55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
genoves
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 01:30 pm
The senile Setanta stated that the problem with Social Security is that the Congress raided the trust fund.

Is it possible that the almost brain-dead Setanta does not know that there is no "trust fund" in the US Budget?

Note:

Myth 4: President Roosevelt promised that the money the participants paid would be put into the independent "Trust Fund," rather than into the General operating fund, and therefore, would only be used to fund the Social Security Retirement program, and no other Government program

The idea here is basically correct. However, this statement is usually joined to a second statement to the effect that this principle was violated by subsequent Administrations. However, there has never been any change in the way the Social Security program is financed or the way that Social Security payroll taxes are used by the federal government.

The Social Security Trust Fund was created in 1939 as part of the Amendments enacted in that year. From its inception, the Trust Fund has always worked the same way. The Social Security Trust Fund has never been "put into the general fund of the government."

Most likely this myth comes from a confusion between the financing of the Social Security program and the way the Social Security Trust Fund is treated in federal budget accounting. Starting in 1969 (due to action by the Johnson Administration in 1968) the transactions to the Trust Fund were included in what is known as the "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget. This is sometimes described by saying that the Social Security Trust Funds are "on-budget." This budget treatment of the Social Security Trust Fund continued until 1990 when the Trust Funds were again taken "off-budget." This means only that they are shown as a separate account in the federal budget. But whether the Trust Funds are "on-budget" or "off-budget" is primarily a question of accounting practices--it has no affect on the actual operations of the Trust Fund itself.

0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 01:31 pm
Nimh responded to Foxfyre:

So you know what, this one time, I decide - OK. You know what - you challenge me to show where you used red herrings? I'll go through the effort of listing them all, one by one.
*****************************************************************
Oh, come on, Nimh. That's the oldest trick in the book.

Red Herring---Something used to divert attention from the real problem or matter at hand.

You imply that you know what the REAL PROBLEM OR MATTER AT HAND IS.

IN YOUR JUDGMENT!

When Bush gave his estimate of the danger from Iraq, the left wing says that he lied.

But, you would call it a RED HERRING if someone showed that many many prominent Democrats also had the same judgment about Saddam and Iraq.

When Bush gave his estimate of the danger from Iraq, the left wing says that the intelligence agencies crafted the data to give Bush the response he wanted.

But, you would call it a RED HERRING if someone showed that other Intelligence Agencies( from Great Britain,France, China and Israel were vetted by others to show that they too agreed with Tenet's finding.

*****************************************************************

The Red Herring charge is usually specious because it relies on the judgement of the accuser. That judgment may be quite in error.

Medical Diagnosis--John Doe expired because of lobal pneumonia.

The specialist tosses in ---exacerbated by an immune system failure due to
thyroid disease.

A red herring? Get real
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 01:32 pm
Cyclops wrote:

Yeah, that's the heart of it, you are right on. I find the broadsides to be rather more enjoyable, because I have long suspected that a greater amount of in-your-face resistance to the more hateful and neanderthal-ish amongst the Conservative crowd was the only appropriate response to their boorishness, and one which they would not casually ignore in the fashion they do basic logic and any notion of responsibility or duty towards one's fellow man.
***********************************************************

Greater amount of in your face resistance? Get real, Cyclops! I have pissed on your shoes repeatedly and you are too much of a wimp to even try to respond.

You can't rebut me and your response is to run home to mother.

When you lied and said that Berkeley was not one of the most liberal places n the USA, I jammed it up your diseased anus with evidence.

You had no response and were left with your finger in your nose!

Read in and weep, Cyclops, because it says that ANY of your responses are tempered by the fact that they are responses nurtured inone of the most EXTREME LIBERAL HOT HOUSES in the USA.

You won't respond to this because you fear me. You do remember when I wiped up the floor with you, don't you. But this is for others so they will know exactly who you are.



ePodunk study identifies the most liberal communities in the U.S.
For all those frustrated Democrats who are considering a move to Canada, we offer a few closer alternatives.

Our list of "Most Liberal Places in America" is based not on opinion polls, which have come under fire in recent elections, but on votes, political contributions and demographics. The rankings, at right, show nationwide picks by the size of the community and statewide rankings for 29 states.

We considered the following data in making our selections:

Individual contributions to PACs
We analyzed 1.8 million contributions to 2,300 political action committees that could be identified as Democratic/Liberal or Republican/Conservative. This data, for the 2003-2004 election cycle, was downloaded from the Federal Election Commission on Nov. 9.


Election returns
Unofficial election results in the 2004 presidential race were reported at the county level for every county in the U.S., and at the local level for many New England communities.


Gay households
This index was compiled from the U.S. Census by Gary Gates, a demographer at the Urban Institute and co-author of The Gay and Lesbian Atlas. Figures were included for the 1,360 U.S. communities in which 50 or more couples reported living in such relationships.


