55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 08:30 am
@marsz,
China uses coal for most of their energy today, and their environment is so polluted, many are having breathing problems. One-third of their rivers are also polluted, and many in the big cities no longer drink or cook with tap water.

Their economic growth is killing their people, because they didn't take care of their enviornment.

China is on the brink of total environmental destruction, and the greatest majority in China are very poor. All those tall glass and steel buildings in the big cities are frauds that belies the majority of its citizens.

Even olympic city in Beijing is now a ghost town, with the bird's nest rusting away.



0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  3  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 11:13 am
The President dismisses myths about health care reform and explains why reform is necessary to improve the economy.

0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 11:42 am
This is interesting.
A dem congressman who chairs a house committee, is blocking a subpoena to be issued to Countrywide.

Whats interesting is that this same congressman has received 2 loans from them.
Is he bought and paid for?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=atlmwyTD7xAg

This sure looks fishy to me.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 12:34 pm
@mysteryman,
mm, CLUE: your "fishie" has no bearing on facts or evidence. You're always trying to find problems where none exists. Typical conservative - fear-mongering.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 12:59 pm
@mysteryman,
Even as the administration appears to be illegally compiling their "enemies list" of anybody who says anything they want to be considered 'fishy', their own rhetoric is sounding more and more like anybody who opposes them should not be saying anything at all. It's becoming damn apparent that our opinions won't be considered at all.

"But I don't want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess. I don't mind cleaning up after them, but don't do a lot of talking." --President Barack Obama 8-7-08.

(Note: Those who think the current Administraton and Congress are 'cleaning up the mess' raise their hand. President Obama's overall approval rating hovers around 50% according to latest two polls while those who think his policies will help remains well below 50%.

And as for Congress
Quote:
Just 18% say Congress has passed any legislation that will significantly improve life in America, down three points over the past two months. Sixty percent (60%) disagree and say Congress has passed no such legislation, the highest level found since early February. . . .

. . . .Only 14% believe most members of Congress are genuinely interested in helping people, while 75% say they are more interested in furthering their own political careers. Those results show little change from June.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_performance


And from the linked Breitbart site with video effectively telling us that if we don't agree with him, we should shut up:
Quote:
Editor's note: In the related links section below you will find interviews with the town hall attendees beaten by union members in Tampa and St. Louis. The man in Tampa says the police officer threatened to arrest him if he tried to file a report on the union members.


http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-dont-want-the-folks-who-created-the-mess-to-do-a-lot-of-talking/
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 01:43 pm
@Foxfyre,
.... and according to Pallin, Obama's "death panel" will kill her child with Down's syndrome.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 01:47 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxie wrote:
Quote:
want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess.


So "we" can clean up the mess? ROFL

GWBush is the one who created this mess; and whether you're willing to admit it or not, some signs of our economy is beginning to show some improvement - and only after six months in office. It took GWBush eight years to destroy it.

So, Foxie, who are the "we," and how do you propose to "fix it?"
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 02:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Lest we forget - especially for people like Foxie who believes they have the solutions for this financial crisis.

From CNNMoney:
Quote:
Worst year for jobs since '45
Annual loss biggest since end of World War II. Unemployment rate rises to 7.2%.



By David Goldman, CNNMoney.com staff writer
Last Updated: January 9, 2009: 12:11 PM ET
Please note that this date is before Obama took over the white house.


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The hemorrhaging of American jobs accelerated at a record pace at the end of 2008, bringing the year's total job losses to 2.6 million or the highest level in more than six decades.

A sobering U.S. Labor Department jobs report Friday showed the economy lost 524,000 jobs in December and 1.9 million in the year's final four months, after the credit crisis began in September.

The unemployment rate rose to 7.2% last month from 6.7% in November - its highest rate since January 1993.


We all know that the unemployment rate was on an upward swing since the end of last year into this year's first quarter. .

Also from CNNMoney:
Quote:
Job loss: Worst in 34 years
Employers slashed 598,000 more jobs in January as unemployment rate climbed to 7.6%.


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Employers slashed another 598,000 jobs off of U.S. payrolls in January, taking the unemployment rate up to 7.6%, according to the latest government reading on the nation's battered labor market.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 02:27 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

ANY person that advocates the use of violence to try and get their message across is WRONG.
There is no need to use violence, and soing so only weakens your position and hurts your cause (whatever your cause is).

