55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Mar, 2009 09:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Look it up yourself on the internet.

By the way, I am still waiting for you to educate us all on how Obama is going to wean us off of oil cartel oil in 10 years, with wind and solar. Or is your answer in that case, also, "look it up yourself on the internet?'

I am fascinated by the predatory lending practice, ci, I too would like an explanation. You say it was a case of salesmen earning their commissions, is that it? Just wondering, if the loan company could not bundle the loans and sell them to Fannie and Freddie, just how long would those salesmen last with a bank making those fraudulant or shaky loans? Would you venture a guess on that? Or is the answer, "look it up yourself on the internet?"
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Mar, 2009 09:51 pm
@georgeob1,
I understand that nobody trusts Russia all that much and you very well may be right. But gut level, I don't think that we would be expending political capital and U.S. dollars on such a system if Russia was the only 'threat' out there right now. Everybody is concerned about North Korea and Iran and I don't think anybody is turning their back on Pakistan for that matter. However, if Russia keeps ratcheting up the rhetoric and does a bit more saber rattling, then I would agree they would be #1. I do believe Russia is more concerned about having their own fangs pulled than they are concerned about anybody attacking them.

The defense system helps us if it keeps us from having to go to the defense of somebody in Europe who is attacked.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Mar, 2009 09:52 pm
Fox, you asked, and it was answered in regards to Russia and why they would care. I understand you don't want to accept the answers, but they are there. You seemed to think there was none. Bad bet. I would think that you would have learned against doing this by now, but hey.

Several posters now from multiple angles outlined why Russia would care about a US missile installation near their borders. Whether or not those facilities would actually be used as we say they would or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is what Russia thinks they are for. This we do not have to speculate about, because Russia has made it very clear that they believe those facilities would be used against them.

You asked why would Russia care if that technology wasn't good?
It was answered.

Asked--answered. Done.

Consider yourself educated and move on.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Mar, 2009 10:42 pm
A thorough spanking of a wishy washy, appeasing, politically correct GOP by one of my very favorite MACean conservatives who isn't afraid to tell it like it is:

Quote:
March 17, 2009
The Republican Civil War
By Thomas Sowell

As if it is not enough that they have been decimated by the Democrats in the past couple of elections, the Republican survivors are now turning their guns on each other.

At the heart of these internal battles have been attacks on Rush Limbaugh by Republicans who imagine themselves to be so much more sophisticated because they are so much more in step with the political fashions of the time.

New Republican National Committee chairman Michael Steele's cheap shot at Rush's program as "ugly" set off the latest round of in-fighting. That is the kind of thing that is usually said by liberals who have never listened to the program.

Regular listeners to the Rush Limbaugh program or subscribers to the Limbaugh newsletter know that both contain far more factual information and in-depth analysis than in the programs or writings of pundits with more of a ponderous tone or intellectual airs.

Why Michael Steele found it necessary to say such a thing-- except as a sop to the liberal intelligentsia-- is one of the many mysteries of the Republican Party. Steele has since apologized to Rush but you cannot unring the bell.

More important, the mindset it betrays is at the heart of many of the problems of the Republican Party, going back for years, long before Michael Steele appeared on the scene.

There has long been an element of the Republican Party that has felt a need to distance themselves from people who stand up for conservative principles, whether those with principles have been Ronald Reagan, Rush Limbaugh or whomever.

The latest example is John McCain's daughter, who has said how embarrassed she is by having to explain Ann Coulter to her friends. If it wasn't for articulate conservatives like Ann Coulter, both the Republican Party and the country would be in even worse shape than they are now, for there are extremely few articulate Republican politicians who can make the case for any principle. Certainly Ms. McCain's father is not one of them.

The only time John McCain led Barack Obama in the polls last year was after Governor Sarah Palin joined the ticket. The economic collapse doomed their candidacies but McCain would have had no chance at all with another inconsistent and inarticulate Republican like himself on the ticket.

Yet many in the Republican Party seem to have felt as embarrassed by Governor Palin as they have been by others who articulated principles, instead of trying to be in step with the fashions of the time-- fashions set by liberals.

Maybe those Republicans who put a high value on being accepted in elite circles should be embarrassed by the narrowness of their elite friends, who disdain or demonize people whose principles they disagree with, instead of answering their arguments.

There has even been an undercurrent among some Republicans of a sense that it is time to move away from the image of Ronald Reagan, to update the party and court newer and less embarrassing segments of the voters than their current base.

There is certainly a lot to be said for inviting wider segments of the population to join you, by explaining how your principles benefit the country in general, and those segments in particular. But that is fundamentally different from abandoning your principles in hopes of attracting new votes with opportunism.

