AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

Cycloptichorn wrote:

How tendentious; you know he meant 'health care reform.'

Cycloptichorn

I don't know a single Republican who opposes health care reform either.

And the more dependency "A" can create among the people, the more power "A" acquires.

But have they seriously threatened to take away any government salaries, programs, benefits, or contracts upon which large numbers of people have become dependent?

Foxfyre wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

How tendentious; you know he meant 'health care reform.'

Cycloptichorn

I don't know a single Republican who opposes health care reform either.

Then you don't know any Republicans; for your elected leaders are all opposing health care reform, are unwilling to compromise in the slightest, and say they are expressing your wishes in doing so.

Cycloptichorn

I think Steyn's observations are interesting and provocative. I am interested in discussing the concept. You apparently are not or do not have a clue what the concept is. That is cool but you could have just said so in the first place. It is not my thesis. It is Mark Steyn's thesis, therefore I have no obligation to defend or support it. My interest here is to discuss it.

Perhaps we can agree that we both should have a good day and I will continue to discuss it with anybody else who might find the concept interesting.

Great lip service in great sounding generalities.

But I think he isn't considering a 'competitive model' outside the concept of who is more effective at creating the greatest dependency among the electorate. Yes, he refers specifically to the Obama administration throwing spaghetti at the wall and the GOP (futilely at this point) plucking away strands that stick, but I suspect that he would note that if it was the GOP in power, they would be the ones throwing the spaghetti.

Obama believes in “the fierce urgency of now”, and fierce it is. That’s where all the poor befuddled sober centrists who can’t understand why the Democrats keep passing incoherent 1,200-page bills every week are missing the point. If “health care” were about health care, the devil would be in the details. But it’s not about health or costs or coverage; it’s about getting over the river and burning the bridge. It doesn’t matter what form of governmentalized health care gets passed as long as it passes. Once it’s in place, it will be “reformed”, endlessly, but it will never be undone. Same with a lot of the other stuff: Keep throwing the spaghetti at the wall. The Republicans may pick off the odd strand but, if you keep it coming fast enough, by the end of Obama’s first year the wall will be a great writhing mass of pasta entwined like copulating anacondas in some jungle simulacrum of Hef’s grotto. And that’s a good image of how government will slither into every corner of your life: You can try and pull one of those spaghetti strings out but it’ll be all tied up with a hundred others and you’ll never untangle them.

"But don't tell me Republicans are opposing health care or health care reform. They aren't. They ARE opposing health care reform that they know is designed by opportunists for fools."

so now they ARE fighting it?

Ask Foxie to produce one republican who supports health care reform.

There are none; zilch, nada, zero. They are the party of "no." with no recommendations of their own. They just want to defeat Obama's primary legislation.

Rockhead wrote:

"But don't tell me Republicans are opposing health care or health care reform. They aren't. They ARE opposing health care reform that they know is designed by opportunists for fools."

so now they ARE fighting it?

They are not fighting real healthcare reform. They are fighting programs and proposals that they know won't deliver as promised

, that take away freedoms, choices, and opportunities, that squelch initiative, that socializes 17% more of the American economy, and that creates more huge and unsustainable entitlement programs.

Just as the measures that would have allowed GM and Chrysler to actually heal and become profitable were never allowed on the table, neither are the very first steps of making our healthcare system better and more affordable even being considered.

But don't tell me Republicans are opposing health care or health care. They aren't. They ARE opposing government initiatives labeled as 'reform' that they know are designed by opportunists for fools.

Foxfyre wrote:

But I think he isn't considering a 'competitive model' outside the concept of who is more effective at creating the greatest dependency among the electorate. Yes, he refers specifically to the Obama administration throwing spaghetti at the wall and the GOP (futilely at this point) plucking away strands that stick, but I suspect that he would note that if it was the GOP in power, they would be the ones throwing the spaghetti.

Well, I'm not the least bit familiar with Steyn but I'd be surprised if he was known as a neutral observer. I took a look around the Nation Review and I don't buy that he was making a non-partisan point (or that the NR encourages much of that...)

Mr Steyn wrote:

Obama believes in “the fierce urgency of now”, and fierce it is. That’s where all the poor befuddled sober centrists who can’t understand why the Democrats keep passing incoherent 1,200-page bills every week are missing the point. If “health care” were about health care, the devil would be in the details. But it’s not about health or costs or coverage; it’s about getting over the river and burning the bridge. It doesn’t matter what form of governmentalized health care gets passed as long as it passes. Once it’s in place, it will be “reformed”, endlessly, but it will never be undone. Same with a lot of the other stuff: Keep throwing the spaghetti at the wall. The Republicans may pick off the odd strand but, if you keep it coming fast enough, by the end of Obama’s first year the wall will be a great writhing mass of pasta entwined like copulating anacondas in some jungle simulacrum of Hef’s grotto. And that’s a good image of how government will slither into every corner of your life: You can try and pull one of those spaghetti strings out but it’ll be all tied up with a hundred others and you’ll never untangle them.

Sounds like more pablum and fear-mongering to me.

what clever wording you use to conceal your real intent...

why is that?

Quote:

Ask Foxie to produce one republican who supports health care reform.

There are none; zilch, nada, zero. They are the party of "no." with no recommendations of their own. They just want to defeat Obama's primary legislation.

My mom has been a registered republican for at least 50 years.
And she does support healthcare reform.

So your statement that "There are none; zilch, nada, zero" that support healthcare reform is obviously false.

Foxfrye wrote:

But don't tell me Republicans are opposing health care or health care. They aren't. They ARE opposing government initiatives labeled as 'reform' that they know are designed by opportunists for fools.

They sure as hell are! I have conversations with dyed-in-the-wool Republicans every day. They aren't hiding behind (or under) some umbrella name like MAC - these folks are Republicans through-and-through and proud of it and they are Absolutely Positively against health care for anyone who doesn't currently have it or reform for anyone who does (particularly their own Medicare).

know some who don't want to lose their Senior Advantage Plan etc. and have it replaced with some inhumane cattle herded program.