AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@DontTreadOnMe,

And now the left is calling the people opposed to the health care bill some of the same names.

If it was wrong then, its wrong now.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

she did ask the cop why. all he said was secret service set him on her.

you still don't address that she was still outside on public property.

2 Replies

@DontTreadOnMe,

So were the people at the Hillary and Obama rallies.
Those were held in public high schools.

Whats your point?
As long as everyone got treated the same, there is no problem.

And we cant tell from the video if everyone got the same treatment or not, so we cannot make an honest informed decision based on what is in the video.

And if you wanted to be honest, you would admit that also.

0 Replies

@DontTreadOnMe,

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

she did ask the cop why. all he said was secret service set him on her.

you still don't address that she was still outside on public property.

I don't know where she was. That wasn't clear in the clip either. If security started at the door, then that's where security started.

What you are trying to imply is that she was somehow singled out for unfair treatment. I am saying the whether the policy was good or bad, you cannot rationally come to the conclusion that it was unjustly or wrongly applied from that edited clip.

Should the Clinton people have let me in despite the fact that I refused to carry their sign etc? I didn't see it that way. Should they have allowed other folks to carry in their GOP signs? I didn't see their refusal to allow that as unreasonable either. But I would have had a HUGE problem if the media thought such policy was okay for Clinton and not for the GOP candidate.

0 Replies

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

BTW, I dont know if Pat Leahy had anyone thrown out.
I had to work and didnt watch any of the hearings, but I will take your word for it.

Even if he did, so what?
They may have the right to disrupt meetings, and the people holding the meetings have the right to throw them out or arrest them.

so you would be okay if the people trying to hold these meetings were to have their security teams remove loud and disruptive parties, you'd be okay with that?

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

And now the left is calling the people opposed to the health care bill some of the same names.

If it was wrong then, its wrong now.

demonization is not the best way for things to work.

in any case, i'll have to pick this up later. i have to go and do a session in an hour.

"indian harmonium music". holy cow! no really, Holy Cow! Laughing

1 Reply

@DontTreadOnMe,

Oooh, classical Indian harmonium is definitely an acquired taste. But some harmonium stuff is interesting and even good:

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@Foxfyre,

Quote:

Here’s the first few that came up. Because current news has pushed the Bush administration stuff off the first search pages, I didn’t dig too deeply. This should provide the drift though:

Every single link you posted was a speaker at a local college; I asked you to provide examples of Liberals interrupting Town Hall meetings with their representatives, the same way that Conservatives are doing right now.

There is a big difference. Can you provide evidence that Liberal protesters rudely attempted to intimidate Conservative politicians? I doubt it.

Nice try tho

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@DontTreadOnMe,

Quote:

so you would be okay if the people trying to hold these meetings were to have their security teams remove loud and disruptive parties, you'd be okay with that?

Not only would I be ok with it, I would expect it.
City Council meetings do that, so I would think that a congressman holding a meeting would do the same thing.
The fact that they dont surprises me.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
so you would be okay if the people trying to hold these meetings were to have their security teams remove loud and disruptive parties, you'd be okay with that?

Not only would I be ok with it, I would expect it.
City Council meetings do that, so I would think that a congressman holding a meeting would do the same thing.
The fact that they dont surprises me.

When they do, your bunch starts chanting about fascism and 'not having their voices heard.'

This is for you, MM -

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/07/fox-directs-viewers/

Quote:

Fox News directs viewers to town halls hosted by Democrats.

Earlier today, Fox News publicized the time and location of “gladiatorial” town halls hosted by Democrats " but not Republicans. With “heated” and increasingly confrontational town halls now dominating news coverage, Washington correspondent James Rosen announced he had “obtained a large Excel spreadsheet showing the schedule of town halls for Democratic members of Congress.” Rosen reported the time and location of several town halls, including those for Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) and Sen. Arlen Specter (D-PA). To explain why Fox wasn’t reporting on town halls hosted by Republicans, Rosen assured viewers that if he “had the spreadsheet for the Republican members,” he would “share” that as well:

There's a video of the broadcast at the link. So, please don't try and bullshit me, that Fox News isn't directing people to these town halls, MM.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

John Cole at Balloon Juice had a good observation today:

Quote:

When someone talks back to a cop in his own house, that’s disorderly conduct.

