55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 11:54 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

From that Pew poll:

http://people-press.org/reports/images/517-1.gif

And the link:
http://people-press.org/report/517/political-values-and-core-attitudes

Both parties continue to lose favor with the general public, but the Democrats more so at a faster rate since President Obama took office. It would appear that a lot of folks are not all that pleased with the way that things are going.



The Dems have lost 6 points of party ID and the Republicans 4. Not a huge difference. And in terms of percentage, they are almost exactly the same.

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 11:58 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yup. But people like Colin Powell want the party to be more centrist even after we just lost an election by 10 million votes when we ran the most liberal candidate ever to head a GOP ticket. I think General Powell's advice is not wise to follow on that score. John McCain looks like a conservative extremist compared to Barack Obama, but I don't think the GOP is losing members because it emulates conservative values, but it is losing members because it has abandoned so many conservative values.

The GOP does need to distance itself from the more radical extremists in its midst and not include agenda on its platform that should not be prerogative of the federal government. But it does NOT need to become more liberal.
Diest TKO
 
  4  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 12:07 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
But people like Colin Powell want the party to be more centrist even after we just lost an election by 10 million votes when we ran the most liberal candidate ever to head a GOP ticket.

yeah, you took a moderate candidate, and then had him run a ultra conservative campaign then paired him up with an anti-intellectual-super conservative poster child Sarah Palin.

I love that when you lose to the liberals, it was the (claimed) liberal qualities of the conservative's campaign that you give credit to the loss.

McCain certainly had the disadvantage after Bush. People just don't want the right-wing agenda. Deal with it. Mourn if you must, but cut the dishonesty.

T
K
O
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 12:11 pm
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
But people like Colin Powell want the party to be more centrist even after we just lost an election by 10 million votes when we ran the most liberal candidate ever to head a GOP ticket.

yeah, you took a moderate candidate, and then had him run a ultra conservative campaign then paired him up with an anti-intellectual-super conservative poster child Sarah Palin.

I love that when you lose to the liberals, it was the (claimed) liberal qualities of the conservative's campaign that you give credit to the loss.

McCain certainly had the disadvantage after Bush. People just don't want the right-wing agenda. Deal with it. Mourn if you must, but cut the dishonesty.

T
K
O


Shh! Don't dissuade them from becoming increasingly Conservative!

Cycloptichorn
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 12:12 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I should not be getting into public strategy arguments with my alter ego.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 01:42 pm
I think that Petraeus's name has mentioned as a possible GOP presidential candidate in 2012.

General David Petraeus chooses Obama over Cheney.

From the transscript of his Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty interview:


Quote:
I think, on balance, that those moves help [us]," said the chief of U.S. Central Command. "In fact, I have long been on record as having testified and also in helping write doctrine for interrogation techniques that are completely in line with the Geneva Convention. And as a division commander in Iraq in the early days, we put out guidance very early on to make sure that our soldiers, in fact, knew that we needed to stay within those guidelines.

With respect to Guantanamo,I think that the closure in a responsible manner, obviously one that is certainly being worked out now by the Department of Justice -- I talked to the Attorney General the other day [and] they have a very intensive effort ongoing to determine, indeed, what to do with the detainees who are left, how to deal with them in a legal way, and if continued incarceration is necessary -- again, how to take that forward. But doing that in a responsible manner, I think, sends an important message to the world, as does the commitment of the United States to observe the Geneva Convention when it comes to the treatment of detainees.
... ... ...


Full interview as video
genoves
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 02:24 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Herr Hinteler. I am completely opposed to having a military man at the head of our government. The dilemma that Germany found itself in when they appointed Adolf Hitler should give warning to the world that many military leaders are war mongers.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 02:25 pm
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO--are you German like Herr Hinteler? You sound like it!
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 02:30 pm
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO--Don't you know that Powell is an Afro-American? They never break ranks for any reason. Blackness and racial loyalty precedes any other value. Of course, we know why--Afro-Americans have suffered far far more than any other group in the History of the world. Even more than the Jews.

