55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 12:49 pm
Will John and Megan McCain join Bennedict Arlen in becoming Dems? Rush thinks they should. Why not!

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/04/28/rush-limbaugh-on-arlen-specter-take-john-and-meghan-mccain-with/
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 12:52 pm
@Woiyo9,
You haven't demonstrated that you know what you're talking about. The republican obstructionists are on record that they opposed the appointment because the appointee did not pass the anti-Roe v. Wade litmus test. It escapes your comprehension that being an devout oppressor of individual rights is not a prerequisite for holding public office.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 12:58 pm
@old europe,
Fair enough, though Rachel Maddow and MSNBC don't exactly have a stellar reputation on objectivity and get big points for partisanship, but certainly their opinion should be included. (Even though even though their ratings are in the toilet and it is rumored that they are under orders by their parent corporation (G.E.) to not criticize President Obama because G.E. stands to benefit by many billions through President Obama's proposed cap and trade initiative.)

What Rachel leaves out in this Youtube clip, however, is how bipartisan repeal of Glass-Steagall was and how much President Clinton wanted it. I think that is pretty pertinent when we analyze how it all happened. Don't you?

The final bill. . . . was passed in the Senate 90-8 (1 not voting) and in the House: 362-57. Few bills passed by Congress are more bipartisan than that.

There is a difference between predicting a financial meltdown and predicting the precise time/date(s) that it will happen. And that is why President Obama, President Bush, President Clinton, and others speaking on behalf of their administrations including Greenspan, Bernanke, and those touted as economics wizards such as Forbes and Krugman almost all admitted they didn't see it coming.

Just to keep things in proper perspective.

Quote:
Where Are They Now, the 8 that Voted Against the Repeal of Glass-Steagall??
Wed Apr 1, 2009

While there are many threads to the torn fabric that led to the implosion of our banking system and the stock market collapse, one of the major reasons was the repeal of the Glass-Steagall regulations with the passage of the 1999 bill called the Gramm-Leach-Bliley bill.

There was plenty of debate about this bill inside Congress and even more debate outside the hallowed halls. But in the end, only eight of our senators voted against Gramm-Leach-Bliley:

The esteemed Sen. Barbara Boxer of California.
Nevada's Sen. Richard Bryan.
Sen. Byron Dorgan of North Dakota.
Wisconsin's renegade 'progressive patriot', Sen. Russ Feingold.
Iowa's onetime candidate for president, Sen. Tom Harkin.
Sen. Barbara Mikulski of Maryland.
The lone Republican, Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama.
The late Paul Wellstone of Minnesota.

While they have had the satisfaction of being right, they were not called upon to serve in the new Democratic administration. Why is that?

By contrast, one of those who was most vocal and passionate about supporting the Gramm bill was Lawrence Summers, onetime Treasury Secretary under Bill Clinton. He said upon passage of the bill:

"Today Congress voted to update the rules that have governed financial services since the Great Depression and replace them with a system for the 21st century. This historic legislation will better enable American companies to compete in the new economy. *"

Good thing that guy Summers does not dare show his face around anymore. Wait, no, isn't he the new director of the White House National Economic Council. I wonder how he got that job, and what is on his agenda nowadays.

You would think that with all those promises of change, that the prescient senators would have been rewarded for their common sense and financial sagacity with nice new jobs with the Obama administration. Not yet, anyway.

* Labaton, Stephen, Congress Passes Wide-Ranging Bill Easing Bank Laws, the New York Times, Nov. 5, 1999, http://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/05/business/congress-passes-wide-ranging-bill-easing-bank-laws.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
http://minnieapolis.newsvine.com/_news/2009/04/01/2629443-where-are-they-now-the-8-that-voted-against-the-repeal-of-glass-steagall
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 01:04 pm
On news ratings, I am posting this just to annoy the leftwingers on the thread Smile (The rightwingers already know it.)

Quote:
Tuesday, Apr 28
April Ratings: FNC Beats CNN and MSNBC Combined

How's this for cable news domination - Fox News beat CNN and MSNBC combined in every hour from 6amET to MidnightET in both Total Viewers and the A25-54 demo for April 2009.

FNC had the top 11 cable news programs in Total Viewers and 12 of the top 15 in the demo. FNC is the #2 network in Total Viewers on all of cable.

From 9amET on, every program grew by more than 60% in the demo. The 5pmET hour, now occupied by Glenn Beck, is up 212% in the demo and up 128% in Total Viewers. Your World with Neil Cavuto is up 102% in the demo and up 60% in Total Viewers. On the Record with Greta Van Susteren is up 75% in demo and up 55% in Total Viewers. Also in demo: FOX Report is up 75%, Special Report 70%, The O'Reilly Factor 74% and Hannity 64%.