When people make death threats and start fights in public, that’s exercising their First Amendment rights

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

Can you provide evidence that Liberal protesters rudely attempted to intimidate Conservative politicians? I doubt it.

Lets start here...

http://crooksandliars.com/2008/05/27/war-protesters-interrupt-john-mccains-foreign-policy-speech-in-colorado#comment-605538

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/18/protesters-interrupt-palin-and-mccain-speeches/

This one is a video...

http://www.thehotjoints.com/2008/07/04/video-code-pink-idiots-interrupts-bush-at-july-4th-naturalization/

As I find more, I will post them.
Now, I already know you are going to say the links I gave you dont count because they arent "town hall" meetings, but instead are speeches being given by the President and other repub candidates.

But, they are still disruptions, and even you have to admit that.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

All this goes on because conservatives believe that if Obama fails in his health plan, they will end up winning congress in 2010.

I hope the backlash is sooooo bad that they end up with zero reps in congress.

Even the smarter conservatives can't be supporting what their own party is doing to our democracy.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

I never said the news wasnt reporting when and where the meetings would be.
They would be remiss if they didnt.
If they didnt report when and where the meetings are, you would then say that they were trying to stifle the news

But, that does not mean that they are supporting or sponsoring those protests.
And you can find nothing that shows they are.

As for "my bunch" chanting about fascism, thats pure bull!!
"My bunch" believes in free speech, but that does NOT include the right to freely interrupt or otherwise disrupt govt meetings.
And "my bunch" believes that if you do, you pay the consequences.

Now, I cant speak for those that arent "my bunch" so you need to ask them.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
Can you provide evidence that Liberal protesters rudely attempted to intimidate Conservative politicians? I doubt it.

Lets start here...

http://crooksandliars.com/2008/05/27/war-protesters-interrupt-john-mccains-foreign-policy-speech-in-colorado#comment-605538

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/18/protesters-interrupt-palin-and-mccain-speeches/

This one is a video...

http://www.thehotjoints.com/2008/07/04/video-code-pink-idiots-interrupts-bush-at-july-4th-naturalization/

As I find more, I will post them.
Now, I already know you are going to say the links I gave you dont count because they arent "town hall" meetings, but instead are speeches being given by the President and other repub candidates.

But, they are still disruptions, and even you have to admit that.

I do admit that they were disruptive and uncalled for, and what more, you will note that I specifically denounced groups such as Code Pink earlier in the thread.

However - the idea that these protesters are 'peaceful' is pretty funny.

Quote:

Anti-Health Care Reform Protester Encourages Physical Violence, Use Of Firearms
By Brian Beutler - August 7, 2009, 2:20PM

Based on the news that health care events are edging into violence, an anti-health care reform protester in New Mexico named Scott Oskay is calling on his hundreds of online followers to bring firearms to town halls, and to 'badly hurt' SEIU and ACORN counter protesters.

Popularized in part by conservative blogger Michelle Malkin, the hashtag symbol he's using, #iamthemob, has gone viral on twitter, appearing several times a minute according to a recent search.

Anti-reform activists have scheduled a protest outside SEIU Missouri offices tomorrow, and officials there are taking these threats seriously.

Late update: Looks like they're also getting death threats by phone -

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/seiu-weve-gotten-threatening-phone-call-involving-the-second-amendment.php

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/anti-health-care-reform-protester-encourages-physical-violence-use-of-firearms.php

The idea that events like these are going to convince Dem leaders to vote against the health care bill is nuts. It most certainly is not; if anything, it will harden the resolve of those leaders.