As far as I am concerned, the person calling for the people to bring firearms (Scott Oskay) should be held 100% responsible (along with the shooter) if any of his "followers" bring and use firearms.

While I support the right to keep and bear, and I have a concealed weapons permit myself, there is a time and place to carry one and a public meeting where passions are already inflamed is NOT one of them.

And to be honest, if I was a dem congressman and was getting these kind of threats, I would vote FOR the bill just to show I wasnt intimidated by the protesters.


bravo.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 02:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
also bravo.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 02:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
laughed at, maybe... but then i don't dress up for star trek conventions either.. heh, heh, heh...
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 02:46 pm
You guys remember when it was front page news and considered a big deal when Obama asked his cabinet members, staffers etc. to cut $100 million from their combined budgets? We haven't heard much about that since have we, except that they found out they could economize by printing on both sides of paper.

But, according to the National Right to Work folks--(DISCLAIMER: This is a highly biased source with an agenda)--the Administration did find $100 million to cut from the budget even as they asked for many hundreds of thousands to buy more Gulf Streams they and Congress will have at their disposal:

Quote:
Obama Administration Claims Desire to Cut Federal Spending, Places Union Corruption Unit on the Chopping Block
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 10:09 " Will Collins

Here at Freedom@Work, we've spent some time documenting the Obama Administration's efforts to gut basic union transparency guidelines under the guise of saving money. We've also urged concerned readers to get involved to help stop the Department of Labor from rolling back transparency requirements aimed at curbing Big Labor's corrupt practices. Unfortunately, the worst may be yet to come -- the Administration has just announced its potential plans to close the Employment Standards Administration, an office tasked with rooting out union corruption:

The Obama Administration has found a way to cut $100 million from the federal budget and one of the items on the chopping block is an office inside the Department of Labor that conducts oversight of labor unions.

Pursuant to President Obama’s April order that federal agencies come up with away to eliminate $100 million in wasteful spending, White House Budget Chief Peter Orzsag and Cabinet Secretary Christopher Lu issued a 20-page list of items to cut to the president on Monday.

One of the proposed cost-saving measures is the disbanding of the Employment Standards Administration (page 11 in the link), an office in the Department of Labor that has the power to audit and investigate labor unions for corruption and embezzlement. . . .
http://www.nrtw.org/en/blog/welcome-new-era-fiscal-7282009


Is this what everybody was hoping for?

But despite its mission, the NRTW group does have some interesting stuff at their website which, if accurate, does need to be part of the debate.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 03:09 pm
And bless John Leo's heart--I stopped subscribing to the US News & World Report when he left that publication--he is here correctly pointing out the double standard and hypocrisy in the heated rhetoric. I agree with MM & others that there is no excuse for real or threatened violence in public discourse and I agree with almost everybody that shouting matches are not only rude but counterproductive no matter who is doing them.

But to imply that it is only the rightwingers and/or anti-healthcare agenda people who utilize such tactics is absurd on the face of it and dishonest to the core.

Quote:
August 8, 2009
Nancy's Nazi Shock: Did She Forget the Bush Years?
By John Leo

Nancy Pelosi is shocked by the presence of some swastikas at protests against Obamacare. Who ever heard of such a thing? Well, any mildly alert American old enough to remember the anti-war protests of 2003-2007. Images of George Bush with a Hitler mustache and a Nazi uniform was everywhere at swastika-choked marches and rallies. "Stop the Fourth Reich-Visualize Nuremburg," said one sign at a Hollywood march. "The Fuhrer already in his bunker," said another. Lots of Nazi regalia appeared at protests in Pelosi's San Francisco as well.

On far-left Internet sites, where basic Bush-Is-Hitler commentary became too familiar to attract attention, Bush aides were quickly assigned Nazi roles; Tom Ridge was the new Himmler and Colin Powell became Nazi Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop; Ari Fleisher, Karen Hughes and Karl Rove were all Josef Goebbels figures. Some thought Vice President Cheney was the most important Hitler figure - he commands "storm-trooper legions," said famous crackpot Lyndon LaRouche.

One fevered lefty connected Bush to Nero as well as Hitler, saying "Nero burned Rome, Hitler burned the Reichstag and Bush burned the World Trade Center."

An even more inventive commenter managed to link Rove to Josef Mengele, the depraved Nazi doctor nicknamed the Angel of Death: "Bush made up stories about John McCain, just as Josef Mengele conducted medical experiments on children in Auschwitz." What?

