AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@Debra Law,

Quite the contrary. MACs want all constituents to be able to acquire their own cheese without having to grovel at the feet of some pretender dogooder who presumes the constituents are too stupid or too incompetent or too oppressed to earn it for themselves. MACs know that the pretender acquires his/her power by ensuring that their constituents are always in need of cheese and keep voting in the pretender so that they can have it. MACs know that only when you learn to make or earn your own cheese and are allowed to do so are you truly free.

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Still seems like a pretty self centered philosophy Fox. It's still about the individual and not the society as a whole. Perhaps a workable philosophy in a smaller setting, but I can't see how it makes for a good national outlook.

T
K
O

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@Foxfyre,

Quote:

Quite the contrary. MACs want all constituents to be able to acquire their own cheese ...

Minimum Wage

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:
Quite the contrary. MACs want all constituents to be able to acquire their own cheese ...

Minimum Wage

Especially when they control the cheese.

T
K
O

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Quite the contrary. MACs want all constituents to be able to acquire their own cheese without having to grovel at the feet of some pretender dogooder who presumes the constituents are too stupid or too incompetent or too oppressed to earn it for themselves. MACs know that the pretender acquires his/her power by ensuring that their constituents are always in need of cheese and keep voting in the pretender so that they can have it. MACs know that only when you learn to make or earn your own cheese and are allowed to do so are you truly free.

Bunch of holier-than-thou bullshit. It doesn't explain why the bunch of you are always racing to be the first ones to stand in the cheese line. You and your hypocritical gang of "conservatives" have your hands on the vast share of government largess while you simultaneously denigrate welfare moms who need a helping hand. Conservatives are hypocrites.

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:
Quite the contrary. MACs want all constituents to be able to acquire their own cheese ...

Minimum Wage

Exactly.

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@Debra Law,

Quote:

Conservatives are hypocrites.

As are many if not most liberals.
There are many examples of liberal hypocrisy also, so dont take the attitude that liberals are all perfect examples of decency.
That isnt true either.

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@Debra Law,

That's not the only issue concerning party politics in the US; conservatives always "try" to tell us that corporate taxes kill business in our country, but in fact we pay some of the lowest corporate tax of any developed country.

Another issue is the percentage of GDP Americans give towards donations compared to most developed countries, and we come in dead last. Conservatives cry their croc tears that taxes transfers wealth from the rich to the poor, but the fact of the matter is, we are transferring our debt to our children and grandchildren while giving tax breaks to the rich. And there is no fear for the conservatives that wealth is being transferred from the rich to the poor.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Another issue is the percentage of GDP Americans give towards donations compared to most developed countries, and we come in dead last

You neglected to mention the other part of that equation.
We may come in last in percentage of GDP that we give, but we still are the most generous and giving then any other country on earth, in terms of TOTAL donations.

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@mysteryman,

There's two ways to look at this; I prefer to look at per capita average giving as more impressive than the total. Let's face it; just a few in the US make up most of the total dollars given.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Another issue is the percentage of GDP Americans give towards donations compared to most developed countries, and we come in dead last.

I smell a statistic wrongfully quoted and out of context here. Can you more presisely define what constitutes "the percentage of GDP Americans give towards donations"? Can you also provide us a specific source for your information? I believe you are considering only grants and aid provided by the government (and very likely not including our funding of the AIDS treatment program in Africa), and, equally importantly, not the private giving of individual Americans. Moreover, I believe that, if you did some research and actually counted the latter category, you would find that the reality is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.

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Acknowledging Debra's comments and declaring them to be the most glaring example of utter BS we've heard today. But what do you expect from a group who presumes the power to take as much cheese as it wants from those who manufacture and/or earn their own cheese for the purpose of redistribution to whomever will keep them voted into power?

Agreeing with MM & George that Americans, more often than not tne more conservative Americans, are the most generous people on Earth. MACs, and actually most conservatives, however, believe that giving their own money is true benevolence. Liberals seem to think that taking MY money and giving it to others is the definition of benevolence.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob, You are correct; I just glanced over an email from a friend in Australia, and assumed wrongly that his "Aussie Generosity" meant individual donations as a percentage of GDP. That's the reason I again wrongly posted that "only a few donors make up most of the donations." Thanks for the head's up.

