AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@DontTreadOnMe,

If Obama succeeds at turning our Constitutional Republic into a statist dictatorship , all Americans and their country will be hurt.

Those obamacrats that continue to support his success at turning our Constitutional Republic into a statist dictatorship are the real traitors.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

That 415 billion deficit is the deficit as of January 2009. Obama was inaugurated January 20, 2009. Between February 1st, and July 31st, the deficit has increased to "well over a trillion dollars" and growing at an accelerating rate. Obama is primarily responsible for that increase in the deficit since February 1, 2009; not Bush.

Bullshit. You are 100% wrong, as it was Bush, not Obama, who authorized the TARP program and other bailouts in 2008, adding 350 billion dollars to the deficit - not counting the GM bailouts, AIG bailouts, or other bailouts which took place far before Obama took office as prez. That 415 billion deficit also does not include war supplementals in 2008.

As of Jan. 2009, our deficit was well over 1 trillion dollars for the previous year. You are using false terminology, essentially lying.

Quote:

Obama could have materially reduced that deficit growth simply by not increasing expenditures, and not taking property/wealth from those who lawfully earned it and giving it to those who have not lawfully earned it.

Obama said he wants to transfer wealth/property. He is doing that. If he is allowed to continue this much longer, a great number of us--obamacrats as well as conservatives--will be in great trouble.

You are so far off on the first part, it's difficult to take you seriously on the second.

Cycloptichorn

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@ican711nm,

you are one very paranoid dude, pardner.

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@old europe,

I work for the Army and the war is classified into 3 major stages. The first actual combat stage against the nation-state of Hussein's Iraq was quick, lasting from Mar to May 2003. Clear example of vastly superior US Army firepower and soldiering against a third-rate and third-world army with far more bluster than strength. Rumsfield and the Chiefs were quite right in those first few months of the war....and the operation was a raging success.

However, Bush and Rumsfeld completely fumbled the post-combat stablility stage from May 2003 until Jan 2007 by failing to have enough troops initially to enforce the peace and by unwisely completely gutting the Iraqi Army officer corps and alienating Baath party loyalists. This resulted in a blossoming Shiite insurgency and the widespread outbreak of Al-Queda led terrorism throughout the new Iraqi nation. These stability operations were an utter failure and correctly resulted in Rumsfelds' unheralded departure from the DoD in 2006.

Then the Surge of President Bush and Gen Petraeus coupled with the Iraqi's own Awakening movement began in Jan 2007 and led to the relative peacefulness of Iraq today. This represents success.

So I am not afraid to admit that the Iraq war had both its success and its failures.

I'm still waiting for the first liberal with the strength of his/her convictions to admit that Obama's stimulus bill will be a failure if it fails to add 5M more jobs by 17 Feb 2011 according to BLS statistics.

2 Replies

@slkshock7,

Quote:

I'm still waiting for the first liberal with the strength of his/her convictions to admit that Obama's stimulus bill will be a failure if it fails to add 5M more jobs by 17 Feb 2011 according to BLS statistics.

We know this isn't going to happen, so it isn't a realistic thing you are asking for. Obama's stim bill can be quite successful in many ways, yet fail to meet that goal, and still be judged an overall success.

For someone who is quite willing to judge a major fuckup by the last admin as having both 'successes and failures,' you seem pretty set on judging Obama's stim bill on... just one single metric. Not consistent.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

cyclo wrote:

Here's Christine Romer talking about the effects the ARRA has already shown -

Quote:

The role of the Recovery Act is clearest in state and local spending. Sharp falls in revenues and balanced budget requirements have been forcing state and local governments to tighten their belts significantly. But, state and local government spending actually rose at a healthy 2.4% annual rate in the second quarter of 2009. This followed two consecutive quarters of decline, and was the highest growth rate in two years. No one can doubt that the $33 billion of state fiscal relief that has already gone out thanks to the Recovery Act is a key source of this increase.

That's all nice, but is that success? I hardly think so. Without jobs recovery the bill is a failure, pure and simple. And let's both agree to use judges of success and failure that aren't paid by either Democrats or Republicans.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Wow!

Finally you, CI, and you DTOM have unambiguously revealed what you truly are!

I wrote: "I cannot speak for any other conservative, but I want Obama to fail turning our Constitutional Republic into a statist dictatorship that ignores our Constitution."

DTOM pretended to quote me with: "I cannot speak for any other conservatives, but I want Obama to fail." And then DTOM wrote:
"and if he does? you are okay with hurting americans and the country?
traitor. ."

CI you wrote: "they want our president to fail which also means they want our country to fail."

You guys are merely obamacrat propagandists! Are you on salary, fee per post, or are you simply volunteers?

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

cyclo wrote:

For someone who is quite willing to judge a major fuckup by the last admin as having both 'successes and failures,' you seem pretty set on judging Obama's stim bill on... just one single metric. Not consistent.

I'm game...lets agree on a set of metrics and then see how the bill turns out. I've given you one...take any others that were claimed at the outset of the bill in Feb and we'll measure success/failure by that one as well.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Don't they beat all? They've elevated partisanship to the degree they want our president to fail which also means they want our country to fail

So then by your own admission you wanted our country to fail every time you hoped that Bush would fail!!!

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

Quote:

You guys are merely obamacrat propagandists! Are you on salary, fee per post, or are you simply volunteers?

