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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2008 04:15 pm
@Foxfyre,
I expect more from you fox.

I'm bringing you face to face with someone you seem to respect and asking you to tell us how you can while he does x, y, and z, and you don't seem to care to do it.

This IS a discussion on liberalism/progressivism and conservatism. As stated before, why doesn't the people (not the politicians) of the republican party put forth a "real" conservative by your standards? Why don't you vote for the American Conservative Party?

If you so adamantly believe what you do, I think you lack the integrity to follow through with it. The Republicans love people like you, because you'll never take a stand.

T
K
O
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2008 04:18 pm
@Diest TKO,
I've answered every question with something to back it up. You, on the other hand, have provided nothing of substance to back up your criticism. So until you can, all we have is you think Rush Limbaugh is scum, and I think you have nothing to base that on other than you don't like him. And that's where we are. I provided my list of what I have heard Rush say that he believes, and I am pretty sure I could mail that list to him and he would agree with every single point on it.

And I'm pretty sure you can't back up a single one of your complaints re Rush with anything substantive.

So there we are.

We got into this with another member describing Rush as a poor example of conservatism. I'm pretty sure that member can't provide anything substantive to back up his observation either.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2008 04:22 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

I've answered every question with something to back it up. You, on the other hand, have provided nothing of substance to back up your criticism. So until you can, all we have is you think Rush Limbaugh is scum, and I think you have nothing to base that on other than you don't like him. And that's where we are.


Fox, I'm sourcing my information here. I'm basing my Rush-is-scum from Rush himself. What more can you ask for?

From the Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/06/rush-limbaugh-operation-c_n_100485.html
Note: If you want to disregard everything but what Rush says on the post, my point remains.

T
K
O
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2008 04:24 pm
@Foxfyre,
Then to be fair Fox, I won't assume. I'll ask.

Do you think Rush is a good conservative? Is he such that he should be made an example of what good conservatives should strive to be like?

Fair questions I think.

T
K
O
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2008 04:29 pm
Diest,
The possible election of Barack Obama to the USA presidency is a huge threat to the survival of America's representative constitutional government. Obama is a proven liar and a proven advocate of violating the USA Constitution far more than it has been to date. Since voting for an ideal candidate more in harmony with my beliefs is unlikely to result in her/his election, the only practical choice I have for voting to deny Obama the presidency is to vote for McCain..
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2008 04:30 pm
@Diest TKO,
To be fair here, I did not favor Rush's operation chaos, I thought it was a loser initiative, but the fact remains people have traditionally voted for candidates they thought would be an easier opponent in the general, that is the right of voters. My own family did it a long time ago, not intentionally changing parties, they just happened to favor the other party candidate before the primary, so they voted in their primary for the weaker opponent. No big deal, but as I said, I think organizing an effort like that is a bad idea.

Rush is an example of a conservative, but not perfect in all areas of conservatism, as nobody is, but certainly a better fit than a liberal Republican or any Democrat.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2008 04:31 pm
@Diest TKO,
Actually I heard that broadcast and I'm pretty sure what Huffington posted is not verbatim. But yeah, Rush and his listeners were having a huge amount of fun with it. In the end Rush was pretending to move the emphasis to vote for Obama as he thought Hillary was the stronger candidate. That didn't work out too well either did it? If Rush had any power to sway elections Bill Clinton would never have been elected twice and John McCain sure wouldn't have been the Republican nominee this time. (Do you think Rush is too stupid to know that? Apparently only some especially ignorant or naive Democrats are.)

I, as a conservative, would not throw away my Constitutionally protected right to vote for any cause. No Conservative I know would do that.

On the other when you have two imminently unqualified and extreme Democrat frontrunners for the U.S. Presidency, do you not think it okay to try to move somebody less extreme to the front? Cyclop once said he didn't care how unethical the Democrats were so long as they won.

But, in this case, you can continue to be the butt of a joke and take it seriously. Or not. Your choice.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2008 06:27 pm
@Foxfyre,
So you have nothing to say for the claim of 40,000 people in MS that did exactly as Rush Claims? Was he lying?

T
K
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0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 07:11 am
Kathleen Parker, today...

Quote:
What does it mean that the right cannot politely entertain dissenting opinions within its ranks? What, if anything, does it portend that Buckley The Younger has bolted from the right, even resigning (with enthusiastic editorial approval) from the family flagship?...

Radical conservatives are still having an interesting time of it, though these days they are being mutilated by fellow "conservatives." The well-fed Right now cultivates ignorance as a political strategy and humiliates itself when its brightest sons seek sanctuary in the solitude of personal honor.

The truth few wish to utter is that the GOP has abandoned many conservatives, who mostly nurse their angst in private. Those chickens we keep hearing about have indeed come home to roost. Years of pandering to the extreme wing -- the "kooks" the senior Buckley tried to separate from the right -- have created a party no longer attentive to its principles. ..