No segment of the population has lost more by the agendas of the liberal constituencies of the Democratic Party than the black population.

The teachers' unions, environmental fanatics and the ACLU are just some of the groups to whose interests blacks have been sacrificed wholesale. Lousy education and high crime rates in the ghettos, and unaffordable housing elsewhere with building restrictions, are devastating prices to pay for liberalism.

Yet the Republicans have never articulated that argument, and their opportunism in trying to get black votes by becoming imitation Democrats has failed miserably for decades on end.

There seemed, for an all too brief moment, that Michael Steele might have been the one to provide such much overdue articulation-- and possibly he still might, but only if he stays out of the Republican trap of trying to appease opponents by throwing supporters to the wolves.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/03/the_republican_civil_war.html
Foxfyre
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 16 Mar, 2009 10:48 pm
And Ican, this one is for you, our Constitutional bulldog: Smile

Quote:
A MINORITY VIEW
BY WALTER E. WILLIAMS
Good Ideas

During winter months, I work out 10 minutes on the treadmill and lift weights at seven stations four mornings a week. Over the years, during the spring through fall months, I racked up about 2,000 miles on my road bike. This level of exercise helps account for why, at 73 years, I'm in such good health and physical fitness. So my question to you is whether you think regular exercise is a good idea. I think the answer is definitely yes, if nothing other than its beneficial effects on health care costs. Since exercise is a good idea, would you support a congressional mandate that all Americans engage in regular exercise?

Instead of simply saying, "Williams, you're a lunatic!" and rejecting such a congressional mandate out of hand, let's ask why it should be rejected. We should keep in mind that there's precedent for congressionally mandated measures to protect our health and safety. Seatbelt and helmet laws are examples. If you're in an accident and wind up a vegetable, you will be a burden on taxpayers; therefore, it's argued, Congress has a right to mandate seatbelt and helmet usage. Wouldn't the same reasoning apply to people who might burden our health care system because of obesity or sedentary lifestyles? If it is a good idea for Congress to force us to buckle up and wear a helmet on a motorcycle, isn't it also a good idea to force us to regularly exercise?

There is only one question to ask were there to be a debate whether Congress should mandate regular exercise. Whether regular exercise is a good idea or a bad idea is entirely irrelevant. The only relevant question is: Is it permissible under the Constitution? That means we must examine the Constitution to see whether it authorizes Congress to mandate exercise. From my reading, the Constitution grants no such authority.

You say, "Aha, Williams, you've blown it this time. What about Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, which says Congress shall provide for the 'general welfare of the United States.'? Surely, healthy Americans contribute to the nation's general welfare."

That's precisely the response I'd expect from your average law professor, congressman or derelict U.S. Supreme Court justice. Let's look at what the men who wrote the Constitution had to say about its general welfare clause.

In a letter to Edmund Pendleton, James Madison, the father of the Constitution, said, "If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one ..." Madison also said, "With respect to the two words "general welfare," I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." Thomas Jefferson said, "Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."

If you compare the vision of our nation's founders to the behavior of today's Congress, White House and U.S. Supreme Court, you would have to conclude that there is no longer rule of law where there is a set of general rules applicable to all persons. Today, we are commanded by legislative thugs who, with Supreme Court sanction, issue orders commanding particular people to do particular things. Most Americans neither understand nor appreciate the spirit and letter of the Constitution and accept Congress' arbitrary orders and privileges based upon status.

What to do? Thomas Jefferson advised, "Whensoever the General (federal) Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force." That bit of Jeffersonian advice is dangerous. While Congress does not have constitutional authority for most of what it does, it does have police and military power to inflict great pain and punishment for disobedience.
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/09/GoodIdeas.htm
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Mar, 2009 11:09 pm
@Foxfyre,
If you ever wanted proof that Sowell's compass is incorrectly calibrated, this essay is it.

In Summary: Rush, and Coulter are right, and more importantly they are the best definition of articulate and intellectual conservatives. Inversely, moderate republicans are appeasers who need to get re-certified in the classical GOP stay-the-course brand agree-or-stay-silent.

Pay attention Fox, this is how your world view goes extinct. You see, when the Dems took the big loses in 200o and 2004, they regrouped and got their message together, they still wanted to convey all the touchy-feely stuff, but realized that they needed to know how to illustrate the practical need for things like environmental protection etc. They became stronger by adapting to the people and making their message more palatable for the general public which YOU NEED TO BE REMINDED IS NOT EXTREME LEFT OR RIGHT.

