@DontTreadOnMe,
Quote:sorry, you don't get to do that;
Sure I do if you get to judge pro-lifers because they aren't adopting all the unwanted children who are born.
Quote:a) i'm not the one that is forcing anyone else to do anything they don't wish to do.
Nor is anybody else in this case.
Quote:b) you have no way of knowing what i do or don't do for anyone else. so don't get snippy and assume you do.
I won't assume if you won't. You did so I just went with your example there. But if you've read my posts for any time, you will see that I do not presume to judge what is in the heart or mind of others nor presume to judge their behavior that I have not observed. It's just that its only fair that it be a two-way street. Those who judge others deserve to be judged.
Quote:c) anything done by me for some of the people you mention, i would do because i chose to. not to gain sainthood.
But you assume the motives of others is different? On what basis?
Quote:d) and in that light, i am not going to tell you what, if anything i've done or do in this area. it does not have anything to do with the abortion issue.
I didn't expect you to and I didn't ask you to.
Quote:then why did you bring up the orphanages at all. we are talking about newborns delivered by a mother who did not choose to do so, remember?
Because you insisted that if I was prolife I was obligated to adopt that newborn. That is about as logical as me assuming that if you are prochoice you are obligated to pay for the abortion of any woman who cannot afford that.
Quote:if you want to speak to a pregnant woman in an unthreatening, nonaggressive way, and without physically hampering her from continuing towards abortion, i have no problem with you doing so.
information and philosophy are one thing. physical restraint and deterrence are something else.
Which has absolutely nothing at all to do with the point I was making.
Quote:also, i would like you go back and take notice that in the places i have criticized, i have used the term "strict pro-lifer". i define a strict pro-lifer as a person who would deny a woman an abortion under any and all circumstances; including the one where the woman would die from the pregnancy's continuance.
if the woman was my wife, woe unto he who would try to force her to her death via their religious beliefs.
from what you say, i do not consider you a strict pro-lifer.
Thank you, yet you criticize or question my motives or point of view just the same.
This is a thread on Modern American Conservatism (MAC or Classical Liberalism) that does put a heavy emphasis on the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Until the last few decades--until Roe v Wade was decided in fact--the concept of the unborn being a person was pretty solidly entrenched in American values.
Even Roe v Wade was a well crafted and exquisitely worded compromise in this difficult debate--the state would assume no interest in the unborn for the first trimester, increased interest in the second trimester, and a great deal of interest in the third trimester. That concept has been pretty well stripped since in rulings of lower courts that have pushed abortion right up to the point that all but the crown of the baby's head remains in the birth canal. And subsequent laws/rulings that if the baby was intended to be aborted but lived, it could be allowed to die with impunity. Since Roe v Wade, the issue of abortion has not been tested in the high court. Certainly the justices that decided Roe v Wade would not have agreed that partial birth abortion or neglecting a born baby to death was included in their decision.
I do not judge what is the motive or in the heart and mind of others, but I judge actions as good or bad, positive or negative, useful or destructive. I can accept the intentional taking of a human life can at times be necessary however much of a tragedy it might be. I can accept that the accidental loss of life is even more tragic but is sometimes unpreventable.
I cannot accept that taking the life of the unborn child is justifiable by any normal standards of decency or respect for life for any reason other than the child has no chance for any quality of life or the pregnancy poses significant risk to the mother. And I do believe that we need to speak out on behalf of the unborn children who did not ask to be conceived and who had no control over that and who have no voice by which to appeal their right to life.
At the same time I do not presume to judge the rape or incest victim or others who must make heart wrenching difficult choices and leave that up to them, their doctor, and perhaps their God.