Fox & Friends has now been #1 for 90 consecutive months, Studio B with Shepard Smith for 80 consecutive months.
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/april_ratings_fnc_beats_cnn_and_msnbc_combined_115179.asp


It appears that President Obama and an out-of-control government is the best thing that ever happened to Fox News and conservative talk radio. Smile
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 01:12 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Fair enough, though Rachel Maddow and MSNBC don't exactly have a stellar reputation on objectivity and get big points for partisanship, but certainly their opinion should be included.


She interviewed Senator Dorgan who opposed deregulation and repeatedly warned of the dire consequences 10 years ago. Dorgan's long-term position on deregulation is a matter of public record.

Foxfyre wrote:
What Rachel leaves out in this Youtube clip, however, is how bipartisan repeal of Glass-Steagall was and how much President Clinton wanted it. I think that is pretty pertinent when we analyze how it all happened. Don't you?


You're incorrect. If you watched the Youtube clip, then you would know that Dorgan stressed the fact that only 8 senators voted against the repeal of regulatory protections. How does the fact that the Republican sponsors obtained bipartisan support of the bill in 1999 affect the analysis that deregulation was WRONG?
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 01:17 pm
@Foxfyre,
I'm not sure how this is going to annoy anyone Fox.

Half of the US likes Apples, and half like Oranges. If there are many Apple orchards and only one Orange grove, of course the orange grove is going to out sell any individual apple orchard, or for that matter many combined. Different markets, with different demands.

Fox news having greater ratings than the other news outlet is not a sign that they are a more relevant news source. I'm sure if the other new channels were to start doing more coverage of things like the MVPs of the Lingerie Bowl, Fox news might take a ratings hit. They'd finally have some competitions in their market. As it stands however, they aren't in my mind really competing with the other news outlets.

Their objective is completely different.
K
O
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 01:17 pm
@Debra Law,
Foxie wrote:
Quote:
Fair enough, though Rachel Maddow and MSNBC don't exactly have a stellar reputation on objectivity and get big points for partisanship, but certainly their opinion should be included.


Of coarse Rachel Maddow is partisan; nobody claims she isn't. The real issue is about the topic she covers, and whether they are correct or wrong. That's the basis on which you can criticize her or any tv personality.

Now, show us where she's not "objective?"
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 01:22 pm
@Foxfyre,
Alternatively, Fox News ratings and self identification as Republicans amongst the general population are inversely proportional.
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 02:06 pm
@old europe,
old europe wrote:

Alternatively, Fox News ratings and self identification as Republicans amongst the general population are inversely proportional.


I disagree that there is 'self-identification as "Republican"' at Fox News. Certainly they offer a conservative point of view on their commentary/magazine shows (O'Reilly, Hannity, Beck) but Van Sustern and Geraldo are pretty mainstream or even a bit left of center and Cavuto does economics. I do think Fox does the very best of ANY news outlet, cable or network, to present all sides of the news as fairly and objectively as possible.

Quote:
Media Bias Is Real, Finds UCLA Political Scientist



Quote:
April 27, 2009
COLLEEN O’BOYLE and TIM SCHEIDERER

Bozell: "The Media and Obama: 100 Days and Still Madly in Love"

Alexandria, VA " President Barack Obama has put forward policies representing the most radical government intervention in the free market in American history, with more proposals for even greater government interference on the way. But according to the Media Research Center (MRC), DURING Obama’s first 100 days in office the media have steadfastly refused to report this. In fact, rather than challenging the President’s radical policies, network news reporters have often celebrated Obama’s radical agenda.

MRC analysts examined all 852 stories on the Obama administration from January 20 through April 15 on ABC’s World News, the CBS Evening News and the NBC Nightly News. We will publish a detailed report on coverage of Obama’s first 100 days (ending April 29) in May. The trends, however, are evident.

Among the key findings thus far:

Sanitizing Obama’s Socialist Agenda. None of the three broadcast network aired a single story focused on whether President Obama’s economic policies were driving the U.S. towards European-style socialism. Not a single network news reporter used the term “socialist” to describe how Obama’s policies are shifting economic authority to the federal government, away from the free market. On only four occasions was the word “socialist” used on-camera at all " all by outside sources, once by a random man-on-the-street.

Obama is not a “Liberal,” Either. Amazingly, network reporters never called Obama or his agenda even “liberal.” NBC and CBS never used the word, and ABC only aired the term twice, citing Republicans using the word “liberal” to describe Obama’s policies.

No Conservatives Allowed. On three of Obama’s major economic policies and plans - his banking bailout, his auto bailout and his plans for universal health care - the networks never had a single sound bite from a conservative or a free market expert.

One out of four bank bailout stories (17 of 74) discussed the concept of outright government bank nationalization. In only two was a free market person allowed to rebut.
http://mrc.org/press/2009/press20090427.asp


Earlier today I was listening to an interview--I forget the name--with a person who was commenting on the fact that President Obama's approval rating remain high even as most Americans appose essentially of his policies, both enacted and those proposed. Her opinion was that it is difficult for us to lose faith in our heroes because we so much want to believe in them. It is emotionally wrenching to give up hope and therefore we avoid that as long as possible. We resist believing that we were wrong.

