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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:07 pm
@ican711nm,
YES! Yesterday, April 15, 2009, TEA Partys occurred all over the USA from New York to California, from Illinois to Texas, from Florida to Washington, from Arizona to Massachusetts. They were each and every one created and run by people who were not officials of any current political party.
Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Tea_Party_protests#History
...
History
A blogger known as "Liberty Belle" called for and organized[20] the first tea party protest of 2009 which took place on February 16 in Seattle, Washington.[21][22] A protest was held in Denver on February 17[23] and a protest in Mesa, Arizona on February 18 brought 500 protesters.[24][25]

By February 19, 2009, in a broadcast from the floor of the Chicago Board of Trade, CNBC market commentator Rick Santelli, criticized the government plan to refinance mortgages as "promoting bad behavior", and raised the possibility of a "Chicago Tea Party".[26][27] In response to Santelli's comments, websites sprung up to organize "Tea Party" protests.[28][29] ChicagoTeaParty.com, registered in August 2008 by Chicago radio producer Zack Christenson, was live within twelve hours.[4] About 10 hours after Santelli's remarks, reTeaParty.com was bought to coordinate Tea Parties scheduled for July 4, and as of March 4, was reported to be receiving 11,000 visitors a day.[4] Bob Basso's portrayal of Thomas Paine on Youtube calling for a Second American Revolution also played a role in spreading the protests.[30]
...
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:14 pm
@Debra Law,
Wow! That is the best quote I have ever seen on A2K. Thanks!
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:16 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Its a matter of how their tax money is being spent, DTOM. It would be nice if you guys would be accurate in what you say.
Go ahead and demagogue the taxpayers that pay for all the crap going on, but it isn't going to work, as taxpayers are not blind to the bureaucrats and the games being played.


it's not demogoguing to point out that a bunch of rich white guys that don't want to pay their taxes have whipped up this tax and social paranoia to benefit themselves.

seriously, i get tired of having to point out that there are relatively few that will see an increase in taxes. +/- 2%. so it's nothing more than self serving when that 2% fires up the 95% that just got a tax break to further there own gain.

people have the right to assemble and to voice their opinion, of course.

but i wish that you would be as eagle eyed about the accuracy of what the tea happy crowd were really goin' off about. and who is really benefiting from their angst.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:19 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
Your observation is 100% accurate, and I applaud you, because your message deflates the lies and innuendos being perpetrated by the conservatives on these threads.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Why should anyone have their taxes raised?

Why is it that anytime a govt needs money they immediately want to raise taxes, and why does the left ALWAYS go along?

Heres a novel idea...lets cut spending.
Lets eliminate the redundant depts and agencies, lets cut congressional pay to equal what the average worker gets, lets totally eliminate all of the perks of being in congress, lets eliminate and outlaw any type of spending that isnt mandated by the constitution, lets stop ALL foreign aid of any type, and lets clean house in DC.

There are to many people in DC whose only job seems to be to wander around and tell each other how important they are.
So lets get rid of those people.
Lets slash every depts budget to the bare minimum, lets demand payment from all foreign countries that owe us money, and if they dont pay we seize their assets in the US.
And when other countries do that to us, we let them.

That way, we wont owe them money, and they wont owe us.
old europe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:33 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
lets demand payment from all foreign countries that owe us money, and if they dont pay we seize their assets in the US.
And when other countries do that to us, we let them.

That way, we wont owe them money, and they wont owe us.


Would China get to transport the Statue of Liberty to Beijing, then?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:41 pm
@old europe,
oe, That's the last thing China will demand. Maybe the Golden Gate Bridge. LOL
Foxfyre
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:44 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

The TEA PARTY I attended yesterday from 6pm to 7:30pm, in Georgetown, Texas had people present from each and every race, gender, ethnic group, and age group.

For evidence you should attend future TEA PARTIES in your area. The pictures you looked at were probably carefully selected by your biased news--propaganda--sources to show only white folks were present.

By the way, it's long past time for you to present persuasive evidence for your allegations. You act like you think that all you have to do is post what you think is true, and then demand that those who disagree provide evidence to support their disagreement. Such behavior on your, and like behaving people's parts, undermines your credibility.


I would guess that roughly a third to a half of those attending in Albuquerque, just judging from those lining Montgomery Blvd, were Hispanic. A smattering of folks who were black or probably Indian though ethnicity isn't always possible to tell just by looking. The short clip on the MSM evening news, however very briefly showed a small group of "Anglo" faces and nothing else.

