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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 03:34 pm
@Foxfyre,
Nobody forces anyone in this country; we have the lowest tax collection of any developed country - second only to Mexico - as a percent of GDP.

Our country also has many charities that are benefiting our citizens. That a redneck would give a $1 to his friend is nonsense. Most give to charities without knowing who the beneficiary will be. I also give donations to Habitat for Humanity; and that goes to folks all around the world.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 03:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Nobody forces anyone in this country


Really?

Try not paying your taxes and see what kind of force the government/IRS can bring to bear on you.

Of course, the penalty is less harsh if you are a liberal... you may even get a cabinet position with Obama.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 03:49 pm
@H2O MAN,
You are not only a fool, but you understand nothing about our Constitution or taxation.

You just continue to piss around and stink up the place, and contribute nothing worth your waste of cyberspace.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 03:55 pm
@cicerone imposter,

What exactly did u get wrong?

H2O MAN wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Nobody forces anyone in this country


Really?

Try not paying your taxes and see what kind of force the government/IRS can bring to bear on you.

Of course, the penalty is less harsh if you are a liberal... you may even get a cabinet position with Obama.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 07:15 pm
My challenge on Sowell's article:



Record Versus Rhetoric
Thomas Sowell
Friday, October 17, 2008
Apparently there is something about Sarah Palin that causes some people to think of her as either the best of candidates or the worst of candidates. She draws enthusiastic crowds and provokes visceral hostility in the media.
The issue that is raised most often is her relative lack of experience and the fact that she would be "a heartbeat away from the presidency" if Senator John McCain were elected. But Barack Obama has even less experience-- none in an executive capacity-- and his would itself be the heartbeat of the presidency if he were elected.

Sarah Palin's record is on the record, while whole years of Barack Obama's life are engulfed in fog, and he has had to explain away one after another of the astounding and vile people he has not merely "associated" with but has had political alliances with, and to whom he has directed the taxpayers' money and other money.

Yes, Sarah Palin is on the record. Sam Stein of Huffington Post had this to say:
Sarah Palin had a few memorable moments during her campaign stop in Des Moines, Iowa, on Saturday. But the most eye-opening of them all came, it would appear, when the Alaska Governor somehow drew a connection between Barack Obama’s tax policy and an encroaching, nightmarish, communist government. The Illinois Democrat, she hysterically suggested, would, through his proposals, create a country “where the people are not free.”

Sarah Palin has had executive experience-- and the White House is the executive branch of government. We don't have to judge her by her rhetoric because she has a record.

Yeah, she's a quitter.
Rich Galen, a Republican strategist who advised former House Speaker Newt Gingrich of Georgia, questioned Palin’s move.
“This hardly seems like a well thought-out strategy,” Galen said.
“You just can’t tell what she’s up to,” he added.
‘Nutty’ Decision
Resigning as governor is a “nutty” decision if Palin plans to run for president, said John Weaver, a former top political adviser to McCain. The best preparation for a White House run is to “be a good governor and get re-elected -- not be the point guard who walks off the court,” he said, alluding to her high school basketball experience.



We don't know what Barack Obama will actually do because he has actually done very little for which he was personally accountable. Even as a state legislator, he voted "present" innumerable times instead of taking a stand one way or the other on tough issues.

"Clean up the mess in Washington"? He was part of the mess in Chicago and lined up with the Daley machine against reformers.

If he was “part of the mess in Chicago,” why didn't Sowell list them? Most conservatives blame Obama for Chicago's high crime rate, but how do they come to this ridiculous conclusion? Does any one person affect crimes rates in a big city? I would like to see evidence of this.



He is also part of the mess in Washington, not only with numerous earmarks, but also as the Senate's second largest recipient of money from Fannie Mae, and someone whose campaign has this year sought the advice of disgraced former Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines, who was at the heart of the subprime crisis.
Why then the enthusiasm for Obama and the hostility to Sarah Palin in the media?
One reason of course is that Senator Obama is ideologically much closer to the views of the media than is Governor Palin. But there is more than that. There are other conservative politicians who do not evoke such anger, spite and hate.

Now, why is that? Has Sowell yet figured out that Obama holds a more realistic and popular view? Is this America or what?

