AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

Foxfyre wrote:

As for Wright versus Obama, this definitely falls within the scope of conservative values that reject Marxist and socialist doctrines. If you watch and listen closely, both Wright and Obama preach a liberation theology that is softly rooted in Marxism and embraces socialism to a degree that is alarming to conservatives.

Well, it's commonly known that the encyclicals Rerum Novarum, Quadragesimo Anno, and Centesimus Annus were actually written by Marx, Engels and Lenin and not by Leo XIII, Pius XI and John Paul II.

No clue whatsoever what relevance your comment has to the subject Walter.

Foxfyre wrote:

No clue whatsoever what relevance your comment has to the subject Walter.

Well, that are the most known social encyclicals in the Catholic church - full of communist and socialist ideas, as you call it.

Well, I'm sorry that you are unaware of it, Foxfyre.

I had a long talk with an aquaintance (we went to the same school, he was a friend of my sister) of such recently, the archbishop of Munich, one of the most senior church leaders in Germany, very conservative and a professor for Christian social studies.

He would most probably disagree with you - but 'hell', what could you expect by someone with the name Marx? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Marx)

I believe I am more or less familiar with both.

Foxfyre wrote:

I believe I am more or less familiar with both.

Than you would know it.

He is doing his Yoda impression apparently.

Are you prepared to admit you don't know what you're talking about or will you answer the question?

McGentrix wrote:

He is doing his Yoda impression apparently.

That does seem to be his hit and run pattern lately.

Foxfyre wrote:

Are you prepared to admit you don't know what you're talking about or will you answer the question?

Certainly I'm prepared to do so.

I've just a different opinion. As has one of the leading Catholic [German] theologists in this matter (though my opinion varies from more scientific point of view and better knowledge of the materia, too).

Yoda sure does a whole lot better than that.

Frank Donatelli: [W]hat I think these elections tell us is that it's a real wake up call for members of our party that they're going to have to build their own coalitions. They're going to have to reach out to voters beyond just the Republican base.

Frank Donatelli: I just think it goes to show that Republican candidates need to use the entire electoral season. And we've got about six months left now. To talk to their people. To build coalitions. To reach out beyond the Republican base. And to have their own narrative as to their accomplishments and why people should elect them.

Frank Donatelli: [..] it's fair to say that, in 2008, we start off, just on a generic basis, behind by five or ten points. And so that means we have to run five or ten points better than the other guys.

That's difficult but it's not impossible, by any means. And I like our odds because we have a candidate that's [..] very comfortable running a non- traditional campaign where he puts really interesting coalitions together and wins votes that aren't Republican votes.

Frank Donatelli: [W]hat I would say is that the successful Republicans this time are going to maybe take the basic brand and add their own mix to it. [..] I mean, I don't think the generic brand will do it this time.

Sometimes the generic brand does it for Republicans or Democrats, based on the circumstances. But this time it's a very challenging environment and it's not enough just to kind of go down the litany of issues. I think you've got to be more creative. You've got to reach out. [..]

So, you know, it's kind of like we're a basic black dress. Sometimes it works. But sometimes you've gotta, you know, you've gotta have the accessories to go with it. And we need accessories this time.

CBSNews.com: This is the year to accessorize for Republicans.

Frank Donatelli: First time I've ever talked about shoes in an interview like this.

Frank Donatelli: I think we have to talk maybe more in specifics and not generalities. Try to connect how our policies will make things better for the average American. You know, why we need additional sources of energy. And why we need more energy supply which, in turn, will bring down the price of gas.

Frank Donatelli: But, look, if you're asking me are we going to win large numbers of seats by just connecting the local Democrat to Senator Obama? The answer is no. We have to do more than that.

Frank Donatelli: John McCain is his own man. He has his own style. He has his own way of doing things. He will have his own appointees that will be different in all respects. In terms of policy, he's much tougher, I think, on domestic spending. And would make a much more aggressive effort to rein in federal spending and keep our budget balanced.

He's, I think, a little more aggressive in terms of the environment, favors legislation to rein in greenhouse gases. I think, fighting the war on terror, he favors the current course in Iraq.

Though he lobbied hard for the administration to change a couple of years ago when he thought they were on a different strategy. He has a whole new approach when it comes to marrying community colleges and unemployment insurance and retraining of workers. He has a slightly different approach on health care. He has his own health care plan.

So, you know, he really appreciates what the president has done for our country. And especially in keeping the country safe for six years after so many people felt that we were going to be attacked again after 9/11. I think the president deserves enormous credit for making certain that that didn't happen.

But, nevertheless, Senator McCain is his own man with his own policies. And would bring a distinctly different style, I think, to the Oval Office. It's really not a question of change versus no change. But rather a question about change that works and change that doesn't work.

"Everything.

"First of all, Obama is not running down there. Obama is John McCain's problem. And I think to a certain extent, that's going to be a tough enough campaign as-is. [But] people in Mississippi - or in Louisiana or in Illinois, the three seats we lost - want to know, 'What are you going to do about gas increases? What are you going to do that's going to relate to my life and basically help me, help my kids?'" [..]

Rollins also said it was a mistake for President Bush to inject himself into the presidential race with his inflammatory comments during a speech before the Israeli Knessit (in which he compared Obama's stated intention to talk to anti-democratic world leaders with Nazi appeasers in the 1930s) because it suggests that John McCain is running for Mr. Bush's third term. "If it's the Bush third term, John McCain can't win," he said.

"This president has to realize that he is no longer on the ballot," Rollins added.

And there's this very amusing, to a leftwing reader, full five paragraphs worth of Donatelli basically saying "John McCain IS NOT BUSH. HE IS NOT BUSH. HE IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM BUSH. LOOK HOW DIFFERENT HE IS FROM BUSH. FED UP WITH BUSH? DONT WORRY, SOON AS HE'S OUT WE WON'T BE ANYTHING LIKE HIM ANYMORE. BECAUSE MCCAIN IS DIFFERENT. DIFFERENT FROM BUSH. VERY DIFFERENT FROM BUSH. DID I MENTION HOW DIFFERENT FROM BUSH HE IS?"

I don't think any conservative, Republican or not, thinks that President Bush is running. President Bush has pointed that out on more than one occasion. Which does present the paradox of why almost every single Democrat is running against him instead of on their own ideas for the future of America.

Stafford Smith: US Holding 27,000 in Secret Overseas Prisons; Transporting Prisoners to Iraqi Jails to Avoid Media & Legal Scrutiny

"There is a huge number of [secret prisoners] being held in Iraq, and one of the intriguing aspects of this that doesn't get much reporting is that the US is bringing people into Iraq from elsewhere to hold them there, simply because that keeps [the media and lawyers] away from the prisoners so they can't get any sort of legal rights," reports British attorney Clive Stafford Smith.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/5/19/clive_stafford_smith