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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 02:48 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Uh, oh. One of our resident Berklians has taken offense that one of their own has broken free of the collective!
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 02:50 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Uh, oh. One of our resident Berklians has taken offense that one of their own has broken free of the collective!


Spoken just like someone who has no experience with the region whatsoever; same as the author of your piece, I would bet.

Berkeley is not the Liberal place you imagine it to be.

Cycloptichorn
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 02:59 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Oh don't spoil the meme Cyclo. Conservatives count on being able to discredit anyone from Berkeley as being dismissably liberal. That is until someone conservative from their speaks, then they want it to mean more than normal...

I guess then that by the same logic the conservative Iowa supreme court's ruling on same sex marriage should have meant more to them. It didn't.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 03:58 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:

I am sure race is the reason you oppose Michael Steele too, right Cyclops? If a black man is the chairman of a party you oppose, that is probably a factor, it has to be, doesn't it? If you are a racist, that would be the case, most certainly.


Who told you I oppose Michael Steele? I love that guy!

He's doing wonders for the Democratic party these days. Wouldn't you agree?

Keep trying, maybe you'll connect with a funny or insightful comment one of these days. I doubt it, but it sure is fun in the meantime.

Back on topic,

Do you still have a stick up your ass about the new guy? You ought to learn to let it go and enjoy the next few years. And you just know he's got an overwhelming chance of winning again in 4 years. Instead of being upset the whole time, why don't you just relax and see how things turn out?

Cyclotpichorn

Right is still right, whether anyone is doing it or not. I can't help it if Obama will bankrupt the country while nobody cares. I can only stick to what is correct, and so if public opinion turns against Obama, great, if not, I am not going to change my opinion just to be trendy. I don't vote for anyone because they look cool in sunglasses, or because he offered them more money, or because his skin is somewhat black, or whatever reason people voted for Obama.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 04:11 pm
@okie,
Who did you vote for again?

Must have been a third party candidate right? You'd never be trendy and vote GOP cause you thought they'd have a better chance of winning. No. You're true blood Republican and proud of it.

T
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 04:15 pm
@Diest TKO,
McCain, certainly not Obama. I am a conservative first, then Republican, so I wasn't all that happy with McCain, but he was my only option. No candidate is ever a perfect fit. Thats just simple reality of politics.
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 04:42 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

McCain, certainly not Obama. I am a conservative first, then Republican, so I wasn't all that happy with McCain, but he was my only option. No candidate is ever a perfect fit. Thats just simple reality of politics.


uh huh, sure.

conservative first...

You're a Republican. You vote for Republicans. You had other options. You're just ANOTHER trendy Republican.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 04:49 pm
Makes one wonder why these Conservatives didn't take Ron Paul more seriously.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 04:50 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
And you just know he's got an overwhelming chance of winning again in 4 years


And you know this how?
You attack Okie for trying to say how the Obama admin will turn out after only 4 months in office, and now you are doing the exact same thing.

So, what is going to happen?
Will there be nothing that could affect his popularity?
Will he be alive in 4 years to run?
Will the world still exist in 4 years?
Will the US have suffered a complete financial meltdown, causing him to decide not to run?

Dont say with any certainty what will happen, and then blast others for doing the same thing.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 04:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Conservatives who talk about pro-life also thinks pro-choice always means pro-abortions - to kill babies.


That is such BS, and you know it.

But, lets examine it for a moment.
There have been many instances of pro-life people being forced away from abortion clinics, because the pro-choice crowd felt threatened by them.

If someone is truly "pro-choice", then why do they oppose any attempt to give a choice to a woman going in to have an abortion?
If the people that claim to be "pro-choice" really are, they should welcome the pro-life people, and help them show what the options are, other then abortion.

But that never seems to happen, does it?
Why doesnt it?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 05:20 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
Conservatives who talk about pro-life also thinks pro-choice always means pro-abortions - to kill babies.


That is such BS, and you know it.

But, lets examine it for a moment.
There have been many instances of pro-life people being forced away from abortion clinics, because the pro-choice crowd felt threatened by them.

If someone is truly "pro-choice", then why do they oppose any attempt to give a choice to a woman going in to have an abortion?
If the people that claim to be "pro-choice" really are, they should welcome the pro-life people, and help them show what the options are, other then abortion.

But that never seems to happen, does it?
Why doesnt it?


