55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 11:40 am
@MontereyJack,
Spot on!
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 11:43 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

oh, I see, when fox says something about liberals it isn't a stereotype but is an accurate description, evne tho it's not something we believe. But when we accurately describe conservatives it is a stereotype because it's not what they think of themselves as being (even though their mirrors are the funhouse type).

Riiiiiiiight.


And here is the excellent typical example of the Liberal dishonestly misstating what was actually said so that it is more easily attacked. No doubt the toadies and groupies and other numbnuts will quickly join in a pack dog mentality to agree with high fives and back slaps and congratulations.

And it is that more than anything else about Liberals that drives Conservatives absolutely nuts.
MontereyJack
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 11:53 am
Reread your posts above , fox. Tell me how I'm misrepresenting what it is that you actually said.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 11:59 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxie, How often do we need to point out your contradictions? Seems this is a lesson you never learn. Betcha dollars to donut holes, Monterey Jack will show evidence once again that you have contradicted yourself.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 12:03 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

Reread your posts above , fox. Tell me how I'm misrepresenting what it is that you actually said.


I reread it and you didn't accurately represent anything I said in it. Perhaps you could post the exact phrases to which you are alluding and explain how you represented them accurately?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 12:18 pm
Meanwhile on a lighter note, I would like to post some additional conservative concepts/truths gleaned from today's e-mail:

Country truths:

Your Fences need to be horse-high, Pig-tight and Bull-strong.

Keep skunks at a distance.

Life is simpler when you plow around the stump.

A bumble bee is considerably faster than a John Deere tractor.

Words that soak into your ears are whispered ... not yelled.

Meanness don't jes' happen overnight.

Do not corner something that you know is meaner than you.

It don't take a big person to carry a grudge.

You cannot unsay a cruel word.

Every path has a few puddles.

When you wallow with pigs expect to get dirty.

The best sermons are lived, not preached.

Most of the stuff people worry about ain't never gonna happen anyway.

Don't judge folks by their relatives.

Live a good, honorable life. Then when you get older and think back, you'll enjoy it a second time.

Don't interfere with somethin' that ain't bothering you none.

Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a Rain Dance.

If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'.

Sometimes you get, and sometimes you get got.

Always drink upstream from the herd.

Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment.

Lettin' the cat out of the bag is a whole lot easier than puttin' it back in.

If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around.

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly.


wandeljw
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 12:25 pm
@Foxfyre,
Here's another Country Truth:
Keep your bowels open and your mind closed. Smile
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 02:26 pm
OBAMA IS ACTING IN VIOLATION OF USA LAW TO ACHIEVE OBJECTIVES WHICH VIOLATE USA LAW.
The solution for how to save our Constitutional Republic is to first impeach President Obama, or initiate his removal from the presidency some other lawful way. He is violating the Constitution of the USA that he swore to support. He is leading the transfer of private property from those persons and from those organizations who have lawfully earned it to those persons and organizations who have not lawfully earned it.

Obama is in the process of attempting to change the Constitution through the courts. That is illegal. The Constitution can only be changed legally according to Article V of the Constitution.


OBAMA: "Yeah. And the courts just not very good at it and politically it's very hard to legitimize opinions from the court in that regard. So I mean I think that although you can craft theoretical justifications for it legally, you know, I think you can -- any three of us sitting here can come up with a -- a rationale for bringing about economic change through the courts."

OBAMA: "I think we can say that, uh, uh, the Constitution reflected a enormous blind spot in this culture that carries on until this day and -- and, uh, -- and, uh, that the framers had that same blind spot. I -- I don't think the two viewers are contradictory, to say that it was a remarkable political document that paved the way for where we are now and to say that, uh, it also, uh, reflected the fundamental flaw of this country that continues to this day."


parados
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 02:38 pm
@ican711nm,
ICAN IS ACTING IN VIOLATION OF REALITY TO ACHIEVE SOMETHING WHICH VIOLATES REALITY.

So, ican, when you going to explain how the 16th amendment violates the constitution?
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 02:44 pm
@parados,
That's because ican lives in the nether world.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 02:46 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:



Robin is a recovering liberal and psychotherapist trapped in Berkeley.