So, the bill will likely be passed, and then what are all these angry folks going to do? Move on to the next issue that Rush and Fox News and Glenn Beck get them all whipped up about. The truth is that many of these folks can't get over the fact that Obama won (for whatever reason) and that the Republican party is in the shitter right now, and they feel angry and want to lash out over this.

If your side can't get this under control, it's going to end in violence, and I guarantee that isn't going to attract voters to the Republican party.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Again, you mistake conservative for repub.

Unless you are willing to admit that not all conservatives are repubs, you will always make that mistake.

Unless, you are also willing to admit that ALL liberals, no matter how crazy are dems.
Somehow, I dont think you are willing to do that.

0 Replies

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

I never said the news wasnt reporting when and where the meetings would be.
They would be remiss if they didnt.
If they didnt report when and where the meetings are, you would then say that they were trying to stifle the news

Bullshit! The news rarely if ever reports on where town hall meetings are going to be held, certainly doesn't list them off for their viewers, and absolutely doesn't only list Dem town hall meetings. Don't be dense, MM. Fox News isn't just reporting the location of these meetings for fun, they are instructing people how to get to them so they can protest.

Quote:

But, that does not mean that they are supporting or sponsoring those protests.
And you can find nothing that shows they are.

Total head in the sand attitude by you here. They most certainly are supporting the protest, hell Glenn Beck on Fox helped organize a lot of them and O'reilly and Van Sustren talk about them in glowing terms every day now.

Quote:

As for "my bunch" chanting about fascism, thats pure bull!!
"My bunch" believes in free speech, but that does NOT include the right to freely interrupt or otherwise disrupt govt meetings.
And "my bunch" believes that if you do, you pay the consequences.

Now, I cant speak for those that arent "my bunch" so you need to ask them.

Sorry, but when you look like a duck, walk like a duck, and quack like a duck, people think you are a duck, MM. You can claim all day that you aren't with these folks, but your rhetoric and the people you choose to attack and defend give the lie to that.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

ANY person that advocates the use of violence to try and get their message across is WRONG.
There is no need to use violence, and soing so only weakens your position and hurts your cause (whatever your cause is).

As far as I am concerned, the person calling for the people to bring firearms (Scott Oskay) should be held 100% responsible (along with the shooter) if any of his "followers" bring and use firearms.

While I support the right to keep and bear, and I have a concealed weapons permit myself, there is a time and place to carry one and a public meeting where passions are already inflamed is NOT one of them.

And to be honest, if I was a dem congressman and was getting these kind of threats, I would vote FOR the bill just to show I wasnt intimidated by the protesters.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

You can claim all day that you aren't with these folks, but your rhetoric and the people you choose to attack and defend give the lie to that.

I am most asuredly NOT defending the people disrupting these meetings.
Let me say this again...I DO NOT AGREE WITH THEIR TACTICS OR APPROACH. I 100% OPPOSE IT.

I dont know how to make it any clearer to you.
I also dont support those that say the protesters dont have the right to protest and make their voices heard.

Maybe you cant do it, but I can support the idea and oppose the tactics involved.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
You can claim all day that you aren't with these folks, but your rhetoric and the people you choose to attack and defend give the lie to that.

I am most asuredly NOT defending the people disrupting these meetings.
Let me say this again...I DO NOT AGREE WITH THEIR TACTICS OR APPROACH. I 100% OPPOSE IT.

I dont know how to make it any clearer to you.
I also dont support those that say the protesters dont have the right to protest and make their voices heard.

Maybe you cant do it, but I can support the idea and oppose the tactics involved.

Okay, I'm fine with that statement by you. But this is what the Republican party is nowadays, MM. When you spend a ton of time attacking Dems and defending Republican and Conservative positions, you shouldn't be surprised when you get lumped in together with others who do the same thing.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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