Local government resolutions opposing combat in Iraq


Local officials performing gay marriages


Congressional District voting history
(Note: Because this factor was part of the screen for rankings, Washington, D.C., which does not have congressional representation, was excluded from our study. Washington residents who do not live in the White House showed strong liberal leanings in their votes for president and political contributions. The city also has a large number of gay households.)


Population
Community population, as reported in the 2000 census.
For more information, send us an email at [email protected], or call us, at 607-387-4181.

Released November, 2004

Other rankings


LIBERAL COMMUNITIES
BIG CITIES
(100,000 or more)
Boston, MA
Cambridge, MA
Berkeley, CA
Oakland, CA
San Francisco, CA
New Haven, CT
Providence, RI
New York, NY
Baltimore, MD
Seattle, WA



MOST LIBERAL IN STATE
(For selected states)
AZ - Flagstaff
CA - Berkeley
CO - Telluride
CT - Salisbury
FL - Wilton Manors
GA - Decatur
IA - Iowa City
IL - Oak Park
KS - Lawrence
MA - Boston
MD - Mount Rainier
ME - Orono
MI - Ferndale
MN - Golden Valley
MO - Kansas City
NC - Carrboro
NH - Hanover
NJ - Montclair
NM - Santa Fe
NY - Ithaca
OH - Oberlin
OR - Lincoln City
PA - Philadelphia
RI - Providence
TX - Bellaire
VA - Baileys Crossroads
VT - Johnson
WA - Vashon
WI - Madison

wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 01:34 pm
Quote:
In Context, Sotomayor's Remarks on Race and Judging Aren't Controversial
(By KEVIN JOHNSON, FindLaw Commentary, June 2, 2009)

A graduate of Princeton and Yale Law School, Judge Sonia Sotomayor began her career by serving as a district attorney and a partner at a private law firm. In 1992, she was appointed by a Republican President to the federal district court; later, she was elevated by a Democratic President to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, one of the most prestigious circuit courts in the United States. With 17 years on the bench, Judge Sotomayor has more judicial experience than any nominee for the Supreme Court in many decades has possessed. (By comparison, for example, Chief Justice John Roberts had only two years of experience as a judge before joining the Court.) Her opinions, moreover, reflect the expertise and nuanced reasoning of an intelligent, careful, and thoughtful jurist.

Judge Sotomayor also has an incredible personal story, perhaps only rivaled by President Obama's own life story. A product of the Bronx's housing projects, she made the most of humble beginnings. The icing on the cake is that Judge Sotomayor would be the first Hispanic Justice on the U.S. Supreme Court.

Doesn't this sound like the perfect Supreme Court nominee? Maybe so, but conservatives on radio talk shows, television, and blogs have still been crying foul. In this column, I'll explain why their complaints are misplaced.

It is revealing that, rather than focusing on Judge Sotomayor's many opinions as a federal judge in New York City, the opposition has instead jumped on remarks that she made at two academic conferences at elite law schools, UC Berkeley in 2001 and Duke in 2005. At Duke, she suggested -- somewhat in jest, and in an aside to her main comments -- that circuit courts make "policy." I will leave this comment for inquiry by the Senate Judiciary Committee, which almost certainly " and rightly " will question Justice Sotomayor about her judicial philosophy, just as it questions all nominees on this topic. But, in any event, that philosophy would seem to be best judged by reading her opinions over her nearly two-decade career as a judge, as opposed to listening to a brief YouTube sound-bite.

In turn, my focus here is on the criticism of Judge Sotomayor's comments at a scholarly conference at UC Berkeley's law school in 2001, which provoked Rush Limbaugh to proclaim that she is a "reverse racist."

In October 2001, Judge Sotomayor delivered an invited lecture named in honor of Judge Mario G. Olmos, a respected California jurist, at UC Berkeley School of Law. Her remarks kicked off a symposium organized by the students of the Berkeley La Raza Law Journal entitled "Raising the Bar: Latino and Latina Presence in the Judiciary and the Struggle for Representation." Other participants in this conference included a group of distinguished Latino judges --California Supreme Court Justice Carlos Moreno, U.S. Circuit Judge Richard Paez, New Mexico Supreme Court Justice Patricio Serna, and others " and law teachers " including Miguel Méndez (Stanford), Leo Martínez (UC Hastings), Cruz Reynoso (UC Davis and former Associate Justice of the California Supreme Court), Joaquín Avila (Seattle), and myself (ironically enough, talking about the significance of the eventual nomination and confirmation of the first Latino on the Supreme Court, someday in the future).

