AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

People don't get kicked off the new A2K nor are they blocked unless committing grossly illegal activity. To deal with those you object to, simply put them on ignore. Then you don't see their posts so they no longer bother you. And you don't clutter up threads complaining about them. I can't tell you how much more pleasant A2K has been for me since I gave in and started doing that.

(Nobody and I mean nobody gets ignored by me simply by posting something I disagree with . Only those who are the kind of immature types who regularly, inappropriately, and unkindly directly, intentionally, and personally post unnecessary insults directed at me or others get ignored.)

Massagato/Italgato/Mortkat/BernardR/genoves has never failed yet to eventually go into extreme meltdown, and I wouldn't take bets on its not happening again. It'll be interesting to see if the new a2k containment structure which foxfyre says is in place will contain him when he goes all China syndrome on us and starts melting his way toward the center of the earth.

Given Fox's low, low threshold for taking offense at what people post, i'm surprised she doesn't have half the membership on ignore.

Well of course if your interest is of the type to watch somebody self-destruct you probably wouldn't enjoy the ignore feature.

Seriously the sad part is that too many otherwise good threads have been destroyed by people who spam the thread with post after post after post of usually unlinked or unsourced not-all-that-interesting stuff or those who are so consistently meanspirited and obnoxiously annoying with personally directed insults, ad hominem, non sequiturs, and self-righteous judgments that they turn people off. I suspect many formerly great members of A2K that were really fun and edifying to have around just don't bother anymore because of that kind of meanspirited and destructive behavior. And unfortunately, my ignoring the worst offenders doesn't help other members not be subjected to that even though there aren't all that many offenders. Right now I have four people on ignore. I'm sure they are still trashing me or others regularly, but that says more about them than it does me.

Foxie wrote:

Fits you like a "glove" Foxie!

NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR by George Orwell was published June 1949. Orwell time-labeled his warning 1984, but his warning is a perpetual and timeless warning of humanity's propensity to contain and even court personalities in its midst that are dangerous to humanity's existence. These are the personalities in humanity's midst that seek power over what the rest of humanity thinks and what the rest of humanity does. They seek this power for no other purpose than gaining power over the rest of humanity. Possessing that power over even some of humanity deludes them into thinking they are of greater worth than those over which they possess their power. The truth is for them to hold others down, they must also be down.

The current toleration by some of humanity of mass murderers of non-murderers in their midst are the current best example of at least some of humanity courting personalities in their midst that are dangerous to humanity's existence. They are courting the persons in humanity's midst that seek power over what the rest of humanity thinks and does. They seek this power for no other purpose than gaining power over the rest of humanity.

You look at the slogans from Nineteen Eight Four and it does give you pause for thought:

WAR IS PEACE

The war in the novel was of course the perpetual hostile conflict between two superpowers versus a third and alliances could shift seamlessly from one to another while the "Minister of Peace" artfully designed the transition so that the people would believe that the current ally had always been an ally and the current enemy had always been the enemy. By keeping the masses focused on the presumed enemy and ally, a patriotic fervor and loyalty could be ensured.

Fast forward to 2009 and much of the same tactics seem to be in play. Now the 'minister of peace' convinces us that war is peace--war against wall street, war against corporate greed, war against traditional values, the traditional family, accommodation of criminal activity while condemning those who condemn it--if we defeat the named enemy we achieve peace and prosperity.

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

The people are enslaved if they are subject to the consequences of the choices they make or the risks they take and they are free only if Big Brother makes their choices for them and therefore removes all risk. The only consequences are reserved for those who would presume to challenge, question, or attempt to obstruct Big Brother toward that end. So we now have government running the banks, the auto industry, mandating our choices and use of energy, dictating wages, and contemplating nationalizing the oil industry.

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Big Brother will tell us what we should know and to be subjected to any other thoughts will only make us unhappy and weaken us as a group as we reach for our goals. Big Brother's loyal disciples nod and agree with the party edicts and resist and reject any who would oppose it. Those who oppose it are in fact the enemy and must be disciplined or eliminated.

Our Founding Fathers were too soon for the novel, but they could have written it as a warning.

For those who believe in such nonsense, it were a blessing that E. A. Blair, otherwise known as George Orwell, has been dead these fifty years and more. One can easily imagine the horror and loathing he would experience to see his thoughtful prose so cavalierly used to support the drivel that Ican't has written, and which bears no relation to the content nor the meaning of Orwell's opus.

Now think about 2084 and note it is now May 2009, almost 60 years after June 1949 and 75 years before June 2084.
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http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79n/
insertions by ican
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That strange sound in the distance is Mr. Blair turning over in his grave and moaning.