Sarah Palin is the one real outsider among the four candidates for the presidency and vice-presidency on the Republican and Democratic tickets. Her whole career has been spent outside the Washington Beltway.
On the one hand, Sarah Palin has more experience, but she's an outsider? How did Mr Sowell come to this conclusion and contradiction?

More than that, her whole life has been outside the realm familiar to the intelligentsia of the media. She didn't go to the big-name colleges and imbibe the heady atmosphere that leaves so many feeling that they are special folks. She doesn't talk the way they talk or think the way they think.
Worse yet, from the media's perspective, Sarah Palin does not seek their Good Housekeeping seal of approval.
Much is made of Senator Joe Biden's "experience." But Frederick the Great said that experience matters only when valid conclusions are drawn from it.

Now, why would Mr Sowell want to compare Biden with Frederick the Great? What is Mr Sowell trying to prove with this comparison? What is the conclusion Mr Sowell derived from this comparison?


Senator Biden's "experience" has been a long history of being on the wrong side of issue after issue in foreign policy. He was one of those Senators who voted to pull the plug on financial aid to South Vietnam, which was still defending itself from Communist invaders after the pullout of American troops.

The Vietnam war was started on false justifications. We shouldn't have been in Vietnam to begin with. We are not the world protector; we can't afford to be the world protector. That's a responsibility for the world community.

Biden opposed Ronald Reagan's military buildup that helped win the Cold War. He opposed the surge in Iraq last year.
Reagan's military buildup was not the cause to the end of the Cold War.


Quote:
The Soviet Union's defense spending did not rise or fall in response to American military expenditures. Revised estimates by the Central Intelligence Agency indicate that Soviet expenditures on defense remained more or less constant throughout the 1980s. Neither the military buildup under Jimmy Carter and Reagan nor SDI had any real impact on gross spending levels in the USSR. At most SDI shifted the marginal allocation of defense rubles as some funds were allotted for developing countermeasures to ballistic defense.

If American defense spending had bankrupted the Soviet economy, forcing an end to the Cold War, Soviet defense spending should have declined as East-West relations improved. CIA estimates show that it remained relatively constant as a proportion of the Soviet gross national product during the 1980s, including Gorbachev's first four years in office.


Sarah Palin will not be ready to become President of the United States on the first day that she and John McCain take office. Nobody is.

Nobody is ready on the first day, but they must have the exposure and overall intelligence to answer questions asked by the media and others concerning the Constitution and the federal government.
Sarah Palin is way over her head when she answered a third grader's question.

Sarah Palin, in response to a question sent to a local NBC TV affiliate in Colorado by a third grader at a local elementary school, answered that the Vice President is “in charge of the United States Senate”.

But being Vice President is a job that can allow a lot of time for studying, and everything about Governor Palin's career says that she is a bright gal with her head on straight. The country needs that far more than it needs people with glib answers to media "gotcha" questions.

If she claims that she has foreign experience because she can see Russia and Canada from her state, that's her level of “intelligence.”

Whatever the shortcomings of John McCain and Sarah Palin, they are people whose values are the values of this nation, whose loyalty and dedication to this country's fundamental institutions are beyond question because they have not spent decades working with people who hate America. Nor are they people whose judgments have been proved wrong consistently during decades of Beltway "experience."

Funny how the American People voted for Obama, because as Mr Sowell claimed, “John McCain and Sarah Palin, they are people whose values are the values of this nation, ...”
okie
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 10:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Good article by Sowell. Pretty much right on about Obama, a guy with no executive experience, and now we are reaping the disaster of this. Palin, no doubt would have been a better vp than Biden. Biden is one strange politician that basically runs around and makes off the wall statements about this and that, sometimes contradicting his own president.

Thanks for posting the Sowell article, which was a good one, although your comments are of course off base and wrong, as usual.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 11:00 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
Quote:
Thanks for posting the Sowell article, which was a good one, although your comments are of course off base and wrong, as usual.


Your opinion again isn't backed by any source except your own imagination.
Do you know anything about debate? You just can't make a claim and not back it up. Please show me where my "comments are off base and wrong?"

