AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

Cyclops rolls out the "Everybody does it" argument again. I suppose if Obama is caught taking bribes and arm twisting, blackmailing people, we will see more of this argument again. It was used almost daily while Clinton was running and in office, so why am I not surprised? This is liberal politics, out of the playbook.

I think most dictators around the world like that argument as well, its just necessary to get things done. Party trumps right and wrong. The end justifies the means. But it only applies to one party, right cyclops?

I think the troubling part of this is that Sotomayer may not have told the truth about what she actually believes in the hearings. She said what she knew she needed to say, to obtain the approval to the court, but their is a disconnect between what she has said in the past, and her past decisions, vs what she is saying now.

I would have no problem with somebody saying their experience brings a perspective that is valuable. However, to make another leap of logic and to claim that she therefore has more ability to interpret the law better, or the constitution better, to make better decisions, I don't buy it, I think that is a racist statement.

Actually, I don't know for sure what kind of a justice she will make, perhaps not real bad, I liked her testimony what I watched of it, to a point, but I also get the feeling that she thinks her heritage and being a woman is mighty important, more important than I think it deserves to be, to make a decent judge. Her decision in the firefighter case is enough to convince me she isn't all that wise, or just, or a good judge of the constitution, not at all. I have not reviewed her history of cases, but count me as a skeptic for sure. I think we will just have to suck it up and figure on confirming her, and save our powder for the next fight.

I was under the impression that the Catholic Social Teaching focuses on charity and benevolence, meaning that people give voluntarily as they can of their bounty. Anything else would not be labeled 'charity'. I am unaware of any Catholic teaching that authorizes authorites to forcibly take property of one person in order to give to another.

I'm sure nobody has to remind you where GWBush sits in the rank of past presidents.

Foxfyre wrote:

I was under the impression that the Catholic Social Teaching focuses on charity and benevolence, meaning that people give voluntarily as they can of their bounty. Anything else would not be labeled 'charity'. I am unaware of any Catholic teaching that authorizes authorites to forcibly take property of one person in order to give to another.

In that case, you may want to read up on Catholic Social Teaching. The Archdiocese of Minneapolis/St Paul has an exhaustive website on the issue.

Click here to surf it.

Private property does not constitute for anyone an absolute or unconditioned right. No one is justified in keeping for his exclusive use what he does not need, when others lack necessities....

The right to property must never be exercised to the detriment of the common good. (#23)

Foxfyre wrote:

It only has to control those who operate the business and voila!. We have a nice, comfortable, soft facist-socialist system.

When Hitler advocated that, it was called a "Third Way," neither communist or capitalist. It is instead something that takes the best of both, creating something superior. Thats their belief, not mine of course. Its called "change" by Obama. Its not change I can believe in, thats for sure.

Foxfyre wrote:

I was under the impression that the Catholic Social Teaching focuses on charity and benevolence, meaning that people give voluntarily as they can of their bounty. Anything else would not be labeled 'charity'. I am unaware of any Catholic teaching that authorizes authorites to forcibly take property of one person in order to give to another.

In that case, you may want to read up on Catholic Social Teaching. The Archdiocese of Minneapolis/St Paul has an exhaustive website on the issue.

Click here to surf it.

Notable quotations from Catholic social teaching on the theme of Government and the Role of the State
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There are needs and common goods that cannot be satisfied by the market system. It is the task of the state and of all society to defend them. An idolatry of the market alone cannot do all that should be done.

The Hundredth Year (Donders), #40

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It is agreed that in our time the common good is chiefly guaranteed when personal rights and duties are maintained. The chief concern of civil authorities must therefore be to ensure that these rights are acknowledged, respected, coordinated with other rights, defended and promoted, so that in this way each one may more easily carry out his duties. For "to safeguard the inviolable rights of the human person, and to facilitate the fulfillment of his duties, should be the chief duty of every public authority."

Peace on Earth, #60
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Society as a whole, acting through public and private institutions, has the moral responsibility to enhance human dignity and protect human rights. In addition to the clear responsibility of private institutions, government has an essential responsibility in this area. This does not mean that government has the primary or exclusive role, but it does have a positive moral responsibility in safeguarding human rights and ensuring that the minimum conditions of human dignity are met for all. In a democracy, government is a means by which we can act together to protect what is important to us and to promote our common values.

Economic Justice for All, #18

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If any government does not acknowledge the rights of man or violates them, it not only fails in its duty, but its orders completely lack juridical force.

Peace on Earth, #61

Foxfyre wrote:

It only has to control those who operate the business and voila!. We have a nice, comfortable, soft facist-socialist system.

When Hitler advocated that, it was called a "Third Way," neither communist or capitalist. It is instead something that takes the best of both, creating something superior. Thats their belief, not mine of course. Its called "change" by Obama. Its not change I can believe in, thats for sure.

And oe has tried his best to convince everyone this type of policy is right wing! He has since more or less given up on that apparently, on the Ruthless Dictator thread that I started. I think what we are observing right before our eyes proves this stuff is clearly leftist, although probably not outright Marxist in extreme, at least not at this point, yet.

Rather the emphasis seems to be on the duty of government to defend the unviolable rights of all.

Could you provide a source that Hitler called whatever a "Third Way"?

There are needs and common goods that cannot be satisfied by the market system. It is the task of the state and of all society to defend them. An idolatry of the market alone cannot do all that should be done.

Private property does not constitute for anyone an absolute or unconditioned right. No one is justified in keeping for his exclusive use what he does not need, when others lack necessities....

There are needs and common goods that cannot be satisfied by the market system. It is the task of the state and of all society to defend them. An idolatry of the market alone cannot do all that should be done.

Foxfyre wrote:

Rather the emphasis seems to be on the duty of government to defend the unviolable rights of all.

Sure -- but they didn't see the right to property as unviolable. For qualifications and limits of that right, see the quotes Parados dug up.

I don't read Parados's posts.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Could you provide a source that Hitler called whatever a "Third Way"?

I believe the French fascists used the phrase "third way" ("ni droite, ni gauche") to describe their program, but I doubt that Hitler or the Nazis ever used it.

Obama hasn't broke any law as you [ican] like to repeat. You post libel, not me.

http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=gangster&x=29&y=9
Main Entry: gang·ster
...
: a person who uses violence, intimidation, or other extralegal means of coercion for business ends ...

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
Article II Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

Thomas wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Rather the emphasis seems to be on the duty of government to defend the unviolable rights of all.

Sure -- but they didn't see the right to property as unviolable. For qualifications and limits of that right, see the quotes Parados dug up.

I don't read Parados's posts.