Donald Rumsfeld was the new Rommel. The Action Coalition of Taos, New Mexico, however, thought Rumsfeld was the real Hitler, since, like Adolf, he had a mountain retreat. In an op-ed published in Florida, Air Force veteran Douglas Herman, disagreed, saying Rumsfeld was more like Goering, because both men had been fighter pilots.

Mainstream commentary featured Nazi references too. Both Senator Robert Byrd and billionaire Democrat George Soros said Bush reminded them of Herman Goering.

During the 2004 presidential campaign, Al Gore used the term "brownshirts" (Nazi street thugs) to refer to Republican computer teams assigned to respond to criticism of Bush and the Iraq war.

Vanity Fair magazine nominated Richard Perle for the Goebbels role, running photos of both men under the headline "Separated at Birth?"

New York Times columnist Frank Rich managed to work in a reference to a famous Nazi filmmaker. He said a Showtime program on 9/11 was so favorable to Bush that it is "best viewed as a fitting memorial to Leni Riefenstahl."

The Rev. Andrew Greeley, sociologist and novelist, depicted Bush as a Hitler figure who carried American over to "the dark side."

Federal appeals judge Guido Calabresi offered a comparatively mild Nazi reference, saying the Bush's rise to power was reminiscent of the rise of Hitler and Mussolini, with the Supreme Court pushing him into the presidency with the Bush v. Gore decision.

Bush reminded the left of non-Nazi villains as well. He was depicted as Attila the Hun, serial killer Ted Bundy, Mussolini, Ahab, Hannibal Lecter, the Anti-Christ and Frankenstein's monster (on the cover of the British edition of book by New York Times columnist Paul Krugman).

As far as we know, Nancy Pelosi never complained about any of this. Maybe she didn't notice.

John Leo is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute. He edits Minding the Campus, the Institute's web site on America's universities, and is a contributing editor to the City Journal.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/08/nancys_nazi_shock_did_she_forget_the_bush_years_97812.html
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 03:11 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:

Is this what everybody was hoping for?


So, when it comes to budget cuts, you only want things cut which you don't think are important?

This is the reality of the 'cut the budget' mantra that you Conservatives go on about: important things get cut out. If you are complaining about this now, what would you feel like if there were serious cuts in many areas which you considered important?

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 03:14 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Did you miss the part about one place they want to cut $100 million is by abolishing the one agency charged to monitor and investigate as necessary the President's union buddies? Or the part about them wanting hundreds of millions of additional dollars spent on new airplanes for the Administration and Congress to use?

But we are going to have the most ethical administration in the history of the world aren't we. Just ask the President who looked straight into the camera and earnestly and sincerely pledged that on his honor during the campaign.

And recession? What recession?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 03:59 pm
@Foxfyre,
Oh, I didn't know that the recession was already over! LOL How's that for fast action by Obama? I figured it would have taken at least seven years.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 04:34 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

Is this what everybody was hoping for?


So, when it comes to budget cuts, you only want things cut which you don't think are important?

This is the reality of the 'cut the budget' mantra that you Conservatives go on about: important things get cut out. If you are complaining about this now, what would you feel like if there were serious cuts in many areas which you considered important?

Cycloptichorn


well, i guess we could keep the union oversight if we cut the entire department of faith based initiatives instead.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 04:40 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
That would be fine with me so long as the federal government cuts out all charitable outlays of any kind. That would be my vote as there is no way that such can be dispensed from the public treasury honestly, ethically, or without it being a corrupting influence on both the givers and receivers.

But if the Federal government is going to do it at all, then do it through organizations that already have an infrastructure and trained staff in place instead of re-inventing the wheel with every new program.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 04:42 pm
@Foxfyre,
When you say of "any kind," GWBush initiated the government assistance to religious based charities. Didn't hear too much complaints when he did that, but now under Obama those outlays should be stopped?
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 04:45 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

That would be fine with me so long as the federal government cuts out all charitable outlays of any kind. That would be my vote as there is no way that such can be dispensed from the public treasury honestly, ethically, or without it being a corrupting influence on both the givers and receivers.

But if the Federal government is going to do it at all, then do it through organizations that already have an infrastructure and trained staff in place instead of re-inventing the wheel with every new program.


so then why are you so down on the unions? would you be happier if the government ran the various guilds?

i'm not all that much for unions, but the last 20 or so years i can see where if they didn't exist at all, working conditions and pay could easily fall back to the bad old days.
 

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