Dishonest reporting.

I'm guessing your area was treated much the same.
old europe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Heh!

Well, to be fair, mysteryman proposed that all those foreign countries should only be allowed to seize US assets in their countries.

Now here's list of foreign countries that America owns money (raw data from the Treasury website):

http://imgur.com/MXTAQ.gif

I wonder which American assets they could seize. Military bases, maybe? What else?
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:45 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DontTreadOnMe wrote:

okie wrote:

Its a matter of how their tax money is being spent, DTOM. It would be nice if you guys would be accurate in what you say.
Go ahead and demagogue the taxpayers that pay for all the crap going on, but it isn't going to work, as taxpayers are not blind to the bureaucrats and the games being played.


it's not demogoguing to point out that a bunch of rich white guys that don't want to pay their taxes have whipped up this tax and social paranoia to benefit themselves.

So if I am a white guy, and if I was rich, which I am not rich, then I'm a bad person? You don't call that demagoguery, DTOM? If not, I beg to differ. You should be out there thanking rich people, white, red, yellow, or black, regardless of color, because they provide jobs. I am frankly sick of people wanting what somebody else has, if they worked for it, which most of them have, unless you are talking about the Ted Kennedys of the world. And as people point out, lots of colors attended the tea parties, all backgrounds and races.

Quote:
seriously, i get tired of having to point out that there are relatively few that will see an increase in taxes. +/- 2%. so it's nothing more than self serving when that 2% fires up the 95% that just got a tax break to further there own gain.
Again, not accurate, I think it will be more than 2%, plus if you consider a lousy energy policy, and taxing energy companies, oil and gas, you will see utility bills climb, essentially a tax on the poor. And if you tax rich people and businesses, it is a tax on everybody, through the products sold. You are mighty naive, DTOM, if you think this will impact only 2% of the country.

Quote:
people have the right to assemble and to voice their opinion, of course.

but i wish that you would be as eagle eyed about the accuracy of what the tea happy crowd were really goin' off about. and who is really benefiting from their angst.


DTOM, I would love to see photos of the lefties Rent-a-Mobs that they bus all over the country, staged by various organizations and unions. I would stack up the tea party crowd, against any of those. Sure, there may be a few bad apples, but not near like the people running around to march at the drop of a hat. Most of these people are hard working family people that took time off to attend. Demagoguing them does you no good.

By the way, I know I am not in the top 2%, far from it, but I just forked over well over 25% of my net income for taxes, including social security, and it frankly is more than irritating to watch the government bail out people without even providing an accounting of where the money went. And on top of that, the head of the IRS, where we send the money, probably would never have paid tens of thousands of back taxes if Obama had not put him in his cabinet.
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:46 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote
Quote:
"I didn't say he didn't support it or participate in it. But he had nothing to do with organizing it, nothing to do with putting it together. It was truly an internet generated grassroots movement and I am guessing that party affiliation was not especially a factor in who attended.

I am agreeing however that the Albuquerque crowd was probably somewhere between 1000 and 2000 now. The organizers almost certainly exaggerate attendance and the media, including our local Fox affiliate, will almost certainly underestimate the attendance. Our ABC affiliate gave the tea party coverage one quick shot and less than 10 seconds of commentary.

Evenso, adding it all up across the country you do have at least two to three hundred thousand folks documented as being at these things and most likely many fold more like me who didn't attend but who were in complete sympathy with the effort. (I did drive through the protest area along Montgomery Blvd yesterday afternoon though, and the folks stretched a good long distance.....sure looked like more than a 1000 people but I didn't count them.)"


To those who would like us to believe that the tea parties are some evil conservative media driven conspiracy I would ask: "Why are all these people coming to these things? Perhaps they just want to appear on TV. Is Fox TV paying them? Isn't Wednesday a work day?

Yes, this was a grass roots movement but just as liberals here cannot fathom why any American (and their children) wouldn't just be thrilled to pay more in taxes I cannot understand why they can't take these tea party participating people at their word that they think that Obama's vision for our government is wrong.

Fox your point about the iceberg syndrome is well taken but it remains to be seen if this movement has legs. Speaking of legs, though, your earlier duck analogy gives me some hope. If what we are seeing ,RE the tea parties, is the relative calm appearance above the waterline scenario, what level of paddling effort can we perceive below?