Paraphrasing Ronald Reagan, the younger Buckley said: "I haven't left the Republican Party. It left me."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/16/AR2008101602538.html?nav=hcmodule

As I said earlier (a few times), I have little confidence you guys will wise up to the situation you're in and how you got there. People like Parker and Buckley (and so many others like them) haven't become 'liberals' or non-conservatives. Rather, you guys have just followed the 'kooks' like Limbaugh into the irrational and the too-frightened-to-self-correct extremities of fruitcake-land. Congratulations. As other conservatives (false conservatives, obviously) leave you, along with the broad electorate, your comfort in the solitude of heroic victimization can only continue to grow.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 09:51 am
@blatham,
Conservatism thrives on individualism, blatham. We all have opinions, not like a bunch of hopeless dupes running off the cliff, as lefties are. Limbaugh is no kook, he is a decent citizen, something that can't be said for a few Democrat constituenties these days, ACORN, for one, a bunch of crooks undermining the election process, corruption that your man, Obama, doesn't object to.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 10:09 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Conservatism thrives on individualism, blatham. We all have opinions, not like a bunch of hopeless dupes running off the cliff, as lefties are. Limbaugh is no kook, he is a decent citizen, something that can't be said for a few Democrat constituenties these days, ACORN, for one, a bunch of crooks undermining the election process, corruption that your man, Obama, doesn't object to.


Haha, are you serious? You blather about ACORN all day, and then go on about what an individual you are? Laughing

You have proven Blatham's point, to a T. How funny.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 10:14 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Your opinion means not much to me anymore, cyclops, you are so blinded by your blind swallowing of anything to the left. Rest assured that as you continue to defend corruption, you have no respect from me, you don't deserve it, none. You are sinking as low as the people you support.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 10:16 am
@okie,
What's you drug of choice okie?

Oxycontin or Viagra?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 10:19 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Your opinion means not much to me anymore, cyclops, you are so blinded by your blind swallowing of anything to the left. Rest assured that as you continue to defend corruption, you have no respect from me, you don't deserve it, none. You are sinking as low as the people you support.


Okie. I don't even think you'll disagree with me, when I say that the last 8 years of the Bush administration have been chock full of corruption. Not just on the electoral front, but in the executive branch, the department of justice, and many of our government agencies. People have gone to jail over this corruption.

And I never heard you say one ******* word about it. Never. Now, all of a sudden, you portray yourself as some sort of anti-corruption warrior?

Who do you think you're kidding, Okie? Seriously, because it isn't anyone here. You've been full of excuses and turned a blind eye to every Republican misdeed possible, for years. So drop the holier-than-thou act. You don't give two shits about corruption; you only care about attacking Democrats.

Cycloptichorn
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 10:24 am
@okie,
Quote:
Conservatism thrives on individualism, blatham.


Well, I suppose one might conceive of a circular firing squad as an instance of quite perfect individualism.

Here's Rush across from Kristol and Barnes... http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_101608/content/01125106.guest.html

And it's only beginning.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 04:43 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
... I say that the last 8 years of the Bush administration have been chock full of corruption. Not just on the electoral front, but in the executive branch, the department of justice, and many of our government agencies. People have gone to jail over this corruption.

I say the last 8 years of the Bush administration have been chock full of corruption by Democrats as well as corruption by Republicans. The cost to tax payers of corruption by Democrats has far exceeded the cost of the corruption by Republicans to tax payers (e.g., Fannie&Freddie).
okie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 06:01 pm
@ican711nm,
Fannie & Freddie involved in 5 TRILLION in loans, ican, thats 5 TRILLION, and apparently nobody cares to look into this mess right now. I find that criminal.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 07:32 pm
Quote:
GOP Senator Slams McCain Robo Call
October 17, 2008 8:17 PM

ABC News' Teddy Davis and Rigel Anderson report: Embattled Republican Sen. Susan Collins is calling on Sen. John McCain to stop paying for automated phone calls which describe Sen. Barack Obama as having "worked closely" with "domestic terrorist Bill Ayers."

"These kind of tactics have no place in Maine politics," said Collins spokesman Kevin Kelley. "Sen. Collins urges the McCain campaign to stop these calls immediately."

Contacted on Friday by ABC News, the McCain campaign would not say if it was going to heed the request of Collins who serves as his campaign's co-chair in Maine.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/gop-senator-sla.html

Clearly, Sen. Collins is not a true conservative but these robo-calls are true conservatism. Clearly.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 08:05 pm
@okie,
I guess that means you prefer oxycontin.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2008 08:22 pm
Peggy Noon today at the WSJ...

Quote:
In the end the Palin candidacy is a symptom and expression of a new vulgarization in American politics. It's no good, not for conservatism and not for the country. And yes, it is a mark against John McCain, against his judgment and idealism.

I gather this week from conservative publications that those whose thoughts lead them to criticism in this area are to be shunned, and accused of the lowest motives. In one now-famous case, Christopher Buckley was shooed from the great magazine his father invented. In all this, the conservative intelligentsia are doing what they have done for five years. They bitterly attacked those who came to stand against the Bush administration. This was destructive. If they had stood for conservative principle and the full expression of views, instead of attempting to silence those who opposed mere party, their movement, and the party, would be in a better, and healthier, position.

At any rate, come and get me, copper.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122419210832542317.html

Not a true conservative, Peggy.
0 Replies
 
 

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