You are a loser, an ignoramus, and a big waste of time.
okie
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 11:09 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Okay, I'll bite, your first stupid rebuttal says:

"Sarah Palin had a few memorable moments during her campaign stop in Des Moines, Iowa, on Saturday. But the most eye-opening of them all came, it would appear, when the Alaska Governor somehow drew a connection between Barack Obama’s tax policy and an encroaching, nightmarish, communist government. The Illinois Democrat, she hysterically suggested, would, through his proposals, create a country “where the people are not free.”

And she was absolutely right. Obama wants to tax the producers to give to the non-producers, which is as he said, "spread the wealth around," to each according to his need, not according to what he earns. Sarah is absolutely right, that takes away our freedom, and one big freedom squasher is the Obama care, that one obviously takes our freedoms away, will increase taxes, and make us more socialistic, which if taken to the extreme end of the scale, results in communism.

Sarah knows, perhaps you don't, that Obama belonged to a church based upon Black Liberation Theology, which has Marxist leanings, and the Reverend Wright, Obama's mentor, routinely railed against Jews, capitalism, and greed, and praised communists like Hugo Chavez, Castro, and others. Sarah is no dummy, and sorry that you haven't figured out where Obama's policies will lead. Perhaps you need to do some more research, ci.

I won't bother with any more of your rebuttals, as they are all just as lousy as the first one.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 11:18 pm
@okie,
Your's is the most uninformed response if I ever saw one! You don't even understand the Constitution and taxation. Are you an American citizen?

Explain to us how Obama is "spreading the wealth around?" Please provide credible resource for your response, because your opinion is worth ****.

okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 11:26 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I have a project for you, ci. Go do some research on Black Liberation Theology, and come back here and submit a report.

Hint, one of its principles or goals was "economic parity."

Don't do a half of a job. Do your homework, then come back here and say something intelligent for a change.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 11:51 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

I have a project for you, ci. Go do some research on Black Liberation Theology, and come back here and submit a report.

Hint, one of its principles or goals was "economic parity."

Don't do a half of a job. Do your homework, then come back here and say something intelligent for a change.


I would be amazed if he actually did that. I would be amazed if he would be able to competently define Black Liberation Theology.

But in a way related to that, Thomas Sowell's current column is on the lighter side, but there is an important message in it for those willing to see it. At the very least it provides additional ammunition to back up that little story re equalizing grades that I posted earlier in the week.

Quote:
Jewish World Review
July 14, 2009 22
A Personal Inequity
By Thomas Sowell

Sometimes, when I hear about "disparities" and "inequities," I think of a disparity that applied directly to me " the disparity in basketball ability between myself and Michael Jordan.

When I was in school, I was so awful in basketball that the class coach wouldn't even let me try out for softball, at which I was actually pretty good.

I was more than forty years old before I ever got the ball through the basket. It wasn't during a game. The basket was in my brother's backyard and I was just shooting " unopposed " from practically right under the basket. The only pressure on me was that my little nephew was watching.

After making that one basket, I never took a basketball in my hands again. I retired at my peak.

Think about it: Michael Jordan made millions of dollars because of having a talent that was totally denied to me. Through no fault of my own, I had to spend years studying economics, in order to make a living.

Economics is not nearly as much fun as basketball and doesn't pay nearly as much money either. We are talking inequity big time.

Most discussions of "disparities" and "inequities" are a prelude to coming up with some "solution" that the government can impose, winning politicians some votes in the process. How could the disparity between Michael Jordan and me be solved?

We could change the rules of basketball, in order to try to equalize the outcomes. Michael Jordan could be required to make all his two-point shots from beyond the three-point line, with five players opposing him and no one on his side. A three-point shot could require him to stand under the basket on the opposite side of the court and shoot from there.

Meanwhile, I could make two-point shots from a spot half the distance from the foul line to the basket, and of course without any other players on the court to distract me. Any shots I might make from back at the foul line would count as three-pointers.

Even under these conditions, you would be better off betting your money on Michael Jordan. But, conceivably at least, we might change the rules some more to make the results come out less lopsided, in order to create "social justice."

The problem with trying to equalize is that you can usually only equalize downward. If the government were to spend some of its stimulus money trying to raise my basketball ability level to that of Michael Jordan, it would be an even bigger waste of money than most of the other things that Washington does.