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@mysteryman,

You've had your brain so totally fogged, MM that you either forget to mention the pertinent issues or you maliciously distort the issues.

Quote:

"[Americans] are regularly told by politicians and the media, that America is the world's most generous nation. This is one of the most conventional pieces of 'knowledgeable ignorance'. According to the OECD, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, the US gave between $6 and $15 billion in foreign aid in the period between 1995 and 1999. In absolute terms, Japan gives more than the US, between $9 and $15 billion in the same period.

But the absolute figures are less significant than the proportion of gross domestic product (GDP, or national wealth) that a country devotes to foreign aid.

On that league table, the US ranks twenty-second of the 22 most developed nations. As former President Jimmy Carter commented: 'We are the stingiest nation of all'. Denmark is top of the table, giving 1.01% of GDP, while the US manages just 0.1%. The United Nations has long established the target of 0.7% GDP for development assistance, although only four countries actually achieve this: Denmark, 1.01%; Norway, 0.91%; the Netherlands, 0.79%; Sweden, 0.7%. Apart from being the least generous nation, the US is highly selective in who receives its aid. Over 50% of its aid budget is spent on middle-income countries in the Middle East, with Israel being the recipient of the largest single share"
"Why do people hate America?" by Ziauddin Sardar and Merryl Wyn Davies, 2002. p79

Not only that, but according to one source cited by Sarder & Davies, 80% of that aid itself actually goes to American companies in those foreign countries.

Tied Aid:
"The most generous countries are also the ones that do not tend to tie aid to their own products and services. The stingiest countries also, almost spitefully and nastily, force countries to buy their own services and products with the aid they give; which reduces free trade and commerce and harms the countries economy, as well as being simply selfish and conceited.

Thankfully, many countries do not tie their aid. Countries that tie less than 10% of aid include Ireland, Norway and the UK, then Belgium, Finland, Switzerland and Sweden. The USA is the worst, and ties nearly 90% of its aid to developing countries. Italy is the second worst with 70%. The two worst countries for this obnoxious practice in aid-giving are also the two countries out of the most developed countries, who give least generously!"

[emphasis is mine]

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The difference is that liberals don't count it as 'giving' unless the government does it. Liberals want the government to take my money and give it to somebody else so that the liberals can then strut around and feel righteous that they are so unselfish and noble.

I don't feel good about it at all unless I get out my checkbook and write out the check from my own bank account and give it voluntarily; preferably anonymously so far as the recipient is concerned. Americans do that more often and with more generosity than any other people on Earth.

But in the liberal world, that doesn't count.

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@Foxfyre,

Quote:

Agreeing with MM & George that Americans, more often than not tne more conservative Americans, are the most generous people on Earth.

Pure hogwash. If there was an index that took in the total suffering caused by countries with the "aid" given, the US might then top the list. A very large amount of US "aid" is for military hardware, the vast majority of US "aid" goes to middle income countries. Most US "aid" is simply part and parcel of a self serving immoral foreign policy agenda.

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@JTT,

You are apparently confusing foreign aid, which is govt controlled and govt given, with the donations to charity given by PRIVATE CITIZENS.

I am strictly speaking about how private citizens donate to charity, I am NOT talking about govt programs or foreign aid.

There is a difference.

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I don't believe there is any Constitutional authority for the government to be giving ANY charity to anybody. So if we would go back to pre-FDR days when it was the responsibility of the people, not the government, to dispense charity, that would eliminate the problem of misdirected government 'charity' wouldn't it.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Quote:

I don't believe there is any Constitutional authority for the government to be giving ANY charity to anybody.

It's pretty clear that you are not a Constitutional authority, Foxy. Before you post on such things, perhaps you should check with Ican.

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@JTT,

I wonder if the MAC's, GW Bush's, funding of religious organizations found any criticisms from the other MAC, Foxie. LOL

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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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