Those who know how to read can read "Roll, Jordan,Roll, by the respected Historian, Eugene Genovese, who writes that, physically, the slaves in the South( we must remember that many blacks in the North were freemen) were far better off than many of the serfs in Russia and Poland.

Powell is completely consumed by the fact that he is an Afro-American and lets all other principles be controlled by that factor.
genoves
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 02:37 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Since Cyclops is obviously partially blind, he does not know that Obama's approval ratings are heading down hill very quickly.

Rasmussen Reports notes the following:

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Tuesday, May 26, 2009.
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 31% of the nation's voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty percent (30%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of +1. That’s the lowest positive rating yet received by the new President .

end of quote

THE LOWEST POSITIVE RATING RECEIVED BY THE NEW PRESIDENT!!!!!

And this is only four or five months since BO has been elected!!!!

The Republicans in the House and in the Senate( those up for re-election) are hoping that the Community Organizer from Chicago keeps fouling up, contradicing himself, endorsing the Bush policies he eschewed in his campaign and raising the Unemployment Rate.

It is possible that the election in 2010 will produce a Democratic Party that did not know what hit it--somewhat like the Democratic Party in 1994!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 04:59 pm
OBAMA IS EMULATING O'BRIEN
Obama is directing the accumulation and transference of wealth, to operate in conformity with Miniplenty.

SOROS IS EMULATING BIG BROTHER
Soros is directing the Democrat Party and the news media that supports it to operate in conformity with Minitrue.

GEORGE ORWELL FAVORED SOCIALISM AS HE ENVISIONED IT
His book, 1984, was a clear warning of how socialism as he envisioned it appeared to him in his time to be in the process of evolving into a horrible system of dictatorial government.

Quote:

http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79n/
NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR by George Orwell
...
APPENDIX.
The Principles of Newspeak
Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been devised to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The leading articles in ‘The Times’ were written in it, but this was a TOUR DE FORCE which could only be carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English, as we should call it) by about the year 2050.
...
It was impossible to translate any passage of Oldspeak into Newspeak unless it either referred to some technical process or some very simple everyday action, or was already orthodox (GOODTHINKFUL would be the Newspeak expression) in tendency. In practice this meant that no book written before approximately 1960 could be translated as a whole. Pre-revolutionary literature could only be subjected to ideological translation"that is, alteration in sense as well as language. Take for example the well-known passage from the Declaration of Independence:

WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF-EVIDENT, THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, THAT THEY ARE ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR WITH CERTAIN INALIENABLE RIGHTS, THAT AMONG THESE ARE LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. THAT TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, GOVERNMENTS ARE INSTITUTED AMONG MEN, DERIVING THEIR POWERS FROM THE CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED. THAT WHENEVER ANY FORM OF GOVERNMENT BECOMES DESTRUCTIVE OF THOSE ENDS, IT IS THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO ALTER OR ABOLISH IT, AND TO INSTITUTE NEW GOVERNMENT...

It would have been quite impossible to render this into Newspeak while keeping to the sense of the original. The nearest one could come to doing so would be to swallow the whole passage up in the single word CRIMETHINK. A full translation could only be an ideological translation, whereby Jefferson’s words would be changed into a panegyric on absolute government.
...

Think about what would be the probable difficulty one would have translating the Constitution of the USA, as lawfully amended, into Newspeak, "while keeping the sense of the original." Since 1913, it has been evolving into Newspeak when the notion was adopted that the Constitution was a "living document," amendable by either the courts, the Congress or the President in violation of its Article V.

Orwell's pessimism led him to expect that worst by 1984. I think that the pace of the way things are going with Obama's governance, what Orwell foresaw for 1984 is more likely to occur well before 2084, 75 years from now.

Orwell published 1984 in 1948, 36 years before 1984.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 12:19 am
@genoves,
genoves wrote:
blah blah blah racist nonsense blah blah

Well, when you put it like that...

T
K
O
genoves
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 12:37 am
@Diest TKO,
You are quite dense, aren't you, Diest TKO. The blah blah blah racist nonsense blah blah comes from the contemporary Nazis in our country who, despite all the evidence do not know that African-Americans, who get into Medical and Law Schools through affirmative action, invariably end up in the lower half of the class.

