55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 02:42 pm
@Debra Law,
Quote:
She fails to understand that our modern day families are not choosing between a cruise on a luxury liner or a membership at the posh country club. They're struggling to survive.


Then they're not really MACs. If they were MACs, they would buck up and quit whining. Do you hear whining from the Rockefellers, the Mellons, the Fords, the Vanderbilts, ... .
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 02:52 pm
@JTT,
Don't forget Gates, the Waltons, Adelson, Allen, Anthony, Ballmer, Buffett, and Allison.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 02:55 pm
@Thomas,
I've just looked it up: from the ten largest private health insurers, seven have offices in our town (70,000 inhabitants) - but only three out of 200 from the mandatory system. (They are trying to eliminate personal costs were possible: my company was actually founded as an online/mail/phone only company.)
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 05:21 pm
Quote:
Conservatives Now Outnumber Liberals in All 50 States, Says Gallup Poll
Monday, August 17, 2009
By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief

(CNSNews.com) - Self-identified conservatives outnumber self-identified liberals in all 50 states of the union, according to the Gallup Poll.

At the same time, more Americans nationwide are saying this year that they are conservative than have made that claim in any of the last four years.

In 2009, 40% percent of respondents in Gallup surveys that have interviewed more than 160,000 Americans have said that they are either “conservative” (31%) or “very conservative” (9%). That is the highest percentage in any year since 2004.

Only 21% have told Gallup they are liberal, including 16% who say they are “liberal” and 5% who say they are “very liberal.”

Thirty-five percent of Americans say they are moderate.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/52602
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 05:31 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Quote:
Conservatives Now Outnumber Liberals in All 50 States, Says Gallup Poll


Everyone who doesn't want government-run death panels deciding to kill the elderly and the disabled, please raise your hand!

Everyone raises their hand.

Interpretation: Morally-superior Conservatives now outnumber those evil Libruls who want to kill your granny.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 05:33 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxie, I'm not sure where you got your numbers from, but this is what I found - according to Gallup Polls.
Quote:
Selected Trend on Party Affiliation: 2004-2009


...........................Republicans Independents Democrats


2009 Jul 17-19..........26.......................39......................33

2009 Jul 10-12..........29.......................33.......................37

2009 Jun 14-17..........29......................37.......................32

2009 May 29-31........26......................37........................35

2009 May 7-10...........32.....................34.........................32

2009 Apr 20-21..........27.....................36.........................36

2009 Apr 6-9..............24.....................40.........................35

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 05:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This is also from Gallup.
Quote:

May 18, 2009
GOP Losses Span Nearly All Demographic Groups
Only frequent churchgoers show no decline in support since 2001
by Jeffrey M. Jones

PRINCETON, NJ -- The decline in Republican Party affiliation among Americans in recent years is well documented, but a Gallup analysis now shows that this movement away from the GOP has occurred among nearly every major demographic subgroup. Since the first year of George W. Bush's presidency in 2001, the Republican Party has maintained its support only among frequent churchgoers, with conservatives and senior citizens showing minimal decline.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 05:47 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Foxie, I'm not sure where you got your numbers from,

Why wouldn't you be sure? Foxfyre explicitly linked to this CNS story, which in turn references this article on gallup.com. Not sure where she got her numbers from? Just follow the links already!

Debra: The question Gallup asked wasn't, "everyone who doesn't want government-run death panels deciding to kill the elderly and the disabled, please raise your hand!" It was, "how would you describe your political views?" So, although I often had to complain about Foxfyre peddling bogus interpretations, this is not one of them.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 06:03 pm
@Thomas,
If that's the case, Gallup is conflicted in its own polls. Which numbers are we supposed to believe? You must have the answers; I don't.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 06:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
If that's the case, Gallup is conflicted in its own polls.

Why so? Foxfyre's Gallup poll asked Americans how they would describe their politics, where the five possible choices were "very conservative", "conservative", "moderate", "liberal", and "very liberal". Your Gallup poll asks about affiliation with the Republican party vs. the Democratic party. The polls conflict only if you assume that conservatism necessarily equals affiliation the Republican party, and liberalism necessarily equals affiliation with the Democratic party. This is not the case, as Foxfyre would be the first to tell you.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 06:32 pm
@Thomas,
Well, tracking by most of the polling agencies have shown the trend that the majority of voters were liberal. So all of a sudden, depending on how the question is asked, that turns around the whole issue of party affiliation vs their politics?

