55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 04:19 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

The verdict just came down on Congressman William Jefferson - D - LA - guilty on multiple counts of bribery. No word on what the sentence will be yet, but it could be severe. Possibly well over 200 years.


toss him in. lock the door. throw away key.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 04:20 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

A president does not succeed by signing bills or initiating executive orders. He succeeds by solving problems, and not by making existing problems worse or creating new problems.


so you believe bushy jr. failed?
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 04:22 pm
@ican711nm,
a broken record that does not realized it's broken. and a little bit cracked.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 04:23 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
Because it is "cracked," the sound that emanates becomes more irritating every time it's played.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 04:31 pm
@old europe,
old europe wrote:
If you start counting the victims of a specific government only after their current founding documents were written, then the Federal Republic of Germany, the Russian Federation or the Kingdom of Cambodia are responsible for killing far less human beings than the United States of America.

I am not saying that. I am saying a specific government--the government of the USA--did not exist until March 4,1789, and therefore did not commit "incredible crime" until after it came into existence. The governments that existed prior to that date were either the British government ot the government of a confederation of North American states.
old europe wrote:
If you're saying that it's immaterial when the current founding documents of these contemporary nations were written because incredible crimes have been committed on the soil of those countries earlier, then excluding the victims of slavery on the North American continent doesn't make any sense.

I am not saying that either. I am saying that some previous European and Asian governments committed "incredible crimes" that were committed prior to existing governments. Actually, it was the government of the USA that helped stop those governments from continuing to commit those "incredible crimes" and helped the existing governments to come into existence.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 04:48 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Obama's policies have not decreased the nation's GSP and they have not increased unemployment - the mess made by the Republicans over the last several years, with their insistence that the markets and corporations can 'self-regulate,' is responsible for that.

I claim the mess made by the Democrats in defending and protecting the irresponsible loaning by Fannie and Freddy against Bush's repeated efforts to curtail that loaning is primarily responsible for the recession/depression that began in 2008. The worsening of that recession/depression is a greater mess being made by Obama.

Obama not only emulated Bush's deficit spending he increased it. Obama not only emulated Fannie and Freddy loaning, he increased it. Obama did not emulate Bush's increase in GDP, he decreased it.

What Obama should have done was decrease spending, decrease taxes, and most assuredly decrease Fannie and Freddy loaning. Deficits would not have increased as much as they have. Unemployment would not have increased as much as it has, and GPD would not decreased as much as it has.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 04:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Because it is "cracked," the sound that emanates becomes more irritating every time it's played.


hey.... maybe that's why it skips around so much!! ; )
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 04:51 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
Yes, I believe Bush failed domestically, but not internationally.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 04:58 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Obama's policies have not decreased the nation's GSP and they have not increased unemployment - the mess made by the Republicans over the last several years, with their insistence that the markets and corporations can 'self-regulate,' is responsible for that.

I claim the mess made by the Democrats in defending and protecting the irresponsible loaning by Fannie and Freddy against Bush's repeated efforts to curtail that loaning is primarily responsible for the recession/depression that began in 2008. The worsening of that recession/depression is a greater mess being made by Obama.


You're just plain wrong. The fannie/freddie loans would not have decimated our economy, even if they ALL had failed. What did decimate the economy and destroy banks & trading houses was greed, and the unregulated Credit Default Swap market. You have never displayed any knowledge on this issue whatsoever, Ican.

Quote:
Obama not only emulated Bush's deficit spending he increased it. Obama not only emulated Fannie and Freddy loaning, he increased it. Obama did not emulate Bush's increase in GDP, he decreased it.


Nothing Obama did 'decreased' the GDP, it all began far before he took office.

Quote:
What Obama should have done was decrease spending, decrease taxes, and most assuredly decrease Fannie and Freddy loaning. Deficits would not have increased as much as they have. Unemployment would not have increased as much as it has, and GPD would not decreased as much as it has.


Bullshit, unemployment would have shot up much, much higher. The money doled out by our government has helped keep many State agencies and small businesses afloat during these tough times; what exactly do you think would have happened to these agencies without the ARRA? That they would magically have found the money to make payroll?

Have you even put an iota of thought into this? Apparently not!

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 05:07 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
These conservatives talk as if they understand anything about economics; they have everything in reverse. They can't see the obvious that GW Bush initiated this world economic crisis under his watch, and don't even understand enough economics to know that losing over 600,000 jobs a month during GWBush's tenure is not easy to reverse for any government.

As I've said often times before, if they want miracles, they need to kneel and pray to their god for relief. No human is capable of curing this economic mess Bush left this country and the world. Bush stayed in the kitchen too long and burned everything he touched.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 06:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/lf/aat1.txt
Unemployed Table 1942 to 2008
1976 ------------ 7.7
1977 ------------ 7.1 CARTER
1978 ------------ 6.1
1979 ------------ 5.8
1980 ------------ 7.1
1981 ------------ 7.6 REAGAN
1982 ------------ 9.7
1983 ------------ 9.6
1984 ------------ 7.5
1985 ------------ 7.2
1986 ------------ 7.0
1987 ------------ 6.2
1988 ------------ 5.5
1989 ------------ 5.3 BUSH 41
1990 ------------ 5.6
1991 ------------ 6.8
1992 ------------ 7.5
1993 ------------ 6.9 CLINTON
1994 ------------ 6.1
1995 ------------ 5.6
1996 ------------ 5.4
1997 ------------ 4.9
1998 ------------ 4.5
1999 ------------ 4.2
2000 ------------ 4.0
2001 ------------ 4.7 BUSH 43
2002 ------------ 5.8
2003 ------------ 6.0
2004 ------------ 5.5
2005 ------------ 5.1
2006 ------------ 4.6
2007 ------------ 4.6
2008
January -------- 4.9
February ------- 4.8
March ---------- 5.1
April ---------- 5.0
May ------------ 5.5
June ----------- 5.5
July ----------- 5.7
August --------- 6.1
September ------ 6.1
October -------- 6.5
November ------- 6.7
December ------- 7.2
2009
January ------------ 7.6

