AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Just because the GOP doesnt have the power to make it illegal doesnt negate the fact the there were lunatics on the left that made that charge, along with the other scare tactics that Fox mentioned.

Why else would the Left be so adament that any acceptable candidate be pro choice? And why is a pro life stance by anybody so thoroughly condemned?

Your alleged pro-life stance (while that life is in the womb) is not condemned (although you don't give a damn about that that life after its born); it's your anti-choice stance that is intolerable. You strive to use the power of the state to force your anti-choice stance on everyone else in society .

1 Reply

Make it simple.

In Congress, how many Democrats are pro-life and how many Republicans are pro-choice.

I predict more diversity on the Dem side on this matter.

T
K
O

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God's abortions.

Miscarriage is, of course, God's caring decision to terminate the existence of a fertilized ovum. Why He chooses to do this at rates comparable to or greater than human-induced abortion remains a mystery to us.

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Conservatives are mostly content to allow God to be God. Conservatives mostly do not assume God's role in deciding when a life s worthy to live and who will be condemned to die without a trial or even a hearing and/or without a twinge of conscience. While there can be justification and necessity for abortion, and it should remain legal for that reason, there is also room to believe there is moral justification for valuing all life, especially that of the innocent.

Even a liberal can understand the principle that just because something is legal, it is not automatically virtuous.

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Lest those who think those showing up at the Town Hall meetings are "Astro turf" as the President describes them or "unAmerican" as Pelosi describes them or 'organized professional protesters' as the Democrat talking heads describe them, the polls are showing that those folks are pretty darn mainstream.

And that is the problem for the President and Congress who seem hell bent on furthering their own agenda and the people can be damned.

Quote:

Support for Congressional Health Care Reform Falls to New Low
Tuesday, August 11, 2009
Public support for the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats has fallen to a new low as just 42% of U.S. voters now favor the plan. That’s down five points from two weeks ago and down eight points from six weeks ago.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/august_2009/support_for_congressional_health_care_reform_falls_to_new_low

Quote:

32% Favor Single-Payer Health Care, 57% Oppose
Monday, August 10, 2009
Thirty-two percent (32%) of voters nationwide favor a single-payer health care system where the federal government provides coverage for everyone. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 57% are opposed to a single-payer plan.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/august_2009/32_favor_single_payer_health_care_57_oppose

Quote:

On Health Care, 51% Fear Government More Than Insurance Companies
Monday, August 10, 2009
When it comes to health care decisions, 51% of the nation’s voters fear the federal government more than private insurance companies. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 41% hold the opposite view and fear the insurance companies more. Seven percent (7%) are not sure who they fear the most.

Among those who have insurance, 53% fear the government more than insurance companies while 39% take the opposite view. Those without insurance fear the insurance companies more.

Adults under 30 fear the insurance companies more while those in their 40s are evenly divided. However, a solid majority of those over 40 fear the government more.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/august_2009/on_health_care_51_fear_government_more_than_insurance_companies

Poll: Health care views take sympathetic tilt
Updated 32m ago

Quote:

USA TODAY GALLUP POLL
USA TODAY
WASHINGTON " The raucous protests at congressional town-hall-style meetings have succeeded in fueling opposition to proposed health care bills among some Americans, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds " particularly among the independents who tend to be at the center of political debates.

In a survey of 1,000 adults taken Tuesday, 34% say demonstrations at the hometown sessions have made them more sympathetic to the protesters' views; 21% say they are less sympathetic.

Independents by 2-to-1, 35%-16%, say they are more sympathetic to the protesters now.

The findings are unwelcome news for President Obama and Democratic congressional leaders, who have scrambled to respond to the protests and in some cases even to be heard. From Pennsylvania to Texas, those who oppose plans to overhaul the health care system have asked aggressive questions and staged noisy demonstrations.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-08-12-poll-12_N.htm

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

All Rasmussen polls, because you can't find any other pollster who produces the same results; therefore, to be discounted.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

You're certainly welcome to post any recent contrary polling results by other pollsters. The fact that they are hard to find is almost certainly not because they haven't been done, but because the mainstream Obama press has shelved or buried them because they don't look good for the Democrats right now.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Yes, please polls from sources you trust.