You're wrong. "Robin" is a conservative who only pretends to be "a recovering liberal and psychotherapist trapped in Berkeley."


Then "Robin" is a fake and a liar ("Robin" is a liberal).
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 02:57 pm
Quote:

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/STIMULUS_FINAL_0217.html
Getting to $787 Billion
After a month of wrangling, 246 House Democrats, 57 Senate Democrats and three Senate Republicans voted late last week to pass a compromise economic recovery package of spending provisions, tax cuts and aid to laid-off workers and their families. The 1,073-page bill, signed into law Monday by President Obama, contains hundreds of provisions. This is how they add up. Click the columns to sort by amount or type of spending, and see a summary table below.

Expenditures are sorted in descending order from over a hundred-billion to one-billion dollars. Expenditures smaller than one-billion dollars can be found at the web site.

Classification Keyword Description Cost ($M)
Loading...
Tax provisions Individual tax cuts $400 payroll tax credit for workers earning up to $75,000; married couples filing jointly get $800 for income up to $150,000 $116,199
Aid Healthcare Federal aid to states for Medicaid spending $90,044
Tax provisions Individual tax cuts Middle-income taxpayers get an exemption from the alternative minimum tax of $46,700 for an individual and $70,950 for a married couple $69,759
Aid Aid to states Aid to states to balance education budgets, prevent cutbacks and modernize schools $40,600
Spending Transportation Grants for highway improvements $29,000
Aid Individual aid Extension of jobless benefits for up to 33 weeks $26,960
Aid Individual aid 65% subsidy for laid-off workers to continue paying premiums for former employer's health plan for nine months $24,749
Aid Food 13% increase in food stamp payments $19,991
Aid Healthcare Incentive payments to hospitals and physicians who computerize medical-records systems $17,559
Aid Education Increase in Pell Grant to $5,350 in 2009 and to $5,550 in 2010, and other increases to student aid $17,114
Tax provisions Individual tax cuts Increased eligibility for refundable child tax credit, with all income over $3000 qualifying $14,830
Tax provisions Individual tax cuts One-time payment of $250 for retirees, disabled people, SSI recipients, railroad retirees and disabled veterans $14,225
Tax provisions Individual tax cuts Tax credit of up to $2500 for tuition and college expenses $13,907
Tax provisions Energy tax cuts Extending by three years the placed-in-service date for renewable energy investments $13,143
Spending Education Funding for 'Title I' education programs for disadvantaged children $13,000
Spending Education Grants for special education programs $12,200
Tax provisions Infrastructure tax cuts $22 billion in new tax credit bonds for construction or repair of public schools $9,877
Spending Health and Services National Institutes of Health biomedical research $9,500
Aid Individual aid Increase in weekly unemployment benefits by $25 $8,800
Spending Transportation Public transit improvements and infrastructure investments $8,400
Aid Aid to states Aid to states for public safety and critical services $8,000
Spending Transportation Grants for capital investments in designated high-speed rail corridors $8,000
Tax provisions Individual tax cuts A tax credit for first-time homebuyers increases from $7500 to $8000, and will not have to be repaid $6,638
Spending Energy Money for federal power marketing administrations in electric power transmission systems $6,500
Spending Outdoors Loans for communities to upgrade wastewater treatment systems and drinking water infrastructure $6,400
Spending Energy Energy efficiency grants to states and local governments $6,300
Spending Government Construction, repair and energy alterations to federal buildings and facilities $5,550
Tax provisions Infrastructure tax cuts $25 billion of bonds for investment in economic recovery zones will be created $5,371
Spending Energy Cleanup of former nuclear defense sites $5,127
Tax provisions Business tax cuts Businesses will be able to more quickly deduct the cost of investments in plant and equipment from their taxable income $5,074
Aid Aid to states Aid to states in form of bonus grants for meeting key performance measures in education $5,000
Spending Energy Home weatherization grants to low and middle-income families $5,000
Tax provisions Individual tax cuts $2400 of unemployment benefits will not be subject to federal income tax $4,740
Tax provisions Individual tax cuts Increase in earned income tax credit for working families with more than three children $4,663
Spending Energy Modernization of the electric grid $4,400
Spending Commerce Grants to provide wireless and broadband infrastructure to communities, including public computer centers and sustainable adoption of broadband service $4,350