As you apparently are aware, Eric Arthur Blair--alias George Orwell--was born in 1903 in Montihari, Bengal. He first published his book, 1984, in 1948. He died in 1949.

Orwell denied his book was an attack on Socialism. But according to Julian Symons, the writer of the Introduction in my copy of the book, "The book was almost from the day of publication interpreted by conservatives everywhere as an attack on the totalitarian nature of Socialsism by a writer who had seen the light."

I think, in 1984 Orwell described what he believed to be a possible eventual outcome of conditions in 1948. I think Obama is a prime candidate for Orwell's "Obrien."

Ican: Using the allegory of the cave, you are a long-term prisoner who has been chained in the conservative, tax-protestor, cave. Your only view of reality comes in the form of shadows cast by your captors on the cave wall directly in front of you. You're constrained in your ability to see anything other than these distorted forms. Because Obama challenges your shadowy "reality," you erroneously allege that Obama emulates "Obrien," a character in Orwell's 1984.

You fail to understand that Obrien tortured poor Winston until he "voluntarily" submitted to the notion that reality is whatever the totalitarian party said it was. Obama isn't "Obrien;" Limbaugh/Hannity/Bush/Cheney are "Obrien." And you're Winston. You voluntarily sit in the comfort of your cave and in the bliss of your chains while you stare at the shadows that your handlers cast on the wall in front of you. You repeat the totalitarian party slogans:

Torture is Humane
Change is a Teabag
Greed is Salvation

Pretty much describes ican to a "t."

I find it fascinating, Debra, that you accuse me of behaving almost exactly the way you do:
Debra: Using the allegory of the cave, you are a long-term prisoner who has been chained in the liberal, wealth redistributionist cave. Your only view of reality comes in the form of shadows cast by your captors on the cave wall directly in front of you. You're constrained in your ability to see anything other than these distorted forms.

Furthermore, you accuse me, merely an enthusiastic supporter of the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the USA, of doing what you do: You voluntarily sit in the comfort of your cave and in the bliss of your chains while you stare at the shadows that your handlers cast on the wall in front of you. You repeat the MAL party slogans:
All forms of torture are inhumane;
Change is redistribution of wealth--taking what some have lawfully earned and giving it to those who have not lawfully earned it;
Negotiating with and giving the envious what they want will change them from being murderers into civilized persons.

I actually think waterboarding is a relatively humane way of forcing information from murderous terrorists who if not captive would murder or plan to murder civilians. Waterboarding did not kill, mame, disable, disfigure or cripple any waterboarded persons. But it did succeed in getting three captive murderous terrorists in Gitmo to confess what other civilian mass murders were planned by their associates. That enabled us to prevent those planned mass murders.

I oppose all torture which subsequently kills, mames, disables, disfigures or cripples anyone. I also oppose all persons who make false accusations.

Foxfyre, one of the nicest people posting on this forum, and regularly libs hate this, they take potshots at you constantly. Don't worry, your character shines through, Foxfyre.

Thank you Okie. I do think honorable people can disagree without seeing each other as evil or inferior. Heaven knows you and Ican and I have all disagreed with each other on more than one occasion, and it's damn frustrating when you two turn out to be right more often than I am. But I like you anyway.

Okie- You are quite correct. Foxfyre must be a saint. She has been hooted at, denigrated, made fun of, derided, and contradicted without reason.

Yet she maintains a scholarly and well researched approach to the questions.

I know she objects( with good reason) to the tenor of some of my posts. She may not agree with my view that the left wing DOES NOT WANT TO SEE ANY POSTS LIKE HERS WHICH CONSTANTLY SHOW EVIDENCE THAT THE LEFT WING DOES NOT WANT TO SEE SINCE THEY CANT HANDLE IT.

I am sure the gentle and rational Foxfyre does not agree but my view of most of the characters who smear her constantly is that those people are like a group of chimpanzees who gather on these threads ONLY to groom each other. Like a group of apes, they scream when they are interrupted in their grooming--
Can't you hear them, Okie/

Groom, groom, groom-_Cheney should be jailed--groom groom groom--Bush is a torturer who did not close Gitmo...groom groom groom---Women have a right to abort their babies--Its' called CHOICE. groom groom groom.

Don 't pay attention to the imbecilic Cicerone Imposter, Okie. Even the balanced views of Foxfyre have revealed that even she cannot understand some of his regurgitations.

Keep probing at Cyclops, Okie. You may not be aware of this, but Cyclops comes from Berkeley. Berkeley has the reputation of being the headquarters of Communist and Socialist thinking in the USA--look it up.

Keep rebutting Parados, Okie. I know it is difficult because he has no integtiy and will never admit that he has been rebutted.

