55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2009 08:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Cice, your "One sample of the racist tea party signs" is not a racist sign.
The question regarding where BHO was born relates only to the constitutional requirement that a president be born in the USA. This question would arise regardless of skin color if a president were found to be born in any other country but the USA. An allegation has been made that BHO was not born in the USA. This allegation has not been proven true.

Quote:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
Article II
...
Section 1.
...
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.
...


0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2009 08:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Cice, check with my source. The costs of the wars are included in the numbers I posted. From that same source you can obtain both "on budget" and "off budget" subtotals if you like.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2009 08:47 pm
@ican711nm,
Hey.. ican..

For someone that calls others simpletons, you seem to have some pretty major problems with math and reading.

The budget total is 2010-2019. It pretty clearly states that over the 6969 figure.
Perhaps if you read the budget before you commented you might not make all the mistakes you make.

I am still curious why you keep using 12 years of Obama's budget to compare to 8 years of Bush. Do you really expect Obama to be President for 12 years? Or are you 1000 on you simpleton scale?

cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2009 08:57 pm
@okie,
okie, You're such an ignoramus, it's not surprising you still haven't seen all the confirmed/verified reports that Obama was born in Hawaii. FYI, that's also in the US. Your ignorance is universal.

From FactCheck:
Quote:
Born in the U.S.A.
August 21, 2008
Updated: November 1, 2008
The truth about Obama's birth certificate.
Summary
In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2009 09:04 pm
@parados,
Re: parados (Post 3630085)

The BHO (i.e., Barach H. Obama) projected deficits for 2018 and 2019 are carry-overs from the preceding BHO budgets. So BHO will have caused them too, regardless of who follows him.

BHO BUDGET DEFICIT PROJECTIONS
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/assets/fy2010_new_era/Summary_Tables2.pdf
(Table S-1. Budget Totals; in billions of dollars and as a % of GPD)
2008 459
2009 1752
2010 1171
2011 912
2012 581
2013 583
2014 570
2015 583 MYTOTAL........BHO'sTOTAL
2016 637 2009-17............2009-17
2017 636 6789..................6969
2018 634
2019 712
TOTAL BHO's DEFICIT 2008-19 = 9230....2009-17 = 6789
TOTAL GWB'S DEFICIT 2001-08 = .. 1962................1962
BHO's DEFICIT TOTAL/GWB's DEFICIT TOTAL = 4.70.......3.46

On the Simpleton Scale, 0 to 100, where GWB is a 10, BHO is WORSE, and is either a 34.6, or a 47.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2009 09:17 pm
@ican711nm,
Oh.. so then the deficits this year and next are simply carryovers from Bush and he caused them. OK.. I can deal with that.

Repeating your failure to read Table S-1 correctly only makes you look like an even bigger fool ican.
Read the last 2 numbers on the top line of Table S-1

Let me quote it for you and HIGHLIGHT them.
Quote:
2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2010-2014 2010-2019
The 6969 figure is clearly for 2010-2019.

I am curious why you include 2008 in Obama's numbers when you include them in Bush's. Are you really this much of an idiot? Are you saying you think Obama caused the 2008 deficit? How do you think he did that? Please explain your thinking of lack thereof.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2009 10:02 pm
@parados,
You're trying to have an intelligent discussion with one of the worst fools on a2k. All he knows how to do is regurgitate numbers without knowing what they represent. All ican offers is frustration, because he is unable to analyze and describe what he's writing about by copy and paste - which only contradicts what he really means.

okie falls in the same league as ican.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2009 11:31 pm
Seems like it wasn't more than a few weeks ago that the Obama disciples were defending his breaking his promise to eliminate earmarks. Remember those 9000 earmarks in the last appropriations bill? Oh that was from the prior year budget they said so it didn't count. And those 9000 earmarks only added up to a handful of billions which is a drop in the bucket and not worth worrying about. And there were lots of GOP earmarks in there too; therefore that made it legal.

And if the previous administration attempted to reduce spending anywhere, the hue and cry was immediate and loud: taking food out of the mouths of children; denying healthcare to the dying; disrespecting our veterans; throwing old folks out in the street. . . .yadda yadda. . . .

Okay now we have the President magnanimously ordering his cabinet members to cut an aggregate $100 million from their budgets and this is being spun as the greatest and most amazing and most magnificent austerity program ever initated by a public figure ever. Truly the messiah has come. . . .