Tax provisions Infrastructure tax cuts 35% credit to bondholders for infrastructure bonds, 35% refundable credit to issuers of bonds $4,348
Spending Outdoors Flood control and water management construction, regulation and investigations $4,125
Spending Housing Repairs and modernization of public housing projects $4,000
Spending Energy Loan guarantees for standard renewables $4,000
Spending Defense Restoration and modernization of Defense facilities in U.S. and territories $3,840
Tax provisions Infrastructure tax cuts Rules affecting state and local government bonds will be changed to improve marketability $3,789
Tax provisions Business tax cuts Some companies restructuring may not be subject to those tougher rules $3,163
Aid Individual aid Grants for states modernizing unemployment compensation coverage among low-wage, part-time and other workers $2,975
Spending Energy Research and development of renewable and efficient energy technology $2,500
Spending Science National Science Foundation research $2,500
Spending Farming Broadband grants to rural communities $2,500
Aid Individual aid Aid to states for temporary assistance to needy families payments (TANF) $2,418
Spending Housing Funds for building and rehabilitating low-income housing using green technology $2,250
Spending Housing Energy efficiency retrogrades to low-income housing, including new insulation, windows and furnaces $2,250
Spending Justice Grants to state and local law enforcement $2,225
Tax provisions Energy tax cuts 30% cap on tax credit for energy efficiency purchases by homeowners, up to $1500 per residence $2,034
Tax provisions Energy tax cuts Tax credit for plug-in electric vehicle conversion $2,002
Spending Housing Funds for communities to buy and rehabilitate foreclosed and vacant properties $2,000
Spending Health and Services Extra money for Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology $2,000
Spending Health and Services Grants to states for childcare services for low-income working parents $2,000
Spending Health and Services Renovation and health IT purchases for community health centers $2,000
Spending Energy Transmission loan guarantees $2,000
Spending Energy Advanced batteries manufacturing grants $2,000
Tax provisions Individual tax cuts Taxpayers earning less than $125,000 can deduct sales and excise taxes paid on new cars $1,684
Tax provisions Business tax cuts Facilities making advanced energy property may be able to claim a new 30% investment tax credit $1,647
Tax provisions Business tax cuts Companies will be allowed to defer taxes for five years on several transactions aimed at restructuring balance sheets, and repay the taxes over the following five years $1,622
Aid Individual aid Two-year extension of program providing income support and training benefits for workers who lose their jobs because of outsourcing overseas $1,600
Spending Energy Physics research including high-energy physics, nuclear physics and fusion energy sciences $1,600
Spending Energy Grants for industrial carbon capture and energy efficiency improvement projects $1,520
Aid Housing Grants for short-term help with rent and housing relocation for homeless families $1,500
Spending Farming Grants for rural waste and waste disposal $1,380
Spending Military Defense hospital construction $1,330
Spending Transportation Grants to Amtrak $1,300
Spending Labor Grants to states for dislocated worker employment and training activities $1,250
Spending Labor Grants to states for youth training, including summer jobs $1,200
Aid Individual aid Waiver on interest payments and accrual in interest on loans held by state unemployment trust funds $1,100
Spending Transportation Grants for airport improvements $1,100
Spending Health and Services "Early Head Start" programs for low-income infants $1,100
Spending Health and Services Funding for research comparing effectiveness of treatments funded by Medicare, Medicaid and SCHIP $1,100
Tax provisions Infrastructure tax cuts $2.8 billion of bonds for schools working with businesses $1,045
Aid Individual aid Extra funding for child support enforcement $1,000
Spending Housing Grants for community and economic development projects $1,000
Spending Veterans Renovations and energy efficiency improvements to veterans medical facilities $1,000
Spending Health and Services Funding for community preventative health campaigns, vaccination programs, healthcare-associated infection reduction strategies $1,000
Spending Health and Services Grants for community employment, food, housing and healthcare projects $1,000
Spending Health and Services "Head Start" programs for low-income preschoolers $1,000
Spending Homeland security Explosive detection systems for airports $1,000
Spending Energy Fossil energy research and development $1,000
Spending Outdoors Water reclamation and reuse projects $1,000
Spending Justice Grants to state and local law enforcement to hire extra police officers $1,000
Spending Commerce Extra money for Census $1,000
...