Well, probably for a few reasons:

First, it isn't like women don't know what the other options are than having an abortion - keeping the kid, or adoption. How much 'splaining do you think you have to do to these ladies, exactly?

Second, one the the primary reasons people going to clinics feel threatened by the pro-life crowd, is the fact that said crowds exist in large part in order to intimidate and threaten people who are going in. It isn't as if wacko pro-lifers haven't resorted to violence and abusive behavior in the past (just like every other wacko group, including leftist ones, so don't think I'm trying to single them out).

Third, the protestors aren't really attempting to 'give the woman a choice.' That's presumptuous of you - they have the choice independent of your actions or decisions. Instead, they are trying to convince them that there IS no choice. Not cool.

Try turning the situation around - how would you feel, if there were people who hung around hospitals and maternity wards, and tried to convince ladies to have an abortion? Not cool, is it? That's how the other side feels about people who do that, as well.

Cycloptichorn
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 05:30 pm
I have always found it ironic that those who are "pro-life" are so convinced of the rectitude of their position, that they are content to see clinic workers and abortion physicians killed.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 05:35 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
Conservatives who talk about pro-life also thinks pro-choice always means pro-abortions - to kill babies.


That is such BS, and you know it.

But, lets examine it for a moment.
There have been many instances of pro-life people being forced away from abortion clinics, because the pro-choice crowd felt threatened by them.

If someone is truly "pro-choice", then why do they oppose any attempt to give a choice to a woman going in to have an abortion?
If the people that claim to be "pro-choice" really are, they should welcome the pro-life people, and help them show what the options are, other then abortion.

But that never seems to happen, does it?
Why doesnt it?

Pro-choice people don't stop people from making choices. That's total crap MM. Having pro-lifers forced away is not keeping those people from making choices. Those people have already made their choice most likely. Those pro-lifers outside the clinics specific purpose is to intimidate.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 05:36 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Try turning the situation around - how would you feel, if there were people who hung around hospitals and maternity wards, and tried to convince ladies to have an abortion? Not cool, is it? That's how the other side feels about people who do that, as well.


Since I am pro-choice, I would have no problem with it.
But to me, while I am pro-choice, I hope that life is chosen, not death.
It seems that many of the people that claim to be pro-choice feel the exact opposite.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 05:43 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
Try turning the situation around - how would you feel, if there were people who hung around hospitals and maternity wards, and tried to convince ladies to have an abortion? Not cool, is it? That's how the other side feels about people who do that, as well.


Since I am pro-choice, I would have no problem with it.
But to me, while I am pro-choice, I hope that life is chosen, not death.
It seems that many of the people that claim to be pro-choice feel the exact opposite.

I'm pro-choice, and I'd take offense to people loitering around hospitals trying to convince strangers to get abortions. Pro-choice is not pro-abortion and I ademently disagree with the idea that pro-choice people want people to abort.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 05:53 pm
http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq289/LindaBee_2008/th_TEAPARTY.jpg

It will be interesting to see if this idea gains legs:

Quote:
Once Considered Unthinkable, U.S. Sales Tax Gets Fresh Look
Levy Viewed as Way to Reduce Deficits, Fund Health Reform
By Lori Montgomery
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 27, 2009

With budget deficits soaring and President Obama pushing a trillion-dollar-plus expansion of health coverage, some Washington policymakers are taking a fresh look at a money-making idea long considered politically taboo: a national sales tax.

Common around the world, including in Europe, such a tax -- called a value-added tax, or VAT -- has not been seriously considered in the United States. But advocates say few other options can generate the kind of money the nation will need to avert fiscal calamity.

At a White House conference earlier this year on the government's budget problems, a roomful of tax experts pleaded with Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner to consider a VAT. A recent flurry of books and papers on the subject is attracting genuine, if furtive, interest in Congress. And last month, after wrestling with the White House over the massive deficits projected under Obama's policies, the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee declared that a VAT should be part of the debate.

MORE HERE:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/26/AR2009052602909_pf.html


Reminder of President Obama's campaign promise (already broken of course):
Quote:
"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."