Folks....THAT kind of stuff is what those tea parties were all about. Our elected leaders long ago lost any sense of fiscal responsibility, accountability, or practicality and now think of spendng billions as pocket change. And they do truly believe all of us are fools and don't see it for what it is.

MACs are all for the government exercising discipline and fiscal responsibility with the tax dollars we contribute to it, but they are properly offended when our elected leaders insult our intelligence. And kudos to the AP for finally doing some homework and telling it like it is.

Quote:
SPIN METER: Saving federal money the easy way
SPIN METER: Obama's latest budget-tightening effort hardly makes a dime's worth of difference
Andrew Taylor and Calvin Woodward, Associated Press Writers
Monday April 20, 2009, 6:30 pm EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Cut a latte or two out of your annual budget and you've just done as much belt-tightening as President Barack Obama asked of his Cabinet on Monday.

The thrifty measures Obama ordered for federal agencies are the equivalent of asking a family that spends $60,000 in a year to save $6.

Obama made his push for frugality the subject of his first Cabinet meeting, ensuring it would command the capital's attention. It also set off outbursts of mental math and scribbled calculations as political friend and foe tried to figure out its impact.

The bottom line: Not much.

The president gave his Cabinet 90 days to find $100 million in savings to achieve over time.

For all the trumpeting, the effort raised questions about why Obama set the bar so low, considering that $100 million amounts to:

--Less than one-quarter of the budget increase that Congress awarded to itself.

--4 percent of the military aid the United States sends to Israel.

--Less than half the cost of one F-22 fighter plane.

--7 percent of the federal subsidy for the money-losing Amtrak passenger rail system.

--1/10,000th of the government's operating budgets for Cabinet agencies, excluding the Iraq and Afghan wars and the stimulus bill.

Obama only asked his Cabinet secretaries to identify waste in their annual operating budgets, which total a little over $1 trillion. He's leaving out war costs, the economic stimulus measure, the Wall Street bailout and benefit programs like Social Security and Medicare.

THE SPIN:

"He will challenge his Cabinet to cut a collective $100 million in the next 90 days," said a White House news release. "Agencies will be required to report back with their savings at the end of 90 days."

"I'm asking for all of them to identify at least $100 million in additional cuts to their administrative budgets," Obama told reporters afterward. "None of these things alone are going to make a difference, but cumulatively, they would make an extraordinary difference because they start setting a tone."

THE FULLER STORY:

Obama's marching orders to the Cabinet on Monday were less than meets the eye. Many of the savings he asked them to achieve are already under way and are included in the calculation.

To be sure, this is an extra effort, on top of an agency-by-agency review of programs and proposed multibillion-dollar cuts in weapons programs. But it is decidedly marginal.

"It's always a good sign when the president is talking about savings," said Marc Goldwein, policy director of the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a nonpartisan group that advocates fiscal discipline.

"It's valuable as a symbol," he said, "but $100 million is just not going to cut it."

White House press secretary Robert Gibbs defended the $100 million target, saying it's not the full extent of Obama's cost-cutting efforts. He called it "a short-term goal ... to identify further administrative savings" and added: "$100 million may not be a lot to people in this town, but I think it's a lot to people who live in this country."

Republicans were quick to point out that borrowing costs for February's stimulus package will on average cost almost $100 million a day over the next decade.

In large measure, the examples of economizing given by the White House were of the painless, seemingly commonsensical variety. They were not the program cuts that people feel and that budget-watchers say are essential to make a meaningful difference in the exploding deficit.

Some of them will take many years to play out.

The Agriculture Department, for one, will move 1,500 employees from seven leased locations into one place in early 2011, saving $62 million over 15 years.

Some are hard to quantify.

Will buying multipurpose office equipment, such as a combined copier, printer, fax and scanner all in a single unit instead of separate units, really save the Homeland Security Department $2 million a year over five years?

Some are microscopic. The White House estimates savings of tens of thousands of dollars from freeing up warehouse space stashed with obsolete equipment that had been used by a federal entity few people have heard of, the Bureau of Information Resource Management.

And some raise eyebrows at wasteful practices of the former administration.

The White House says Homeland Security, the third largest federal department, has not been buying most of its $100 million a year in office supplies in bulk.