Entitled "A Latina Judge's Voice," Judge Sotomayor's remarks offered some personal history, in which she made it clear that she is proud of her Puerto Rican ancestry. She then discussed the importance of a judge's personal background in the process of judging. Judge Sotomayor also spent some time discussing the under-representation of women and minorities on the bench, a phenomenon that few knowledgeable observers would dispute exists. But, the following statement is what triggered claims that this distinguished Puerto Rican jurist was a racist: "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life."

Although this remark has provoked controversy, thus far we have seen much more heat than light. I might not have put the point quite in the way that Judge Sotomayor did; however, in the context of her remarks, I know what she meant. At a conference devoted to increasing the presence of Latinos in the judiciary, which had been organized by students (many of them Latino) looking for inspiration, she was in effect stating the obvious " that a diversity of perspectives among judges matters. Race matters. Having a Latino on the U.S. Supreme Court matters. The take-home message was simple: "We need to keep working together to diversify the judiciary."

Judge Sotomayor's message is not controversial. She was suggesting that diversity of perspectives among decision-makers is likely to lead to better decision-making. That is the reason why we strive to have a jury that is drawn from a cross-section of the community, not the much-maligned all-white jury trying the African American defendant. It is also one important reason why nine " not one, two, or three " Justices deliberate to render the decisions of the U.S. Supreme Court. And it is why, by virtually all accounts " including those of their fellow Justices -- the first African American, Thurgood Marshall, and the first woman, Sandra Day O'Connor, made such a difference as members of the Supreme Court.

Some of the rest of Judge Sotomayor's speech makes it quite clear that she was not anti-white male, a preposterous proposition (but an accusation with which many people of color are all too familiar). She said that "we should not be so myopic as to believe that others of different experiences or backgrounds are incapable of understanding the values and needs of people from a different group. Many are so capable." In addition, she emphasized that "[n]o one person, judge or nominee will speak in a female or people of color voice." In these remarks, Judge Sotomayor expressly rejects any notion of racial essentialism or superiority. At the same time, she proceeded to encourage the audience to pursue efforts that ensure that "statistically significant numbers" of women and minorities serve on the bench and that, someday, the judiciary hopefully will look more like America than it does today.

In my estimation, Judge Sotomayor's stellar credentials and her unique perspective " informed in part by a racial, class and gender background different from that of any Justice ever to serve on the Supreme Court " will likely positively affect the Court's deliberations and inform and influence her colleagues on the Court. Moreover, I am confident that the Senate and the public will reject the efforts by conservatives seeking to undermine her long-awaited nomination to distort the meaning of her comments to a group of law students in 2001 " for these comments, far from being "anti-white-male," were simply pro-equality.
genoves
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 01:47 pm
@wandeljw,
Really?

Judge Sotomayor will be confirmed by the Senate. She should be since it is the President's choice. All nominees should be confirmed. Even nominees like Judge Bork.

However, some of her remarks are disconcerting. But, perhaps, she will prove, as she serves as a Supreme Court Justice, that she is not biased.

The letter from Judge Lino Graglia in today's Wall Street Journal raises some questions which Judge Sotomayor may yet answer in the future in her rulings.

Note:

Judge Graglia wrote:

"Judge Sotomayor wrote--NO HISPANICS, male or female, sit on the Fourth,Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, District of Columbia or Federal Circuits. This is the year 2002. We have a long way to go."

Graglia continues-- It is also shocking that THERE ARE NO ITALIANS, SWEDES. GREEKS OR POLES ON SEVERAL OF THESE COURTS. OR IS IT ONLY A PROBLEM IN REGARD TO HISPANICS?

We will see whether Judge Sotomayor is as sensitive to the rights of all ethics as well as Hispanics.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 01:54 pm
@genoves,
genoves wrote:
We will see whether Judge Sotomayor is as sensitive to the rights of all ethics as well as Hispanics.

Probably not, genoves. I think that is pretty obvious.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 01:55 pm
Thomas wrote:

1) I approve of temporarily nationalizing the failing banks, for two reasons:

You may be right, Thomas, but I fear that the dangers( given the rapacity of the present Obama Administration) are far worse:

Note:

Do you really want the morons that Obama has brought with him from Illinois to have a major hand in those banks?

Note:
**********************************
Fear of Bureaucracies

One reason that bank nationalization has been the subject of more talk than action is the central role that banks play in free-market economies. Critics say that nationalized banks can quickly devolve into inept bureaucracies, prone to politics and other pitfalls.

