all of you, attended local events. Overall, the weekend of 9.12 was very successful! Job well done my fellow Patriots!
We have great momentum coming off a historic event, but that does not mean that we can let up on applying pressure to our elected officials. They are going full speed ahead trying to get this health care legislation passed, so we have to turn up the heat!
Right now, the Senate has legislation in the Senate Finance Committee and this is where we need to focus our efforts. We need your help in emailing the Senators of the Senate Finance Committee members.
We have three simple messages for them:
1. No Government Run Health Care
2. No Mandate
3. No Reconciliation/Fast Track (using reconciliation for health care reform is corrupt)
These three simple messages are what we need to get across to these Senators and their staffers. Will you please do your part by emailing these Senators on Thursday? Will you continue your effort by calling the Senators' offices on Friday and speaking with their staffers?
When calling and emailing, remember the three simple messages listed above. Be sure to let the staffers know who you are in your community, whether you are a business owner, community leader, teacher, nurse, policeman, fireman, veteran, etc. and why government run health care is not good for you and your family, as well as not good for America.
You should also note that yesterday, Senate Finance Committee Democrats rejected a GOP amendment that would have required a health overhaul bill to be available online for 72 hours before the committee votes. The GOP members of the Senate Finance Committee argued that transparency is an Obama administration goal and that their constituents are demanding that they read bills before voting. The Democrats on the Committee rejected the amendment, so the bill will not be available online before being voted on by the Committee. That is transparency for you! You can read more about it here.
Patriots, it is up to us to stop the government takeover of health care. Please do your part by emailing on Thursday and making calls on Friday. Time is of the essence and we need to turn up the heat NOW!
All members of the Senate Finance Committee are listed below. I have made it easy for you by giving you the numbers for each of their DC offices, as well as the local district offices. To email them, please click on their name and it will take you to their website. Once on the website, just click on "Contact" and you will be taken to the email form. I am working on obtaining email addresses for all of their Chiefs of Staffs and once I receive that information, I will gladly send it out to you.
Thank you for your support and commitment to Tea Party Patriots and the cause! You are all incredible Patriots and we are blessed to have you on our team. Together, we will make a difference! Keep up the good work. If there is anything you need, please let us know. We are here for you!
Have a great day!
Amy
Tea Party Patriots National Coordinator Team,
Amy Kremer ([email protected], 678-495-8271, gchat: amykremer)
Jenny Beth Martin ([email protected], 404-326-096, gchat: jennybethm)
Mark Meckler ([email protected])
Rob Neppell ([email protected])