A recent case( one of many, Okie) is my disclosure of evidence that BO, through his position on the Woods Foundation in Chicago( he was put on there by the Anti-American Mr. Ayres) caused thousand of dollars to be funnelled to ACORN. Most people are aware that ACORN, largely composed of inner city thugs and marginal Latinos newly arrived to the USA, stole thousands of votes and committed flagrant voter fraud.

Cheers, Okie--Keep up the good fight!

Ican wrote:

I find it fascinating, Debra, that you accuse me of behaving almost exactly the way you do:
Debra: Using the allegory of the cave, you are a long-term prisoner who has been chained in the liberal, wealth redistributionist cave. Your only view of reality comes in the form of shadows cast by your captors on the cave wall directly in front of you. You're constrained in your ability to see anything other than these distorted forms.
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Ican-- I see you are a student of Plato. Good analogy.

But I must warn you. When you go against Debra L A W, you are going against one of the best female legal minds in the world. You don't believe me? Ask her.

The truth is that she copies most of her blurbs from articles and really knows very little about law. If she was really Debra L A W, she would be busy in a large law firm making a half million a year and would have no time to write on threads such as these.

She is a fraud. Despite her pretensions, she is woefully misinformed. In the last week or so she has shown that she does not even know that BO's title for his book came from the Reverend Wright. You know, Ican, the reverend Wright, whose church Obama attended for over seven years. BO did not know, imagine, that the Reverend Wright took the position--"God Damn America"

How could the most brilliant president we have ever had in this country miss such a thing/

Debra Law is also basically unread. She compared the Repulican Party to the group in Orwell's 1984. I brought her up short by informing her that George Orwell's great novel was about a system which portrayed ENGLISH SOCIALISM.

She is a fraud, Ican. You did well to let her know that her impression of the "shadows" in the cave is very far off from reality.

Debra L A W wrote that Obama isn't Obrien, Limbaugh/Hannity/Bush/Cheney are Obrien and Ican is Winston.

When I taught English Literature, I would have flunked Debra L AW. I am sure that Debra L A W never read "1984" or if she did she only read the comic book version.

Let's look at the facts:

l. O"Brien is in charge of the country of Oceania

. Limbaugh/Hannity/Bush/ Cheney are not.

2. Ican cannot possible be Winston. Winston was never able to write his opinions on a venue such as this which is visible to all.

3. Again, Debra L A W apparently does not know that Oceania is Socialistic.

I am certain that even Debra L A W, who consistently tortures logic would say that Limbaugh/Hannity/Bush or Cheney are SOCIALISTS>

But, let us quote directly from "1984"

quote P. 303

NEWSPEAK was the official language of Oceania,a nd had been devised to meet the IDEOLOGICAL NEEDS of INSOC, or ENGLISH SOCIALISM.

4. Debra L A W got the slogans wrong-----

The slogans in "1984" had nothing to do with Torture, Change or Greed. They were much much closer to the idiocies of Barack Hussein Obama.

One at a time--

WAR IS PEACE-

Not only is Obama leaving troops in Iraq for years, he is sending many more troops to AFGHANISTAN.

Because he is a flim-flam artist and can talk on all three sides of an issue at the same time, some do not realize that he will eventually have more troops at risk in Iraq and Afghanistan that the previous administration did.

second

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

Obama has taken freedom away from financial institutions, automobile manufacturers, Americans competing with illegal Aliens for jobs, and most American entreprenuers. Obama thinks that Americans are in favor of slavery.

third

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Obama campaigned on transparency. His policies are not at all transparent.

He refuses to give evidence that Los Angeles was threatened by AlQueda.

He refuses to tell the American People EXACTLY what will be done with
scores of dangerous inmates from Gitmo.

He refuses to tell the American people why he is going back on his pledge to compel industries which will fall under the disasterous " cap and trade' proposals to pay for emissions.

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Debra L A W had better read "1984" again! She certainly did not understand it the first time she read it--If she ever did.

P. 207--OBrien speaking to Winston--

"Collectively, the Party owns everything in Oceania because it controls everything and disposes of the products as it thinks fit"( What has Obama done to the banks and automobile industry??)

Again- OBrien to Winston--

"It has always been assumed that if the capitalist class were expropriated, Socialism must follow; and unquestionably the capitalist class has been expropriated. Factories, mines, land, houses, transport, everything had been taken away from them"

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Ican--Only someone like Debra L A W can refer to "1984" and suggest that it is not about S O C I A L I S M" and, of course, many people know that Obama is a Socialist.

People around Chicago know that Obama was a community organizer. People around Chicago know that his mentors, his bosses, his advisors, when he was a community organizers were full blown disciples of SAUL ALINSKY.

Anyone who has ever read Saul Alinsky knows he was a doctrinaire SOCIALIST!