It's the obvious question to ask at this point, certainly. I can speak only for myself, of course, and confess I'm volunteering.

But fair is fair. How about you? Blowjobs from Barbara Bush?

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@ican711nm,

nice try but no. you've made it pretty clear that you want obama to fail on everything.

guys like like you crack me up. you run around squealing about the constitution like the black helecopters are hovering over your house.

and yet, anytime it comes up, you insist that the Freedom Documents of The United States are not a list of liberties, but a second set of commandments that exist for the sole purpose of limiting or taking away personal liberty.

frankly, i don't think you understand what they mean or what the united states is about.

2 Replies

@slkshock7,

slk, When you say "without a jobs recovery," what exactly do you mean?

1 Reply

@slkshock7,

slkshock7 wrote:

cyclo wrote:
For someone who is quite willing to judge a major fuckup by the last admin as having both 'successes and failures,' you seem pretty set on judging Obama's stim bill on... just one single metric. Not consistent.

I'm game...lets agree on a set of metrics and then see how the bill turns out. I've given you one...take any others that were claimed at the outset of the bill in Feb and we'll measure success/failure by that one as well.

Well, I certainly don't agree with this -

Quote:

Without jobs recovery the bill is a failure, pure and simple.

The ARRA was about a lot more than jobs, though that is a key component of it.

I would like to see 4 consecutive quarters of growth in 201o; for lending to increase and foreclosures to decrease; for the job market to have a year of consecutive months of adding more than 150k jobs per month in 2010. You?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Exactly what Obama said when he promised that the economic Recovery and Reinvestment Plan "will create or save three and a half million jobs over the next two years, including nearly 60,000 in Colorado..."

I'm looking for those 3.5M jobs...instead we've lost 1.5M since Feb. I'm even willing to accept the growth of 60,000 in Colorado as a small sign that the stimulus has had some kind of a minor positive impact, but CO labor stats show only a growth of 4000 jobs since Feb.

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@mysteryman,

Mysteryman, it's clear to me now. These guys are propagandists for an obamacrat statist dictatorship. They would make Joesph Paul Goebbels (1897 - 1945) proud. For those who don't know, Goebbels was Hitler's chief propagandist. I was a teenager when Goebbels died. I learned alot about how Nazi propaganda worked from a German immigrant to the United States who was a former German fighter pilot. At the time I met him--many years after Goebbels had died--he still hadn't forgiven himself for allowing himself to be deluded by Goebbel's propagandists to believe and hate what they taught him to believe and hate.

Logic and facts are irrelevant to them unless they can be twisted to advance their agnda. We can point out their inconsistencies every time, but it will make no difference to how they choose to behave.

That's why much of what they post constitutes libels of those with whom they disagree. Their hope is to discourage contrary opinion and honest debate. Failing discouragement, they seek to denigrate those who disagree with them to destroy their credibility, or at least make them less credible.

Excellent examples of their behavior can be found by reading their libels of Foxfyre when she defends her arguments against their criticisms.

In addition, observe how they accuse those who disagree with them of exhibiting exactly the same behavior they do.

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@slkshock7,

slk, Give Obama a little leg room! Most of the stimulus plan money has not been distributed. Can you figure out what that means?

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@DontTreadOnMe,

DTOM, you've made it pretty clear with your above allegation that I have characterized you correctly. I think you know that I don't want Obama to fail on everything. I just want him to fail his effort to replace our Constitutional Republic with a statist dictatorship.
...
Ah ha!
...
More evidence!
...
You appear to think that all Obama wants to achieve is to replace our Constitutional Republic with a statist dictatorship. That is his everything ?

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

These guys are propagandists for an obamacrat statist dictatorship. They would make Joesph Paul Goebbels (1897 - 1945) proud.

This post of yours constitutes libel of those with whom you disagree. You hope to discourage contrary opinion and honest debate. Failing discouragement, you seek to denigrate those who disagree with you to destroy their credibility, or at least make them less credible.

In addition, you accuse those who disagree you of exhibiting exactly the same behaviour you display.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

DTOM, you've made it pretty clear with your above allegation that I have characterized you correctly. I think you know that I don't want Obama to fail on everything. I just want him to fail his effort to replace our Constitutional Republic with a statist dictatorship.
...
Ah ha!
...
More evidence!
...
You appear to think that all Obama wants to achieve is to replace our Constitutional Republic with a statist dictatorship. That is his everything ?

But, Obama is not attempting to replace our government with a Statist dictatorship; he isn't making actions like that at all. He is attempting to pass legislation through the normal democratic process. In fact, he's respecting the process to the degree that it is actively harmful to his goals.

You can disagree with the intentions of the other political party, and that's fine. No problem there, people disagree on stuff. But you ought to be able to point to specific actions Obama is taking which violate the law, and not your nutty interpretations of tax laws, either. If you can't do that, you don't have much of a case.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@DontTreadOnMe,

DTOM, YOU WROTE: "anytime it comes up, you insist that the Freedom Documents of The United States are not a list of liberties, but a second set of commandments that exist for the sole purpose of limiting or taking away personal liberty."

That's what you actually do. I don't do that. I claim the Constitution is a delegation of powers to our federal government plus explicit statements about things the federal government is not granted the power to do. It is the federal government whose liberties are limited. I say the 10th Amendment makes that abundantly clear.

You will probably find a way to also distort what I wrote here to fit your script.

0 Replies

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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