How do those here feel about the Fair Tax as opposed to Ican's mentioned Flat tax. I feel the Fair Tax is a consumption tax and might still hurt business but the flat tax seems just fair.

Is Obama's announcement to reduce tax complexity just another one of his "finger in the wind" policies to difuse tea party ire?

JM
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:50 pm
The tea parties are far more of a grass roots movement than the lefties ever do. Most of the time if there are a half dozen whackos on a street corner, the MSM will find them and report that as if it was a major event, when it didn't amount to a hill of beans. This movement is real and it could grow into something very significant, by normal hard working people that hardly ever demonstrated about anything ever before.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:56 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

The tea parties are far more of a grass roots movement than the lefties ever do. Most of the time if there are a half dozen whackos on a street corner, the MSM will find them and report that as if it was a major event, when it didn't amount to a hill of beans. This movement is real and it could grow into something very significant, by normal hard working people that hardly ever demonstrated about anything ever before.


Oh, right. You do realize that large anti-war rallies regularly drew over 500k all by themselves, and the anti-Iraq global protest last year drew over 10 million people?

You guys are infants in the world of protesting, it's quite cute really.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:57 pm
@JamesMorrison,
JamesMorrison wrote:
How do those here feel about the Fair Tax as opposed to Ican's mentioned Flat tax. I feel the Fair Tax is a consumption tax and might still hurt business but the flat tax seems just fair.

JM

Actually, I favor the Fair Tax, but doubt it will ever happen. The Flat Tax won't happen either, simply because it is not progressive. There are too many people that would vote it out, or the politicians that tried it.

I believe one of the biggest assets of the Fair Tax is the liklihood of stimulating business. First of all, no more corporate income tax, and anything sold here would be taxed the same rate by the Fair Tax, a sales tax, thus any foreign supported manufacturer, regardless of situation, even if subsidized by their governments, their products would be equally taxed if sold here. Also, nobody would pay any income tax, the products would be cheaper when they hit the stores, and people would have more money to buy. The main difference is where the money is extracted in the economic stream, production or consumption. I would love to see serious consideration and debate given the Fair Tax.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:59 pm
@JamesMorrison,
Quote:

To those who would like us to believe that the tea parties are some evil conservative media driven conspiracy I would ask: "Why are all these people coming to these things? Perhaps they just want to appear on TV. Is Fox TV paying them? Isn't Wednesday a work day?


They are coming to these things, because they are having a difficult time coping with how far their cause has fallen, and how low the tide of Conservatism is at this moment. Most of these people are shell-shocked that the Democrats have kicked your asses so badly the last two electoral cycles and they don't know what to do about it.

The fact that they are complaining about paying too much in taxes, while ignoring the fact that they are perfectly well represented in Washington, and yet compare it to Tea Parties held in the past; it shows a complete lack of perspective and is really quite insulting to our forefathers.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 04:03 pm
@mysteryman,
mm, Your "lets do this and that" about government spending is a waste of time and energy, because they do not listen to the citizens no matter what our concerns are. They get their own experts, and decide what to do, and we are to blame because we keep voting in the same representatives in congress who hold the purse strings.

Most of us are very good at sounding off, but we have no influence on our government except at the voting poll, and we fail there too!

Lucky us!
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 04:44 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

I would guess that roughly a third to a half of those attending in Albuquerque, just judging from those lining Montgomery Blvd, were Hispanic. A smattering of folks who were black or probably Indian though ethnicity isn't always possible to tell just by looking. The short clip on the MSM evening news, however very briefly showed a small group of "Anglo" faces and nothing else.


Your tea party was segregated? Did the minorities get to protest at the end of the boulevard? Post your pictures.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 04:45 pm
@old europe,
All of our military, NASA, federal buildings, national parks and museums. And our children and grandchildren's future.

0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 04:50 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
The fact that they are complaining about paying too much in taxes, while ignoring the fact that they are perfectly well represented in Washington, and yet compare it to Tea Parties held in the past; it shows a complete lack of perspective and is really quite insulting to our forefathers.

Cycloptichorn


And, most of the tax protestors who attended those parties will pay less taxes now that Obama is in office than they did when Bush was in office. Yet, they didn't protest about their tax bill last year.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 05:09 pm
@mysteryman,
I guess you failed to note that we are the biggest creditor nation in the world. If they all called the debts, it would be all over for us.
0 Replies
 
 

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