Now, you present for us (and personally, to my amusement) Sowell's battle cry to build more arrows to fight a ideological war fought with bullets; a demand to assemble a balloon to race the concord around the world. The GOP ship is sinking, and Sowell is not offering any good advice as to how to mend it's hull.

I'm quite pleased to see that the GOP is at least challenging it's identity. I'm hoping that some it's it's leadership emerge with a new spirit, and a new wave of ideas. I wish them nothing but success.

When I hear you championing these people Fox, I'm left with a question. Would you rather conservatism be validated or would you rather things be fixed/work? I see the GOP rejecting the anti-intellectual and the ultra-neo-con-ala-Rush-Coulter as being a step in the direction of coming together and fixing things, but no doubt a bad step in terms of validating those ideas your pride seems woven into. I understand you don't want to be wrong, but how did you get this way to begin with? What point did you decide to go all in on a rigid ideology?

Sowell is dead wrong, and this kind of conservative is the type to keep a GOP civil war going as long as he's losing. What I see is the acknowledgment that GOP leadership needs to have a united front by at least 2010, and people like Sowell are insecure about what that front will look like. In this case, he puts blame on the moderate GOP for loosing the last election (false) and attempts to guilt them into retreat. I mean, hell, they wouldn't want to hurt the party right?

I think the healthiest thing for the GOP will be a very heavily contested run for the 2012 presidency where their candidates are forced to talk about solutions and not who is the best at being a republican, conservative, or a right winger.

Get a clue Sowell.

T
K
O
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 02:13 am
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:
. . . I think the healthiest thing for the GOP will be a very heavily contested run for the 2012 presidency where their candidates are forced to talk about solutions and not who is the best at being a republican, conservative, or a right winger.


Great post.

I predict that members of the GOP will not talk about solutions. Rather, they will beat their "same old ideology" drum. They will allege that there is nothing wrong with their ideology and that their past failures stem from the failure of their elected predecessors to apply the ideology in real life. That means they will advocate what they have always advocated:

* limited government regulation; laizze faire (buyer beware) capitalism;

* reducing or eliminating taxes for the wealthy (because they need their money to live in the lap of luxury, which will trickle down because living large will encourage them to create minimal paying jobs for the peons);

* tort reform that eliminates the right of injured persons to seek compensation for their injuries caused by the wealthy and by business;

* elimination of the right to sue boards of directors of corporations for failing to protect the interests of shareholders;

* executive entitlement to multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses with their compensation packages guaranteed regardless of their performance or the harm they cause to our economy or environment;

* death to the unionists because labor is expensive and wages must be reduced (and employee benefits eliminated) so that the wealthy may get wealthier;

* tightening border security and getting tough on illegal immigration (all the while failing to actually address the issue because illegal immigrants constitute a huge pool of cheap labor);

* drill baby drill;

* death to the environmentalists;

* social programs must be cut and the poor, homeless, disabled, sick, maimed, and diseased and their children will have to look out for themselves or depend on the hit & miss "charity" of others because it's the "American" way for people to "earn" their own way in life regardless of their ability (or inability) to do so;

* the nation's taxpayers must pay to send children to private religious schools, in accordance with parental wishes, where these children will be forced to pray everyday and learn about intelligent design; and

* the right-wing extremists must be allowed to abuse the power of the state to force their moral views concerning religion, science, sex, marriage, reproductive rights, etc., on all others in society.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 08:22 am
@Debra Law,
Debra law has, by implication, given us all an example of presisely the kind of idealogical fervor and intolerance of which she assuses conservatives. She, of course, only hopes that the Democrat Congress and our new president won't fall victim to the hubris that too often attends sudden vistory and the venality that attends power. Unfortunatelky for her - and all of us - both appear to be happening very quickly and even very early in the game.

Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 09:23 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Debra law has, by implication, given us all an example of presisely the kind of idealogical fervor and intolerance of which she assuses conservatives. She, of course, only hopes that the Democrat Congress and our new president won't fall victim to the hubris that too often attends sudden vistory and the venality that attends power. Unfortunatelky for her - and all of us - both appear to be happening very quickly and even very early in the game.


I think our new President is indeed finding that talking a great sounding game is much easier than actually playing the game, and that campaigning is really REALLY much easier and more pleasant than is governing.

IMO, all Obama had to do to retain his Messianic image was express the following principles whether or not an intractable Congress supported him:

1. Give a clear and credible explanation for the need for any 'bail out' money along with assurance that every penny would be accounted for and limited to specific necessary purposes with every penny to be repaid. And every penny spent would be posted on that website as good faith transparency proving that the government can be trusted.