That is not RACIST NONSENSE. That is fact. But, I know that Herr Diest( which one of your relatives in Nazi Germany killed Jews-Diest?) does not allow the truth to be written.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 12:39 am
Ican wrote:

OBAMA IS EMULATING O'BRIEN
Obama is directing the accumulation and transference of wealth, to operate in conformity with Miniplenty.

SOROS IS EMULATING BIG BROTHER
Soros is directing the Democrat Party and the news media that supports it to operate in conformity with Minitrue.

GEORGE ORWELL FAVORED SOCIALISM AS HE ENVISIONED IT
His book, 1984, was a clear warning of how socialism as he envisioned it appeared to him in his time to be in the process of evolving into a horrible system of dictatorial government.

***************************************************

right on the money--Ican!!
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 01:16 am
colin powell wants the gop to move to a more centrist position. that would allow for entirely too many points of view.

shame, really. and they were doing so well.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 01:17 am
genoves' mother dresses him funny.
genoves
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 01:21 am
@DontTreadOnMe,
I am so sorry to have to tell you this, DTOM, but my mother is deceased.

Try some other slurs.

Or better yet, rack your brains to rebut my posts.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 01:22 am
Rasmussen Reports notes the following:

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Tuesday, May 26, 2009.
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 31% of the nation's voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty percent (30%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of +1. That’s the lowest positive rating yet received by the new President .

end of quote

THE LOWEST POSITIVE RATING RECEIVED BY THE NEW PRESIDENT!!!!!

And this is only four or five months since BO has been elected!!!!

The Republicans in the House and in the Senate( those up for re-election) are hoping that the Community Organizer from Chicago keeps fouling up, contradicing himself, endorsing the Bush policies he eschewed in his campaign and raising the Unemployment Rate.

It is possible that the election in 2010 will produce a Democratic Party that did not know what hit it--somewhat like the Democratic Party in 1994!
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 09:12 am
@genoves,
genoves wrote:

Rasmussen Reports notes the following:

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Tuesday, May 26, 2009.
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 31% of the nation's voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty percent (30%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of +1. That’s the lowest positive rating yet received by the new President .

end of quote

THE LOWEST POSITIVE RATING RECEIVED BY THE NEW PRESIDENT!!!!!

And this is only four or five months since BO has been elected!!!!

The Republicans in the House and in the Senate( those up for re-election) are hoping that the Community Organizer from Chicago keeps fouling up, contradicing himself, endorsing the Bush policies he eschewed in his campaign and raising the Unemployment Rate.

It is possible that the election in 2010 will produce a Democratic Party that did not know what hit it--somewhat like the Democratic Party in 1994!


Today, it seems to have improved slightly again, as it keeps bouncing along with the two curves very close together, but I think it is inevitably going to go negative for Obama, because the people can't be that blind that long, can they?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/var/plain/storage/images/media/obama_index_graphics/may_2009/obama_index_may_27_2009/222067-1-eng-US/obama_index_may_27_2009.jpg
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 09:18 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Yup. But people like Colin Powell want the party to be more centrist even after we just lost an election by 10 million votes when we ran the most liberal candidate ever to head a GOP ticket. I think General Powell's advice is not wise to follow on that score. John McCain looks like a conservative extremist compared to Barack Obama, but I don't think the GOP is losing members because it emulates conservative values, but it is losing members because it has abandoned so many conservative values.

The GOP does need to distance itself from the more radical extremists in its midst and not include agenda on its platform that should not be prerogative of the federal government. But it does NOT need to become more liberal.

Foxfyre, Powell failed to vote for a so-called centrist, a reach across the aisle guy, McCain. I think that says alot more about Powell than it does the Republican Party. Powell doesn't make alot of sense, really none as far as I can see. I think he has lost his marbles. I think its a case of somebody that wants to appear "with it" or "trendy." He would rather be popular and be approved by the Washingtonian elites than he would actually look at the issues and stand for what he stood for before.
 

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