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@Foxfyre,

Usually, polls are an the websites of the polling companies.

Are these companies so much influenced by the "mainstream Obama press" that they don't publish their own polls?

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@Walter Hinteler,

Rasmussen is in the business of polling and takes subscriptions at a hefty fee for those who want more than the basic information he makes public. The last time that I'm aware that he mentioned his own client base, it was about evenly split between Democrats and Republicans that he could identify anyway.

Most polling institutions are commissioned by a political party or news organization or special interest group to conduct a poll. And no, they don't publish their own polls as the poll is the property of whatever organization commissioned it and paid for it.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

You're certainly welcome to post any recent contrary polling results by other pollsters. The fact that they are hard to find is almost certainly not because they haven't been done, but because the mainstream Obama press has shelved or buried them because they don't look good for the Democrats right now.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/08/04/rel11b.pdf

27. From everything you have heard or read so far, do you favor or oppose Barack Obama's plan to
reform health care?

July 31-Aug. 3 June 26-28
Favor 50% 51%
Oppose 45% 45%
No opinion 5% 4%

http://www.pollingreport.com/health.htm

"Who do you trust to do a better job handling health care: President Obama or the Republicans in Congress?"

7/27 - 8/3/09
President Obama 46
Republicans in Congress 37
Unsure 16

That took one minute of searching. You haven't found other sources, because you never even bother to look for contrary information. And why would you? Ras tells you exactly what you want to hear, predictably. It's comforting.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Rasmussen's polling is via likely voters only.

From your site indicating an over representation of at least one minority group and not indicating that these are likely voters:
Favor strongly 23%
Favor only moderately 27%
Oppose only moderately 12%
Oppose strongly 33%
No opinion 5%

If I was President Obama, I would not like those numbers.

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@Foxfyre,

Thanks.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I like the mix of polls that polltracker at this site provides

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?parm1=5

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/polltracker/

Quote:

SurveyUSA
American Research Group
American Association For Public Opinion Research
Gallup Poll
Pew Research
Zogby Poll
Marist College Institute for Public Opinion
Quinnipiac University Poll
Pollster.com
Field Poll
Mason-Dixon Polling & Research
CBS News/New York Times Poll
ABC News/Washington Post Poll
Cook Political Report Poll
Rasmussen Report
Electoral-Vote.com

http://www.pollster.com/

looking at the results from only one or two pollers seems, I dunno, not useful

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@Debra Law,

http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/jobapproval-obama.php

http://www.pollster.com/Obama44JobApprovalr.png

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Rasmussen's polling is via likely voters only.

From your site indicating an over representation of at least one minority group and not indicating that these are likely voters:
Favor strongly 23%
Favor only moderately 27%
Oppose only moderately 12%
Oppose strongly 33%
No opinion 5%

If I was President Obama, I would not like those numbers.

Ras uses a 'likely voter' screen which is heavily favorable to his positions: older folks are far more likely to be Republican than younger ones, and he counts them as much more likely to vote.

He also uses a Dem-Republican breakdown which does not match any other polling, as far as I can tell.

Both of these factors are specifically designed to favor the Republican position every time. It doesn't take a genius to figure this stuff out.

Cycloptichorn

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth, Please continue to re-post this graph on all the threads okie and Foxie are participants. They love to use Ras that doesn't even come close.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

If you remove Rasmussen from the mix, his numbers get significantly better instantly. In fact, removing Ras has more impact on that graph than any other pollster - by far.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

The numbers get better, but they're still not good.

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@ehBeth,

Well we were focusing on opinion of healthcare reform, but yes, the President's overall approval rating has also been sinking in all polls. Rasmussen, using likely voters only, has him at the lowest. Quinnipac gives him barely better ratings in a recent poll.

But most think the reason Obama is losing ground in overall approval ratings is mostly based on the controversial healthcare reform issue. If the Senate decides to pick up the Cap and Trade issue again though, you can look for the President's approval ratings to tank even further because Americans are realizing that they can make a difference by demanding to be heard.

If the President would back off the more ridiculous healthcare rebuilding scheme and go to something to improve the existing system in ways that most of us can agree with, and if he put Cap and Trade on the back burner, you would see his approval ratings zoom back into the 60 percentile range in no time at all.

1 Reply

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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