2. Announce that as long as the economy is in recession there will be no tax increases and propose tax relief for businesses and individuals as the best economic stimulus.

3. Announce that the government will practice as much frugality as possible and avoid all spending that can wait to avoid saddling the tax payers with bigger deficits to pay off and he is prepared to use the veto pen to enforce that policy.

4. Encourage the American people to do what the American people do best which is to generate prosperity, improve quality of life, and take care of each other so that the recession will be less severe and of shorter duration than it otherwise will be. Let him know what the federal government can do to expedite that.

Had he done that, he would have the people behind him. (I would be one of them.) Instead it appears that we have an increasingly unpopular Congress realizing they better begin reining in HIS proposed excesses, not that he has had much power up against Pelosi and Reid thus far.

Until that ungodly first budget he proposed, it has been more like this:

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/090313beelertoon_c_120090313052012.jpg




Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 09:24 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
Debra law has, by implication, given us all an example of presisely the kind of idealogical fervor and intolerance of which she assuses conservatives.

That's how you see it. The way I see it, she has made a number of testable predictions. In 2012, she will turn out to be either correct or incorrect. If she turns out to be correct, you will confess to your pastor about the nasty things you just said about her, and he'll make you pray three Hail Maries. Conversely, if you turn out to be correct, you get to dig up this post in 2012 and rub Debra's face in it.

Sounds fair to me.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 09:28 am
@Foxfyre,
Quote:


2. Announce that as long as the economy is in recession there will be no tax increases and propose tax relief for businesses and individuals as the best economic stimulus.

3. Announce that the government will practice as much frugality as possible and avoid all spending that can wait to avoid saddling the tax payers with bigger deficits to pay off and he is prepared to use the veto pen to enforce that policy.


Um, he likely does not believe #2 is true and #3 is counter-productive in a recession, Mrs. Hoover.

You seem to think that if Obama were just a Republican, he'd be doing fine. the truth is he's doing fine anyways; his approval ratings are fine and the Republican's are in the toilet.

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 09:41 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Yes I know what he says that he thinks, but even a cursory reading of honest American history would show that raising taxes in time of a slowing economy, let alone recession, is imprudent if not insane; and doubling, tripling, and quadrupling the annual deficit is neither a way to positively stimulate the economy nor fiscally responsible.

The day, just recently, that he self-righteously told the American people to 'stop watching the stock market' even as many are seeing their life savings and/or the money they expected to sustain them in their old age shrink to a mere fraction of what it was, told me that the man is totally out of touch with reality when it comes to the economy.

Whatever the Republicans are in right now, they are certainly not in power. And sooner, rather than later, President OBama is not going to be able to blame his imprudent policies on President Bush or the GOP.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 09:44 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Yes I know what he says that he thinks, but even a cursory reading of honest American history would show that raising taxes in time of a slowing economy, let alone recession, is imprudent if not insane; and doubling, tripling, and quadrupling the annual deficit is neither a way to positively stimulate the economy nor fiscally responsible.


As far as I can tell, Obama has not proposed raising taxes during the middle of a recession; and he has cut them for many people. Now, within a few years, when things start getting better, he will raise taxes on the rich; after all, that was a major plank of his platform when he ran for Prez, it's not like he didn't make it clear that he wanted to do that.

The annual deficit stood at a trillion dollars when he took office; he is not doubling that at this point. And I think there's room for differences of opinion when it comes to stimulating the economy and what works and what doesn't.

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 10:03 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Really? Who has he cut taxes for? I sure haven't seen my tax bill go down any nor have I seen any predictions for tax relief next year. Have you? Where?

And according to what I read, there will be a lot of new taxes beginning next year including higher rates on income and capital gains for some, and loss of some critical deductions for some that so far I haven't seen anybody except extreme leftists approve. Not a smart plan when the country is in shaky financial shape.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 10:08 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Really? Who has he cut taxes for? I sure haven't seen my tax bill go down any. Have you? Where?


The 65/mo. payroll tax cuts go into effect on April 1st. Now, if you'd researched the Stim bill, you wouldn't have to have me tell you that.

Quote:
And according to what I read, there will be a lot of new taxes beginning next year including higher rates on income and capital gains for some, and loss of some critical deductions for some that so far I haven't seen anybody except extreme leftists approve. Not a smart plan when the country is in shaky financial shape.


Yes, and Obama has stated that if the situation isn't improved by then, we won't begin to raise those taxes. But likely things will be somewhat better next year.

I support higher rates of income taxes and cap. gains taxes, and removing deductions. Hell, even you support removing SOME deductions, right?