So the only way to try to equalize that has any chance at all would be to try to bring Michael Jordan down to my level, whether by drastic rule changes or by making him play with one hand tied behind his back, or whatever.

The problem with this approach, as with many other attempts at equalization, is that it undermines the very activity involved. Basketball would be a much less interesting game if it was played under rules designed to produce equality of outcomes.

Attendance would fall off to the point where neither Michael Jordan nor anyone else could make a living playing the game.

The same principle applies elsewhere. If you are going to try to equalize the chances of women getting jobs as firefighters, for example, then you are going to have to lower the physical requirements of height, weight and upper body strength.

That means that you are going to have more firefighters who are not capable of carrying an unconscious person out of a burning building.

If you are going to have these lower physical requirements be the same for both women and men, that means that you are not only going to have women who are not capable of carrying someone out of a burning building, you are also going to have men who are likewise incapable of carrying someone to safety.

Most activities do not exist for the sake of equality. They exist to serve their own purposes " and those purposes are undermined, sometimes fatally, when equality becomes the goal.

Nor would a politician encouraging me to feel resentful toward Michael Jordan do any good. If I had such resentments, they would do me more harm than they would do Michael Jordan. They would make me feel bad " and could make me miss seeing some great basketball.
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell071409.php3
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2009 08:52 am
And as an aside, the United Kingdom's ban on radio talk show host Michael Savage has been lifted. Not only is that encouraging that there is a bit of sanity left in the world, but the recently deposed British Home Secretary admitted that she lacked the necessary skills and was not up to the job. When is the last time you saw any politician be that honest?

Quote:
Michael Savage: Pack your bags for England!
Britain's incoming home secretary says ban on radio talker's travel to be lifted
Posted: July 18, 2009

WASHINGTON " Radio talker Michael Savage told WND he was "stunned" by the quick decision by incoming United Kingdom Home Secretary Alan Johnson to scrap his predecessor's list of people banned from Britain " a list that included Savage along with Islamic hate preachers and terrorists.

Savage had sued outgoing Home Secretary Jacqui Smith for libel for listing him, along with 15 others, as "least wanted" visitors in the country. Meanwhile, Smith's successor, Alan Johnson, called the move a terrible blunder and told the London Daily Mail he would scrap the policy of maintaining such enemies lists.

"I am stunned by this sudden sign of sanity in the UK government," Savage told WND. "But I won't believe it until they send a letter to me confirming it."

Savage said he also demands an apology from Smith.

Johnson said Smith had no right to put Savage, the third highest rated radio talker in America, on the same list as a former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard, a skinhead gang leader and a Hezbollah militant.

Last week, Jacqui Smith admitted she was not up to being home secretary, saying she should have been given some training for the job before being named.

"When I became home secretary I'd never run a major organization," she told Total Politics magazine. "I hope I did a good job but if I did it was more by luck than by any kind of development of skills. I think we should have been better trained. I think there should have been more induction."
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104396
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2009 09:05 am
that whole entertaining FedEx/UPS debate came from somewhere

FedEx rah
UPS nooooooooo

oh, here's where it all started

FedEx Ships Conservative Think Tank Down the River

FedEx better than UPS rah rah rah !!!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2009 09:15 am
@Foxfyre,
okie, Go do a search on "Nazi Party" or "white supremacist" and do research on their organization.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2009 09:20 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxie, The thesis purloined by Sowell is fiction; our country is a "democracy" with pros and cons on almost every issue legislated through congress. Maybe you didn't know that, so I thought I'd bring you up to speed on how laws are made in the US. And BTW, both liberals and conservatives take their best shot at what they think they can make into law, and they are all voted into congress "by the people."
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2009 09:30 am
Did anybody notice that in that Harry Alford (Black CofC) exchange with Barbara Boxer that he called her Ma'am. Twice? Nary a murmor from her about that as she strenuously attempted to persuade him that he was out of the mainstream with black America.

But just as a reminder:
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/GM090630CLR-BoxerThe20090701024449.jpg

(The general was Brig Gen Michael Walsh who also referred to Sen. Boxer as "ma'am', a requirement re military protocol, and she took exception and told him to call her Senator.)