IN JULY 2009, UNEMPLOYMENT WILL EXCEED 9.5%
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 06:50 pm
so then why don't you just snap your conservative mr. wizard fingers and make all of the boo-boos better, boss?

or maybe you could go back to january when everyone, including obama, said that unemployment would probably keep rising for most of the year, if not into next year.

or, maybe you could just be an american of good will and hope that **** gets better. no matter who the president is.
0 Replies
 
marsz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 08:20 pm
1 Trillion More in Debt Since Obama Took Office
Posted by Mark Knoller .

(CBS)So rapid is the pace of deficit spending by the federal government, that the National Debt has increased over a trillion dollars since President Obama took office.

On Inauguration Day, the Debt stood at $10.626 trillion. The latest posting from the Treasury Department shows that as of July 31st, the debt hit $11.669 trillion.

During the last administration, it took over 2 ½ years for the National Debt to increase a trillion dollars. But by the time former president George W. Bush left office, he had run up the deficit by a record amount: $4.9-trillion over eight years.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 08:53 pm
@marsz,
And from looking at the real big picture, most of the spending by Bush did not help our economy, and most of Obama's spending has been used to help the majority of Americans with extended uenmployment benefits who have lost their jobs and to stabilize our economy for the rest of us and the world.

If we look at our country's deficit during WWII where our deficit exceeded our GDP, I don't feel our current deficit to protect the security of our country is too high a cost.

What I find so interesting today is that so many Americans feel that Obama's health plan will socialize medical care in our country, and they are fighting to defeat it. They refuse to look at the numbers of Americans who continue to lose health insurance as the insurance premium goes beyond the reach of companies and most individuals. It seems they would rather see more people without health insurance - including themselves and their families. It seems the health insurance companies are winning the war against universal health care.

0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 09:42 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
cyclo wrote:
He passed the stim bill, the budget, and the Lilly Ledbetter pay act. He re-authorized 4 million kids into SCHIP. He changed a bunch of stuff that can be changed by Exec. order.


All you've done is list a bunch of bills he's signed...by that measure any president is a whopping success. However success in the game is measured by who has the most points at the end of the game...not by who wins the coin toss. So the question is "are any of these bills actually doing what they were designed to do?". In the Stimulus bill (which he touted as saving millions of jobs and keeping unemployment under 8%) he is quite definitely failing. Of course its early in the half and he might still pull it out, but he's clearly behind the count right now. His other flagship initiatives Cap&Trade and Health Reform are twisting in the wind and their future is far from certain. To extend my football analogy, he hasn't even won the coin toss on these, let alone score any points toward a successful outcome.

I'll give you the Ledbetter Act. Minimum pay has been raised under his watch. However the rest of your examples are routine government activities or simple presidential orders. If this is the best Obama can come up with in 3 1/2 years, the Repubs are shoo-ins.
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 09:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
CI,
Not at all...I base my assessments on success or failure on the assertions made 6 months ago when the bill was being shoved thru Congress. Assertions about keeping employment down and how many people would be re-employed if only the bill would pass. Well the bill has passed and instead of unemployment going down, it continues to increase. I'll give you that Obama has until late in 2010 before the bill can definitely be written off as failure, but the early indications are certainly not favorable.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 09:48 pm
@slkshock7,
I agree; he not only hasn't won the coin toss, but the coin keeps spinning as if it doesn't know when to stop. We can't draw any conclusions about his success or failure yet, but most Americans are beginning to lose patience - even though it's not realistic to turn around this economy is seven months. The stimulus plan was approved in February, and most of us should know by now that just because a bill is passed, it doesn't mean the actions that follows the bills are immediate.

After all, we're still waiting for GW Bush's "biggest reconstruction project in New Orleans."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 09:50 pm
@slkshock7,
That's where you have lost all common sense; no stimulus plan (or anything else you wish to call an economic recovery program) is going to turn around the loss of over 20,000 jobs every day in six months. Get real!

Besides all that, Obama has been saying that the stimulus plan will begin to show up during this half of the year and into next year. You must've missed this message, but it's been repeated enough times to have been recorded in most of the media.

Be fair!
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 10:55 pm
Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says

Quote:
(CNN) -- The American Psychological Association concluded Wednesday that there is little evidence that efforts to change a person's sexual orientation from gay or lesbian to heterosexual are effective.

In addition, the 138-page report -- covering 87 peer-reviewed studies -- said that such efforts may cause harm.

0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 11:14 pm
This is an extremely informative segment on The Rachel Maddow Show:

Pulling the Strings of Protest

Rachel Maddow exposes the big money backers posing as average Americans behind the anti-health care reform event "Recess Rally."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/

 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.13 seconds on 04/19/2025 at 11:42:28