From Miller-Mccune.com.
Quote:
In April 2009 NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll reported 19 percent of Americans are "strictly independent," while another 23 percent call themselves independent but "lean" either Republican or Democratic. That poll found an almost equal number of "leaners" toward each party, while the Pew survey found a significantly higher percentage lean Democrat than Republican.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 06:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Why are the Independents being ignored? They make or break an election. The country is center-right. The country is not liberal, other than for those oases in a few urban areas or parts of the country.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 06:41 pm
@Foofie,
Why are the independents being ignored? I know of no such thing.
According to most of the polls by polling agencies during the recent past, they have essentially shown that democrats outnumber republicans. Even during the last presidential election, many conservative states voted for Obama.

Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 06:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Why are the independents being ignored? I know of no such thing.
According to most of the polls by polling agencies during the recent past, they have essentially shown that democrats outnumber republicans. Even during the last presidential election, many conservative states voted for Obama.




There are more Democrats than Republicans, but a large segment of the voting population are Independents. Ignore them and the comparison of Democrats to Republicans means nothing.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 06:50 pm
@Foofie,
That's because you don't understand how voting happens in this country.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 07:33 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Well, tracking by most of the polling agencies have shown the trend that the majority of voters were liberal.

Can you show me the polls on which you base that assertion?

cicerone imposter wrote:
So all of a sudden, depending on how the question is asked, that turns around the whole issue of party affiliation vs their politics?

I can only guess. One guess would be that respondents reply one way on a buzzword basis -- "are you liberal or conservative?" -- and some other way when you ask more specific questions: Do you receive Social Security? Are you happy with it? Are you happy with your community's public schools? Would you want to improve them even if you'd had to pay higher taxes? Discrepancies like this are quite frequent.

Another guess that comes to mind is that a lot of Democrats in 2006 and 2008 won seats in Congress by appealing to conservative swing voters. Their campaign messages were much more pro-gun, pro-religion, anti-abortion-ish, etc. I presume that the Democrats attracted quite a lot of self-identified conservatives in 2006 and 2008 -- and that they still do.

But these are all guesses. I don't actually know.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 07:49 pm
@Thomas,
nimh has posted many of those polls in the past; I'm not sure I can find those.

At least you admit you are only guessing. The impression I've been getting from my reading of articles on this subject is that most voters do not change their real party affiliation, but instead call themselves "independent" when they are unhappy with their party, but they still have a tendency to vote party line. I think a good example of that happened during the last election when many said they were independent, and the number for republicans dropped by almost a similar percentage. Some also voted for Obama, because they were unhappy with Bush for the most part, and many felt the conservative party lost their way.

These are also only impressions that I have garnered from my reading of many materials on this subject. I'd probably bet a beer on it, but not much more.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 08:09 pm
Not all Conservatives are Republicans. Not all Liberals are Democrats.

Therefore, IF Conservatives outnumber Liberals, THEN it remains to be seen whether the Republicans or the Democrats will obtain a majority of THOSE VOTING. IF the Republicans were to turn clearly conservative before 2010, THEN I WOULD BET they would obtain majorities in both houses of Congress--with some re-elected members turning conservative ... despite perpetrations by ACORN, et al, of voter fraud.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 08:53 pm
@ican711nm,
If this or that is meaningless based on your first sentence. What really happens to most voters is that they "normally" vote party line of the two major parties. It's the swing votes that determines elections, not that they changed their party affiliation. Democrats have a liberal bias, and republicans "should" have a conservative bias, and most do when they vote.

I call myself an independent, but I will vote for the candidate that I believe will do the best job for our country irregardless of party affiliation. I would have voted for McCain of nine years ago, but changed my mind when I saw the man change when he ran in 2008. His choice for VP was way off the mark, and he changed his mind on many issues depending on how polls were running at the time. He stopped in the middle of his campaign to get the votes in the bailout plan, but he really didn't influence anybody after his arrival in Washington which turned out as a media circus for him but a dud for his political career.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 11:55 pm
@cicerone imposter,
And instead you voted for this guy that advocates the weirdest of the weird ideas?

By the way, when I post this stuff, don't blame me, blame the guy that is on the video for the dangerous sounding proposal.

0 Replies
 
 

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