"Nationalized banks do not generally perform as well as privatized banks because they have much more complex objectives -- employment, subsidies to a particular sector or politician -- and because they generally have much looser corporate governance," says Wharton finance professor Richard J. Herring, co-director of the Wharton Financial Institutions Center. "Employees are generally civil servants and the board is generally packed with political appointees."
***************************************

Packed with Political Appointees!!! Can you say-Postal System-Thomas?
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 02:04 pm
Okie- I doubt that Sotomayor will be fair in her rulings. But she should be nominated. I do not think that the Republicans should bec0me involved in the almost Nazi like witch hunt by idiots like Ted Kennedy when they blocked Judge Bork's appointment. Let the intolerant left wingers do that!
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 02:47 pm
@genoves,
genoves wrote:
I have pissed on your shoes repeatedly and you are too much of a wimp to even try to respond. [..] I jammed it up your diseased anus with evidence.
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 02:48 pm
@nimh,
Sorry, that was intended for the "Things people posted that would make perfect sig lines" thread - copy/pasted it into the wrong place.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 03:04 pm
@nimh,
I hope you reported the bastard.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 03:15 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

I hope you reported the bastard.


why bother? he'd just sign up on a different computer under another name. he has his right to free speech. and he certainly is free with it.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 03:19 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
See how easy it is to clarify one's remarks if just given the opportunity to do so? I doubt this little exercise will register on the MALs however, as 'equality under the law' in practical application seems a bit foreign to most. But oh well.


Foxfyre wrote:
Ad hominem does not have to be blatantly insulting but draws an assumption of the unstated thought or emotion or character of the other person.
or group, Fox?

Oh well, indeed.


Nope you don't quite have the concept down yet, but keep trying. I have faith in you Parados. You'll get there.
parados
 
  3  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 04:05 pm
@Foxfyre,
So, your statements are not to be taken seriously?

Either you stand by your statement or you don't Fox.

Sarcasm isn't a defense in your definition of "ad hom."
Foxfyre wrote:
Ad hominem does not have to be blatantly insulting but draws an assumption of the unstated thought or emotion or character of the other person.


Quote:
I have faith in you Parados. You'll get there.
That looks a lot like what you would call an "ad hom" Fox since we can assume you meant it sarcastically. Now your last 4 posts to me all meet your "ad hom" standard.
Debra Law
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 04:19 pm
@parados,
Foxfyre routinely attacks other posters. It is her modus operandi to accuse others of her own nefarious conduct. That way, she can pretend to be the victim while she engages in projection. Nothing she says can be taken seriously. She's a spewer of irrational propaganda.
Foxfyre
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 04:43 pm
@parados,
No Parados. Study up though and you probably will figure it out.
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 04:49 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

No Parados. Study up though and you probably will figure it out.


You are quite incorrect, and Parados is correct. You don't know what you are talking about re: Ad hominem and what it means, and yes, you use them all the time.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 05:14 pm
From the Philosophy Department at Lander University, a state-supported liberal arts college in Greenwood, South Carolina:

Quote:
Argumentum ad Hominem (abusive and circumstantial): the fallacy of attacking the character or circumstances of an individual who is advancing a statement or an argument instead of trying to disprove the truth of the statement or the soundness of the argument. Often the argument is characterized simply as a personal attack. (emphasis added)


From Gary N. Curtis' "Fallacy Files (Mr. Curtis has a PhD in Philosophy from Indiana University):

Quote:
For instance, ad hominem is one of the most frequently misidentified fallacies, probably because it is one of the best known ones. Many people seem to think that any personal criticism, attack, or insult counts as an ad hominem fallacy. Moreover, in some contexts the phrase "ad hominem" may refer to an ethical lapse, rather than a logical mistake, as it may be a violation of debate etiquette to engage in personalities. So, in addition to ignorance, there is also the possibility of equivocation on the meaning of "ad hominem".


From Glen Whitman's "Logical Fallacies and the Art of Debate" page (Mr. Whitman has a PhD in economics, and is an associate professor of economics at the California State University at Northridge.)

Quote:
It is always bad form to use the fallacy of argumentum ad hominem. But there are some cases when it is not really a fallacy, such as when one needs to evaluate the truth of factual statements (as opposed to lines of argument or statements of value) made by interested parties. If someone has an incentive to lie about something, then it would be naive to accept his statements about that subject without question. It is also possible to restate many ad hominem arguments so as to redirect them toward ideas rather than people, such as by replacing "My opponents are fascists" with "My opponents' arguments are fascist." (emphasis added)


Visit this page by David Hitchcock at McMaster University for an interesting discussion of why the argumentum ad hominem fallacy does not exist--as a fallacy, at any rate.

I suspect that Fox has me on ignore again. Somebody will need to quote my post for her to see. Not that i believe it will serve to educate her--c.f. Debra Law's most recent post on Fox's behavior in these discussions.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 05:46 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

Foxfyre routinely attacks other posters. It is her modus operandi to accuse others of her own nefarious conduct. That way, she can pretend to be the victim while she engages in projection. Nothing she says can be taken seriously. She's a spewer of irrational propaganda.


Laughing Laughing

Too funny.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 06:02 pm
You're all wrong. An argumentum ad hominem is a term to describe an argument where someone is being mean to Foxfyre.
 

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