AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

Financial irresponsibility has never been, nor will it ever be truly conservative policy.

0 Replies

okie wrote:

Financial irresponsibility has never been, nor will it ever be truly conservative policy.

You have to forgive some of the more left leaning idealogues though Okie. They are handicapped with certain cognitive deficiencies and are generally unable to distinguish between "Republican" and "Conservative". No matter how many times it is explained, they can't grasp a concept that all Conservatives are not Republican or that all Republicans are not Conservative.

0 Replies

After years of slavish devotion, the worms are starting to turn, hoping to distance themselves from the slime they helped create.

0 Replies

okie wrote:

Financial irresponsibility has never been, nor will it ever be truly conservative policy.

Like republicans proposing a wall between the US and Mexico, but no plan to fund it?

T
K
O

0 Replies

Diest TKO wrote:

okie wrote:
Financial irresponsibility has never been, nor will it ever be truly conservative policy.

Like republicans proposing a wall between the US and Mexico, but no plan to fund it?

T
K
O

Actually, it has been funded.
But after the dems took over congress they blocked the construction of the wall.

0 Replies

MM is right that the wall has been funded; however the concept of the wall was poorly thought out by ALL who proposed it. The wall would be under construction now was it not for objections of land owners who don't want a wall blocking access to the river essential for their livestock. Obviously Mexican landowners are equally unlikely to allow a wall to be erected on their side. A virtual wall so far hasn't worked out, but I suspect they'll keep working on that.

0 Replies

okie wrote:

Financial irresponsibility has never been, nor will it ever be truly conservative policy.

To quote Cheney, "Reagan taught us that deficits don't matter".

So, who or what is wrong or right in this economics formulation and how is it conservative or not conservative?

0 Replies

Maybe if Cheney's comments were put into their full context instead of excerpted for political smearing by the left, it might be self explanatory.

I think it is far more constructive to a discussion to refrain from taking one phrase and making it look like what a person is all about. And I think most conservatives also understand that no person will be right 100% of the time and that no person has the ability to speak for the whole.

0 Replies

Quote:

Maybe if Cheney's comments were put into their full context instead of excerpted for political smearing by the left, it might be self explanatory.

Excuse me. What context is missing from that quote? When you've answered that, please go on to answer the questions I posed to okie. Is such an economic theory conservative or something else?

Quote:

The president had promised to cut taxes, and he did. Within six months of taking office, he pushed a trillion dollars worth of tax cuts through Congress.
But O'Neill thought it should have been the end. After 9/11 and the war in Afghanistan, the budget deficit was growing. So at a meeting with the vice president after the mid-term elections in 2002, Suskind writes that O'Neill argued against a second round of tax cuts.

"Cheney, at this moment, shows his hand," says Suskind. "He says, 'You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.' O'Neill is speechless."

"It was not just about not wanting the tax cut. It was about how to use the nation's resources to improve the condition of our society," says O'Neill. "And I thought the weight of working on Social Security and fundamental tax reform was a lot more important than a tax reduction."

Did he think it was irresponsible? "Well, it's for sure not what I would have done," says O'Neill.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/60minutes/main592330.shtml

0 Replies

ps... there was no intention or attempt to smear any individual in the quotation or the questions presented to okie.

What I intended to do was to have him address the question of whether the economic policies forwarded by this administration (exemplified by that quote) represent traditional 'conservative' economics or something else.

0 Replies

I think Cheney's remark, immediately followed by a comment re the GOP's successful re-election effort, was that the deficit in that regard was not an issue. I could be wrong since I can't find the full context but only the excerpt repeated again and again and again by typically anti-GOP, anti-conservative, anti-Bush media sources.

As for the difference between Cheney and O'Neills point of view, the Bush tax cuts produced an unprecedented inflow of cash into the national treasury. O'Neill was wrong about that. As for the deficit, it was not due to the tax cuts but due to Congress spending more than was taken in. Irresponsible spending is not a Conservative value and the GOP did not emulate conservative principles when they agreed to irresponsible spending.