So.....when will we see the rationale solution for the current financial crisis which is to roll back and cut spending and put all non essential projects on hold
until we are financiall solvent again? Traditionally Congress has spent every penny it has ever collected in taxes and more. There is no reason to think that won't continue to be the case unless the people revolt in earnest.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 06:01 pm
@Foxfyre,
The only revolt is at the polls, but as we all know, that hasn't worked. We have found the enemy, and ...
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 07:33 pm
The Sonia Sotomayor appointment:

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-DT177_oj_1so_E_20090526192600.jpg

Empathy:
Quote:
President Obama's articulated criteria for his nominee to the U.S. Supreme Court is: "We need somebody who's got the heart to recognize -- the empathy to recognize what it's like to be a young teenage mom, the empathy to understand what it's like to be poor or African-American or gay or disabled or old. And that's the criteria by which I'm going to be selecting my judges."

What is the role of a U.S. Supreme Court justice? A reasonable start for an answer is the recognition that our Constitution represents the rules of the game. A Supreme Court justice has one job and one job only namely; he is a referee. There is nothing complicated about this. A referee's job, whether he is a football referee or a Supreme Court justice, is to know the rules of the game and make sure that they are evenly applied without bias. Do we want referees to allow empathy to influence their decisions? Let's look at it using this year's Super Bowl as an example.

The Pittsburgh Steelers have won six Super Bowl titles, seven AFC championships and hosted 10 conference games. No other AFC or NFC team can match this record. By contrast, the Arizona Cardinals' last championship victory was in 1947 when they were based in Chicago. In anyone's book, this is a gross disparity. Should the referees have the empathy to understand what it's like to be a perennial loser and what would you think of a referee whose decisions were guided by his empathy? Suppose a referee, in the name of compensatory justice, stringently applied pass interference or roughing the passer violations against the Steelers and less stringently against the Cardinals. Or, would you support a referee who refused to make offensive pass interference calls because he thought it was a silly rule? You'd probably remind him that the league makes the rules, not referees.

I'm betting that most people would agree that football justice requires that referees apply the rules blindly and independent of the records or any other characteristic of the two teams. Moreover, I believe that most people would agree that referees should evenly apply the rules of the games even if they personally disagreed with some of the rules.
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/09/EmpathyVersusLaw.htm


Is Sonia Sotomayor judically superior to 'a white male'?
Quote:
In making Sonia Sotomayor his first nominee for the Supreme Court yesterday, President Obama appears to have found the ideal match for his view that personal experience and cultural identity are the better part of judicial wisdom.

This isn't a jurisprudence that the Founders would recognize, but it is the creative view that has dominated the law schools since the 1970s and from which both the President and Judge Sotomayor emerged. In the President's now-famous word, judging should be shaped by "empathy" as much or more than by reason. In this sense, Judge Sotomayor would be a thoroughly modern Justice, one for whom the law is a voyage of personal identity.

"Experience being tested by obstacles and barriers, by hardship and misfortune; experience insisting, persisting, and ultimately overcoming those barriers," Mr. Obama said yesterday in introducing Ms. Sotomayor. "It is experience that can give a person a common touch of compassion; an understanding of how the world works and how ordinary people live. And that is why it is a necessary ingredient in the kind of Justice we need on the Supreme Court."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124338457658756731.html


Does struggling to get where you are trump excellence in what you do?
Quote:
Much is being made of the fact that Sonia Sotomayor had to struggle to rise in the world. But stop and think.

If you were going to have open heart surgery, would you want to be operated on by a surgeon who was chosen because he had to struggle to get where he is or by the best surgeon you could find" even if he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and had every advantage that money and social position could offer?

If it were you who was going to be lying on that operating table with his heart cut open, you wouldn't give a tinker's damn about somebody's struggle or somebody else's privileges.
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell052709.php3

wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 08:01 pm
@Foxfyre,
From article quoted by Foxfyre:
Quote:
What is the role of a U.S. Supreme Court justice? A reasonable start for an answer is the recognition that our Constitution represents the rules of the game. A Supreme Court justice has one job and one job only namely; he is a referee. There is nothing complicated about this. A referee's job, whether he is a football referee or a Supreme Court justice, is to know the rules of the game and make sure that they are evenly applied without bias. Do we want referees to allow empathy to influence their decisions? Let's look at it using this year's Super Bowl as an example.


I didn't check your link, Foxfyre, but can you tell us anything about the person who wrote that?

From the link:
Quote:
Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 09:02 pm
@wandeljw,
Foxie wrote:
Quote:
A referee's job, whether he is a football referee or a Supreme Court justice, is to know the rules of the game and make sure that they are evenly applied without bias.


Referees are humans, and humans are prone to mistakes whether it's a game or the supreme court justices. Put a little sun light in your life.
0 Replies
 
 

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