If the country thought that right-wing plans were 'smart,' they probably would have elected right-wingers to enact them, wouldn't they? The truth is that your opinion on financial matters is a minority one at the moment.

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 10:44 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Okay, I had forgotten about the tax rebate. It has been structured as a payroll deduction this time rather than the government mailing out checks to everybody, so I, as a self-employed person, won't be seeing any of that until we file our taxes, if then. It isn't a permanent tax cut though, and it remains to be seen how much of that will be offset by his cap and trade scheme will raise energy costs to reduce that credit--he admits it will increase those costs--and everybody pays those costs. And it remains to be seen how much his intention to sock it to the rich with higher tax rates and reduced deductions will affect my bottom line too as those "rich" folks are generally the bread and butter for a lot of us doing business and they do pass as much as possible of their higher costs on down the line so that the little people wind up paying more or receiving less.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 11:06 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Okay, I had forgotten about the tax rebate. It has been structured as a payroll deduction this time rather than the government mailing out checks to everybody, so I, as a self-employed person, won't be seeing any of that until we file our taxes, if then. It isn't a permanent tax cut though, and it remains to be seen how much of that will be offset by his cap and trade scheme will raise energy costs to reduce that credit--he admits it will increase those costs--and everybody pays those costs. And it remains to be seen how much his intention to sock it to the rich with higher tax rates and reduced deductions will affect my bottom line too as those "rich" folks are generally the bread and butter for a lot of us doing business and they do pass as much as possible of their higher costs on down the line so that the little people wind up paying more or receiving less.


No tax cuts are 'permanent,' so I don't know why you mention that.

Well, how did you stay in business during the 90's, when the rich paid the taxes that they are going to now be paying?

How did businesses operate in the decades leading up to 1980, when the top tax rates were much higher than they are today?

All this fear mongering about businesses being unable to make it under Obama's higher proposed tax rates is not supported by the historical record! Our country saw plenty of growth under much higher rates of taxation then what we are looking at today...

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 11:15 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Not fear mongering. I didn't say I didn't survive. And I didn't suggest that I won't survive now. I haven't suggested that businesses won't make it under Obama. It is dishonest to portray what I did say in that manner.

But tax breaks for the 'rich' benefitted me before even though I have never been monetarily rich. And taxes targeting the rich have affected my bottom line negatively before even though the taxes weren't directed at me. You see, I speak from experience. You seem to be speaking from mostly theory and talking points or I think you wouldn't speak as you speak.
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 11:25 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre, your "Constitutional bulldog", thanks you for posting Walter Williams's Good Ideas.
I especially liked the last two paragraphs:
Walter Williams wrote:
If you compare the vision of our nation's founders to the behavior of today's Congress, White House and U.S. Supreme Court, you would have to conclude that there is no longer rule of law where there is a set of general rules applicable to all persons. Today, we are commanded by legislative thugs who, with Supreme Court sanction, issue orders commanding particular people to do particular things. Most Americans neither understand nor appreciate the spirit and letter of the Constitution and accept Congress' arbitrary orders and privileges based upon status.

What to do? Thomas Jefferson advised, "Whensoever the General (federal) Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force." That bit of Jeffersonian advice is dangerous. While Congress does not have constitutional authority for most of what it does, it does have police and military power to inflict great pain and punishment for disobedience.
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/09/GoodIdeas.htm

The solution for how to save our Constitutional Republic is not to repeatedly sound alarms and repeatedly give the reasons for those alarms. The solution is to impeach President Obama. He is continually transferring wealth from those persons and organizations that lawfully earned it to those persons and organizations that have not earned it.

The Liberal Democrats have devolved into gangsters: that is, a gang of thieves greedy for power. Barack Obama is their current gang leader.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Mar, 2009 12:07 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Not fear mongering. I didn't say I didn't survive. And I didn't suggest that I won't survive now. I haven't suggested that businesses won't make it under Obama. It is dishonest to portray what I did say in that manner.

But tax breaks for the 'rich' benefitted me before even though I have never been monetarily rich. And taxes targeting the rich have affected my bottom line negatively before even though the taxes weren't directed at me. You see, I speak from experience. You seem to be speaking from mostly theory and talking points or I think you wouldn't speak as you speak.


I'm sure you do think that.

You understand that your bottom line is neither my concern nor that of the nation? If you make less profits, it's nothing to me. You can either find a way to make more profits by doing additional/different work, or you can settle for less money in your pocket. The rules do not exist in order to keep your revenue stream going, but instead to keep the US of A solvent as a nation. It is your responsibility as a businessperson to come up with a profitable business model in the face of whatever regulatory and taxation scheme we operate under.

Cycloptichorn
 

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