I think she is right.

I think we have an equally difficult time admitting our prejudices for much of the same reason.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 02:10 pm
@Foxfyre,
They had to do a study to learn that most news organizations leans left? LOL
All they needed to do was read "Bias" by Bernie Goldberg who is a liberal. It tells the real inside story about liberal bias in the news.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 03:30 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
I disagree that there is 'self-identification as "Republican"' at Fox News.


I don't think I said what you think I said.


Foxfyre wrote:
Earlier today I was listening to an interview--I forget the name--with a person who was commenting on the fact that President Obama's approval rating remain high even as most Americans appose essentially of his policies, both enacted and those proposed.


I'd say that's a selection bias. If you're strongly opposed to the Obama administration, you're more likely to seek out news sources that tend to report poll results that are unfavourable for Obama, and you're more likely to ignore highly favourable polls. As a result, you're faced with the conundrum of having to explain the discrepancy between the perceived universal opposition to Obama's policies and the high favourables in the job approval polls.

The same's certainly true if you strongly support Obama. You're probably more likely to notice polls like the one that shows that 66% of Americans say they approve of how the Obama administration is handling the ongoing swine flu situation, the one that shows that 51% of Americans in are favour and only 42% opposed to an investigation into the torture issue, the poll that shows that 66% say that Obama is trying to work with the Republicans whereas only 38% of Americans believe that Republicans in Congress are making a sincere effort of bipartisanship, the poll showing that a majority of Americans support Obama's policy of improving US relations with Cuba, including 64% who favour making it easier to travel there or the recent poll that showed that, with the Democrats having a majority in Congress, the job approval ratings for Congress hit a four year high.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 04:03 pm
@Foxfyre,
It is an interesting concept of how they factored their bias in that study Fox.

They took the positions of Congress and used the middle vote as the middle voter. The study was done at the time Congress was controlled by the GOP. If the same study was done today, I suspect the opposite view would be the result.

Would you accept a study Fox that says the middle ground politically is based on the average political position of the current Congress? Would you believe that the current Congress leans left or are you willing to accept that Congress as a whole is neutral politically?

I would suggest that the study as done was flawed in that it ignores several factors.
1. Congress isn't necessarily the bellweather of the political landscape.
2. The Senate is elected every 6 years so can be behind the electorate if it changes over 4-6 years.

When we look at the 2004 figures from ADA compared to the 2008 we see some pretty drastic swings
In the House 2004 when there were more Republicans -
Republicans averaged 10.5%
Democrats averaged 85%
In the House in 2008 when there were more Democrats
Republicans averaged 22%
Democrats averaged 89%.
This would mean that the electorate has swung about 17 points overall from conservative to liberal.
The Senate has stayed about the same number per party but the shift in 8 democratic Senators would still shift the numbers by several points
89.6-19.6 in 2004
90 - 20 in 2008
That means the Senate has moved almost 10 points to the left.

I would love to see a new study done with the new political makeup. I bet they get much different findings compared to the last one.
parados
 
  3  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 04:09 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
Earlier today I was listening to an interview--I forget the name--with a person who was commenting on the fact that President Obama's approval rating remain high even as most Americans appose essentially of his policies, both enacted and those proposed. Her opinion was that it is difficult for us to lose faith in our heroes because we so much want to believe in them. It is emotionally wrenching to give up hope and therefore we avoid that as long as possible. We resist believing that we were wrong.


I guess that is the perfect explanation why some on here are defending Bush's torture policies.

It also explains those that still think WMD were found in Iraq.

And explains the claim I saw earlier today that Iraq was involved in 9/11.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 04:17 pm
@Debra Law,
Quote:
A woman's right to do so is legal and secured by the Constitution.


Then you should be able to point to the EXACT clause that references abortion and show it to all of us.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 04:20 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Twice as much debt is NOT 4 times or 3.4 times as much. Ican is posting bull **** and the article you posted confirms it.


Whether its twice as much or 4 times as much is not really important.
Obama campaigned and was elected partly on a promise to cut the debt in half, not increase it.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 04:22 pm
@mysteryman,
Ah.. accuracy isn't important. It's whether you can attack Obama.


As long as the statements are used to attack Obama, the accuracy doesn't matter. Rolling Eyes
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 04:27 pm
@parados,
Are you saying that Obama DIDNT promise to halve the deficit?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 04:35 pm
@mysteryman,
Have you got a link to the timeline of that halving?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 04:38 pm
@mysteryman,
ahh, found it at Newsmax - 2012

given what happened in 2008, anything can happen between now and 2012

mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 04:49 pm
@ehBeth,
so are you already giving him a pass if he doesnt do what he said he would?
0 Replies
 
 

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