I seem to recall at least one round of testimony too, in which Senator Boxer repeatedly referred to Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice as "Ma'am", and not nicely.

What does this have to do with American Conservative values? Well, we're discussing 'equality' aren't we....what's sauce for the goose and all that.....
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2009 09:44 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxie, Another mountain made from a mole hill; "ma'am" is an issue with conservatives? ROFL
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2009 09:56 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

And as an aside, the United Kingdom's ban on radio talk show host Michael Savage has been lifted. Not only is that encouraging that there is a bit of sanity left in the world, but the recently deposed British Home Secretary admitted that she lacked the necessary skills and was not up to the job. When is the last time you saw any politician be that honest?


Until this very minute, there's only the wnd.com report confirming this.
But it certainly can be true.

I suppose, Fixfyre, you read the Smith interview in Total Politics.
She said a bit more, quite honest, good old Socialist school and background. (She is, though, not the first minister to express doubts about their ability to do the job: quite a few Labour and Social-Democrat ministers admitted such in history.)
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2009 10:01 am
Does anybody oppose the proposal that federal legislators take a pledge to pass no legislation without reading and understanding what's in it? How about a federal law mandating that they cannot vote on legislation until it has been posted for the voters' perusal for at least 72 hours?

It is obvious that President Obama isn't going to stick to his campaign pledge not to sign anything into law until it has been posted for 72 hours. So how about a law requiring that of Congress? Any objections?

Quote:
Back Channels: Imagine: Reading a bill before passing it
By Kevin Ferris

In 1776, the rallying cry was, "No taxation without representation."
Today, it could be, "No taxation without totally clueless representation."


That's what Americans got on June 26, when the House voted 219-212 for the "cap-and-tax" energy bill, as the Republicans refer to it. The bill ran more than 1,000 pages, and before members had time to digest that tome, 300 pages of amendments were added after midnight. When Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R., Ohio) started to read the additions, bill cosponsor Henry A. Waxman (D., Calif.) objected. He was rebuffed. There are no time limits for comments by House leaders.

"When you file a 300-page amendment at 3:09 a.m., the American people have a right to know what's in this bill," Boehner said.

Whether this bill will lessen greenhouse-gas emissions - as Democrats hope - or kill countless jobs - as Republicans predict - or ever pass the Senate, remains to be seen. But the House vote did raise a question that cuts across party and ideology:

How can lawmakers vote on something so important without a thorough understanding of what's in it?

Not the everyday "We hereby rename this post office in honor of so-and-so" or "We officially declare this Goldfish Month." The big things, like an almost $800 billion stimulus plan, or an energy package that Politico said "would transform the country's economy and industrial landscape."

Actually reading such legislation, as the founders might say, should be self-evident.

But apparently not. So a little nudge is in order, especially with health-care reform looming.

One nudger is Colin Hanna, a former Chester County commissioner and president of the conservative advocacy group Let Freedom Ring. He has begun a campaign (www.pledgetoread.org) that asks members of the House and Senate to promise the following:

"I . . . pledge to my constituents and to the American people that I will not vote to enact any health-care reform package that:

"1) I have not read, personally, in its entirety; and,

"2) Has not been available, in its entirety, to the American people on the Internet for at least 72 hours, so that they can read it too."

Let Freedom Ring isn't alone. A consortium of liberal and good-government groups is backing readthebill.org, and a libertarian group, DownsizeDC.org, essentially wants the two planks of Hanna's pledge enacted as federal law.


Having been a commissioner, Hanna understands that lawmakers can't read every line of every bill, but he argues that in some cases it's necessary.

"There are certain issues of scope and importance that demand an extra measure of due diligence, including reading the bill in full," he said in an interview. Health care, cap-and-trade, and the stimulus all rise to that level, he says, adding that legislators dismiss this sentiment at their peril.

"There is a rising public demand that bills be read," he says. "And there is a rising public outrage against politicians who dismissively suggest that's just the way Washington works."
MORE HERE:
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20090719_Back_Channels__Imagine__Reading_a_bill_before_passing_it.html
Walter Hinteler
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2009 10:11 am
@Foxfyre,
Well, you're not a parliamentary democracy like many countries.
0 Replies
 
 

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