The administration thinks it can save $52 million over five years with bulk-buying bargains at the department.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/SPIN-METER-Saving-federal-apf-14976290.html?.v=1
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 08:21 am
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
Seems like it wasn't more than a few weeks ago that the Obama disciples were defending his breaking his promise to eliminate earmarks.


Obama didn't promise to eliminate all earmarks, Fox. McCain was the one who did. I have no idea why you right-wingers can't keep this straight!

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 08:38 am
@Cycloptichorn,
He did promise: "And, absolutely, we need earmark reform. And when I'm president, I will go line by line to make sure that we are not spending money unwisely."

But when it came time to do that, he reneged on that promise based on his opinion that the appropriations bill was 'last year's business' regardless of the fact that it was this year's Congress who put it together and he who signed it.

But why pluck one statement out of the whole as somehow the only significant thing said? There's a lot of stuff there. Why that one line? Of course you are one of the ones who was saying that the $8 billion in earmarks was a tiny portion of the expenditures and not worth spending time worrying about. It's that kind of mentality I am complaining about.

As the venerable Senator Everitt Dirksen once said: "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you’re talking teal money."
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 08:44 am
@Foxfyre,
Why not give Obama's full comments on the bill he signed?

Quote:
Now, yesterday Congress sent me the final part of last year's budget; a piece of legislation that rolls nine bills required to keep the government running into one, a piece of legislation that addresses the immediate concerns of the American people by making needed investments in line with our urgent national priorities.

That's what nearly 99 percent of this legislation does -- the nearly 99 percent that you probably haven't heard much about.

What you likely have heard about is that this bill does include earmarks. Now, let me be clear: Done right, earmarks have given legislators the opportunity to direct federal money to worthy projects that benefit people in their districts, and that's why I've opposed their outright elimination. And I also find it ironic that some of those who rail most loudly against this bill because of earmarks actually inserted earmarks of their own -- and will tout them in their own states and their own districts.

But the fact is that on occasion, earmarks have been used as a vehicle for waste, and fraud, and abuse. Projects have been inserted at the 11th hour, without review, and sometimes without merit, in order to satisfy the political or personal agendas of a given legislator, rather than the public interest. There are times where earmarks may be good on their own, but in the context of a tight budget might not be our highest priority. So these practices hit their peak in the middle of this decade, when the number of earmarks had ballooned to more than 16,000, and played a part in a series of corruption cases.

In 2007, the new Democratic leadership in Congress began to address these abuses with a series of reforms that I was proud to have helped to write. We eliminated anonymous earmarks and created new measures of transparency in the process, so Americans can better follow how their tax dollars are being spent. These measures were combined with the most sweeping ethics reforms since Watergate. We banned gifts and meals and made sure that lobbyists have to disclose who they're raising campaign money from, and who in Congress they send it to. So we've made progress. But let's face it, we have to do more.

I am signing an imperfect omnibus bill because it's necessary for the ongoing functions of government, and we have a lot more work to do. We can't have Congress bogged down at this critical juncture in our economic recovery. But I also view this as a departure point for more far-reaching change.


Obama didn't promise to eliminate earmarks and he has defended their right to exist. You were wrong when you said he promised to get rid of them.

As the line-item veto doesn't exist, what is Obama supposed to do; veto the bill, during a time when we're pushing spending to fight the recession? You aren't being very realistic here. Naturally, this is the consequence of trying to score political points instead of putting serious thought into the reality of the situation.

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 09:03 am
@Cycloptichorn,
He has repeatedly promise to get rid of those that were unnecessary and irresponsible. In your own post he said:

Quote:
"I am signing an imperfect omnibus bill because it's necessary for the ongoing functions of government, and we have a lot more work to do. We can't have Congress bogged down at this critical juncture in our economic recovery. But I also view this as a departure point for more far-reaching change."


Yes the omnibus bill was necessary, but where was ANY effort on his part to ask Congress to remove the 'unnecessary' and 'most offensive' spending initiatives in it? He admitted that they added on a lot of 11th hour stuff before they passed it. But you can find nary a syllable where he protested that or asked them to take that stuff back out.

So where's the change? An aggregate $100 million out of the cabinet budgets that, as my post illustrated, they won't even notice? Do you think the cabinet budgets won't be bigger in the Obama administration? He keeps adding Tsars for this and that--people who will be de facto cabinet members without having to go through the confirmation process. Does anybody think each one of these is not handed a handsome slice of the budget to work with? Does the $100 million "reductions" in cabinet budgets compensate for those?