That is what causes a lot of deficits don't you think?

0 Replies

mysteryman wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:
okie wrote:
Financial irresponsibility has never been, nor will it ever be truly conservative policy.

Like republicans proposing a wall between the US and Mexico, but no plan to fund it?

T
K
O

Actually, it has been funded.
But after the dems took over congress they blocked the construction of the wall.

Could you provide a link outlining the proposed budget?

T
K
O

0 Replies

There is something near 2 trillion dollars in the Bush Administration that has not been funded. Conservatism is a joke in the finanacial sense. Three blind mice leading dum and dumber into never-never land Rolling Eyes

just waiting for a Dem to become President so you have someone to blame and whine about. Jesus H Christ, get a life NeoCons!

0 Replies

Um, the current budget is a DEMOCRAT budget. The President cannot pass a budget. All he can do is submit a budget to Congress for consideration, and when the opposition party is in power, the President's budget is dead on arrival.

The Democrats have control of both houses of Congress, chair the budget committee and the appropriations committee, and have all the power in the world to control the shots.

The Democrats had control of Congress before 2000 and were fiscally irresponsible. It cost them control of Congress in 1994.

The GOP implemented conservative principles prior to 2000 and dragged a reluctant President Clinton into a balanced budget. To Clinton's credit, he didn't prevent that happening.

After the initial crisis of 9/11 had stablilized, the GOP in control of both house of Congress plus the White House was not fiscally responsible and they abandoned those conservative principles. It cost them their control of Congress in 2006.

It's now the Democrats' baby. They can be responsible or not. So far they seem to have chosen the 'not'.

0 Replies

You are so still lost, find your own way out dude :wink:

"Ignorance is preferable to error, and
He is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than
He who believes what is wrong."
-Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782)

0 Replies

Are you saying that the Democrats can't pass or defeat a budget? Are you honestly suggesting that BillW?

0 Replies

I feel your pain foxy.......

0 Replies

Foxfyre wrote:

... the President's budget is dead on arrival.

Is it any wonder?

0 Replies

Foxfyre wrote:

I think Cheney's remark, immediately followed by a comment re the GOP's successful re-election effort, was that the deficit in that regard was not an issue. I could be wrong since I can't find the full context but only the excerpt repeated again and again and again by typically anti-GOP, anti-conservative, anti-Bush media sources.

As for the difference between Cheney and O'Neills point of view, the Bush tax cuts produced an unprecedented inflow of cash into the national treasury. O'Neill was wrong about that. As for the deficit, it was not due to the tax cuts but due to Congress spending more than was taken in. Irresponsible spending is not a Conservative value and the GOP did not emulate conservative principles when they agreed to irresponsible spending.

That is what causes a lot of deficits don't you think?

Do you hold that tax cuts are always good? Do you hold that this theory is a traditional conservative theory?

0 Replies

blatham wrote:

Do you hold that tax cuts are always good? Do you hold that this theory is a traditional conservative theory?

Tax cuts are usually good if spending is equally considered.

Here is the scenario. I see it as a tug of war. Liberals are tugging for more spending programs and higher taxes and Conservatives have argued for cutting spending and taxes. The main problem is that to get elected, it is becoming more and more the case where more programs are being promised to voters, thus spending keeps spiraling out of control, not only due to new programs but largely due to old programs built in growth rates of spending, example social security, medicare, etc. Entitlement spending is virtually impossible to slow down, due to these entitlement groups screaming bloody murder any time any little dent in their checks are suggested.

Add to this the argument that tax cuts may at certain times stimulate tax revenues, but of course there is disagreement among economists on this issue, and it is virtually impossible to determine exactly what happens because so many other economic factors also affect the scenario.

So liberals and Democrats promise more programs and more taxes, which will break the country, and Republicans promise more programs and less taxes, which will also break the country. I think we should return to conservative policies, which I see little chance of happening any time soon, unless circumstances or economic reality can somehow force it. We see that in California where deficits are not allowed for in the long run, the state will need to pay the piper of go flat broke.

0 Replies

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know