OBAMA IS ACTING IN VIOLATION OF USA LAW TO ACHIEVE OBJECTIVES WHICH VIOLATE USA LAW.
The solution for how to save our Constitutional Republic is to first impeach President Obama, or initiate his removal from the presidency some other lawful way. He is violating the Constitution of the USA that he swore to support. He is leading the transfer of private property from those persons and from those organizations who have lawfully earned it to those persons and organizations who have not lawfully earned it.

parados
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 03:06 pm
@ican711nm,
I didn't realize that cutting taxes was a violation of the constitution ican.

Quote:
Individual tax cuts $400 payroll tax credit for workers earning up to $75,000; married couples filing jointly get $800 for income up to $150,000 $116,199

Quote:
Individual tax cuts Middle-income taxpayers get an exemption from the alternative minimum tax of $46,700 for an individual and $70,950 for a married couple $69,759


Every tax provision in the list ican is a "tax cut". So obviously you think Bush violated the constitution then by giving tax cuts. Shouldn't we get back to the constitution and put those taxes back in place since the cut was unconstitutional?
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 03:10 pm
@parados,
geezuz, parados, you're trying to have an intelligent discussion with somebody who's sense of reality is outside of this realm.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 03:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
It's wonderful that all you MACs and conservatives are not affected by this economic crisis, and don't require any of our government's handouts.


I think you are misstating several other peoples position, including mine.

I have been affected by the economic crisis (as has everyone else).
And, I could use some of that govt money.
BUT, that money comes with strings attached, and I dont like those strings.

I prefer to get out of it myself, thru my own hard work and with my own resources.
If you want to accept a govt handout to help you out, feel free to.
But dont denigrate those of us that dont want a handout.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 03:49 pm
@mysteryman,
Who is your healthcare provider?
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 03:55 pm
@JTT,
Blue Cross....why?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 04:03 pm
@mysteryman,
mm, Your perceptions about government handouts are not only based on ignorance, but all working Americans pay into the system to help our citizens in times like the current economic crisis.

You may not need the help, but many parents who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own, paid taxes while working, and must now need help pay for shelter and food deserve government "handouts." I prefer that Americans benefit from our tax dollars over our government giving billions away to foreign countries.

Simple concept, really. It's about "security" for the citizens of our country.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 04:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
but all working Americans pay into the system to help our citizens in times like the current economic crisis.


Ignoring your unneeded and silly personal attacks, where did I ever say anything that disagrees with the part I quoted?
If I have ever said that, and you are implying that I have, please post it.

Quote:
I prefer that Americans benefit from our tax dollars over our government giving billions away to foreign countries.


I 100% agree.
Thats why I propose we eliminate ALL foreign aid, of any type.
No medical aid, no food aid, no military aid, no disaster relief, no allowing foreign countries to benefit from the CDC, no importing of anything from any foreign country, no money to the world bank or the UN, nothing.

That way, no person or country outside of US borders or not on US territory will get a dime of US money.
We also outlaw the sending of money from the US to a foreign country or foreigner by any person in the US.
That way a foreign country wont get any of it.

And judging by your own words, you agree.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2009 04:14 pm
@parados,
The 16th Amendment does not violate the Constitution!

The 16th Amendment does not amend the word uniform in this clause in Article I Sction 8:
Quote:
The Congress shall have power
To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Quote:

Definition of uniform
http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=uniform&x=29&y=8
Main Entry: 1uniĀ·form
1 : marked by lack of variation, diversity, change in form, manner, worth, or degree : showing a single form, degree, or character in all occurrences or manifestations
...
2 : marked by complete conformity to a rule or pattern or by similarity in salient detail or practice : CONSONANT, ALIKE
...
3 : marked by unvaried and changeless appearance (as of surface, color, or pattern)
...
4 : consistent in conduct, character, or effect : lacking in variation, deviation, or unequal or dissimilar operation <the constitution has conferred on Congress the right to establish a uniform rule of naturalization -- R.B.Taney>
synonym see LIKE, STEADY

Therefore, progressive/graduated income taxes are unconstitutional and thus illegal, because they are by definition not uniform!

 

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