The last I read, Obama is a regular job creation machine adding people to the government work force by the gross. He has 160 people working in the West Wing compared to George Bush's 60 and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

This is NOT a diatribe against President Barack Obama perse, but purely an illustration of the kind of government growth and fiscal irresponsibility that those tea parties were addressing. It doesn't matter that the Obama administration is not the only fiscally irresponsible government we've had, but the degree to which that is escalating should be terrifying to anybody with common sense.

I know some of you younger people hate looking back or taking note of principles that applied many years ago. But at some point, all of us have to begin speaking up and saying enough or the government will swallow us all whole and we will no longer be the Republic that our Founders put together for us.
old europe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 09:07 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
Yes the omnibus bill was necessary, but where was ANY effort on his part to ask Congress to remove the 'unnecessary' and 'most offensive' spending initiatives in it? He admitted that they added on a lot of 11th hour stuff before they passed it.


I don't think he said what you think he said....
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 09:14 am
@old europe,
He made these remarks in a discussion of that omnibus bill. You can weasel around it by saying his remarks weren't specifically addressing THAT bill, but it was THAT bill he was talking about when he made the remarks.

Quote:
Earmarks, individual appropriation items slipped into spending bills by members of Congress " usually without debate or oversight " have been the subject of corruption scandals over the years and debate regarding fiscal responsibility. The bill signed into law by President Obama contains 8,570 earmarks estimated to cost $7.7 billion, according to the non-partisan Taxpayers for Common Sense.

In his remarks, Obama said that, “Done right, earmarks have given legislators the opportunity to direct federal money to worthy projects that benefit people in their districts, and that’s why I’ve opposed their outright elimination.

“But the fact is that, on occasion, earmarks have been used as a vehicle for waste and fraud and abuse,” he said. “Projects have been inserted at the 11th hour, without review, and sometimes without merit, in order to satisfy the political or personal agendas of a given legislator, rather than the public interest.”
http://www.cnsnews.com/Public/Content/Article.aspx?rsrcid=44902


And he further said:
"I am signing an imperfect omnibus bill because it's necessary for the ongoing functions of government, and we have a lot more work to do. We can't have Congress bogged down at this critical juncture in our economic recovery. But I also view this as a departure point for more far-reaching change."

So you make the call. If this had been George Bush, how would you have interpreted this?

Do you believe people who say this is wrong and we won't do it any more when the evidence is that they just keep right on doing it? It isn't just President Obama. It's the whole slick, slimy bunch who no longer represent us but who are reinforcing and expanding their own power.

And it was THAT which inspired those tea parties however much you want to make them into something else.
old europe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 09:23 am
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
But the fact is that on occasion, earmarks have been used as a vehicle for waste, and fraud, and abuse. Projects have been inserted at the 11th hour, without review, and sometimes without merit, in order to satisfy the political or personal agendas of a given legislator, rather than the public interest. There are times where earmarks may be good on their own, but in the context of a tight budget might not be our highest priority. So these practices hit their peak in the middle of this decade, when the number of earmarks had ballooned to more than 16,000, and played a part in a series of corruption cases.


Foxfyre wrote:
Yes the omnibus bill was necessary, but where was ANY effort on his part to ask Congress to remove the 'unnecessary' and 'most offensive' spending initiatives in it? He admitted that they added on a lot of 11th hour stuff before they passed it.


Seems like he was making a general statement about earmarks.

Foxfyre wrote:
You can weasel around it by saying his remarks weren't specifically addressing THAT bill, but it was THAT bill he was talking about when he made the remarks.


I don't think he was talking about this specific bill when he referred to practices that hit their peak in the middle of this decade.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 09:29 am
@old europe,
Fine. I listened to the comments in real time and have subsequently revisited them. I am convinced that he made the remarks within the framework of a discussion of the omnibus bill. You're entitled to a different opinion and you are also entitled to select proof texts to detract from the central issue and point being made here.
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 09:34 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
You're entitled to a different opinion


Thank you.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 09:59 am
For this president to act as a moral authority on wasteful spending is akin to a Sumo wrestler acting as an expert on dieting.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 10:00 am
@okie,
And your "moral authority" is?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 10:04 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

For this president to act as a moral authority on wasteful spending is akin to a Sumo wrestler acting as an expert on dieting.


Who would you look to for leadership on this matter?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.13 seconds on 05/06/2025 at 09:49:19