AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@Foxfyre,

Same here: an "extreme socialist" is .... well, a nearly communist, at the most left side..

An "extreme conservative" is .... someone very on the right, a 'nearly neo-Nazi' (and most often is one).

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@ican711nm,

Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter were the personification of you lot and they, with your assistance, helped all that's happened for the last 8 years happen. They created the boogeymen and y'all parroted their bullshit.

If Reagan were live, he might have had the odd disagreement with the neocons, at least in the few moments that he was sentient. But he would have embraced the slaughter unleashed upon the Iraqi people. When it came to the slaughter of innocents, he was at his finest.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Same here: an "extreme socialist" is .... well, a nearly communist, at the most left side..

An "extreme conservative" is .... someone very on the right, a 'nearly neo-Nazi' (and most often is one).

Yes, I've long been aware the the terms as used by Americans are often differently perceived in Europe and vice versa.

Here the very small group of Nazi sympathisers would most likely be more likely to register Republican and they are extreme but they certainly are not conservative nor are they sympathetic to nor viewed as people to be commended or emulated by mainstream conservatives. Also the far religious right would be seen as extreme and the GOP is saddled with a few other groups that most Republicans/Americans strongly disagree with and/or even denounce.

And those environmental wackos who commit malicious sabotage and vandalism or who advocate putting clothes over the private parts of animals and those who spray paint women in fur coats and who want vegetarianism to be made law and who think adults should be able to have sex with kids in some circumstances and who promote racism to the degree of a Louis Farrakhan et al or who want all religious symbols and evidence removed from any public view and a few other unsavory groups are all more likely to register Democrat even though most Democrats/Americans strongly disagree with and/or even denounce such groups or activities.

In our political system, political parties cannot pick and choose who they want to be members of their parties and there is no legal means by which anybody can be expelled for any reason from any party.

But to judge all based on our unpleasant experience with a few is really a pretty good example of bigotry or prejudice don't you think?

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SOME TRADITIONAL AMERICAN VALUES

And God spoke all these words, saying:

I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage; thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

Thou shall not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; thou shall not bow down unto them , nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy: six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is a sabbath unto the Lord thy God, in it thou shalt not do any manner of work, nor thy wife, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid- servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day; wherefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it.

Honour thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

Thou shalt not commit murder.

Thou shalt not commit adultery or fornicate.

Thou shalt not steal.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house; thou shall not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his man servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbour’s.

2.4 BILLION EARTH YEARS EQUAL ONE OF GOD'S DAYS. 6 OF GOD'S DAYS EQUAL 14.4 BILLION YEARS.

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@ican711nm,

ican has now described the American values as the bible. ROFL

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

ican has now described the ten commandments to be some of the traditional American values.

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@ican711nm,

Yes, but Modern American Conservatism does not necessarily require that those values include belief in the source of those commandments or that worship of God or gods is necesary in order for one to hold MAC beliefs. The basic principles guiding human conduct contained within the commandments I think most MACs would agree are traditional American values, however. I wish we all had continued to honor the Sabbath as a day of rest regardless of our religious beliefs though. We were a more pleasant place when one day was set aside for family, relaxation, time with friends etc.

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@Foxfyre,

I didn't literally mean the price of a ticket, and, BTW, unless you're going alone and walking to the cineplex, a night at the movies with a date is more like $40.00 (up to $60.00 for a small family) as most would certainly also eat out and buy popcorn, etc., from the snack bar. Along with the medical bills later in life as that meal is usually fast food.

Traditional American values, like the family meeting at Thanksgiving and enjoying getting bored, fat and drunk?

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Or this traditional American value, definitely out of the conservatives' bag:

Corporation, n., An ingenious device for obtaining profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce

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@Lightwizard,

Well I was just using a basic economic principle of supply and demand in my movie analogy. But as the movie industry seems to be struggling these days and it seems that many theaters and theater chains are up for sale if not declaring bankruptcy these days, it just struck me that charging higher prices for tickets and popcorn are not likely to entice more clientele.

But yeah, I think most MACs do think people should have the right for family meetings at Thanksgiving and to be bored and get drunk if that's what they choose to do. MACs don't necessarily condone stupidity of course, but a basic MAC principle is the right to be stupid so long as the stupidity does not violate anybody else's unalienable, civil, legal, or Constitutional rights.

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@Lightwizard,

Lightwizard wrote:

Or this traditional American value, definitely out of the conservatives' bag:

Corporation, n., An ingenious device for obtaining profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce

Maybe that's why so many big corporate execs contribute heavily to Democrats? I doubt they use Beirce's humor as a talking point to justify that though and I would be reluctant to say that most Democrats oppose individual responsibility.

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@ican711nm,

Holy jumpin' sheepshit! McTag was wrong, at least in degree. This is way more serious than nuts.

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@ican711nm,

Quote:

Thou shalt not commit murder.

You and yours [the USA] have committed murder on a scale that is unprecedented, if not in numbers, in numbers of countries.

Thou shalt not commit adultery or fornicate.

Every time you've invaded another country, the invaders have left their seed, with nary a thought to the much vaunted ideal of personal responsibility.

Thou shalt not steal.

Stealing the riches of poor countries is the USA's forte.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Standard practice on the part of the USA to initiate "war".

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house; thou shall not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his man servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbour’s.

You covet it all, just prior to stealing it.

Yup, traditional American values all.

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@Foxfyre,

You think you're funny (funny -- odd, maybe), Foxfyre -- two-thirds of corporate contributions go to Republicans. Since you wrote in the singular of "corporate executives," what executives are you pointing out? Name one.

You have sluffed off what Bierce was inferring and he hadn't experience such gigantic examples as Enron, Arthur Anderson, Merrill Lynch (Mob). et al

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@Lightwizard,

Still spouting stuff you want to believe instead of the way it is huh LW?

Try these sites. I took the one from Common Dreams because there is no more blatently liberally biased site on the web though Huffington Post, Salon.com, and Daily Kos are really really close:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0619-05.htm

http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB117790069010286617-Xz4XikFqFlSwWSokkpgptCULmoo_20080428.html

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

... a basic MAC principle is the right to be stupid

And they certainly practice what they preach.

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@joefromchicago,

Foxie, No need to convince us; you've proven it enough times on these threads.

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@JTT,

THESE ARE MALARKEY!

JTT wrote:

You and yours [the USA] have committed murder on a scale that is unprecedented, if not in numbers, in numbers of countries.

Every time you've invaded another country, the invaders have left their seed, with nary a thought to the much vaunted ideal of personal responsibility.

Stealing the riches of poor countries is the USA's forte.

Standard practice on the part of the USA to initiate "war".

You covet it all, just prior to stealing it.

Yup, traditional American values all.

SOME MORE ACTUAL TRADITIONAL AMERICAN VALUES

21These are the ordinances that you shall set before them:
The Law concerning Violence
12Whoever strikes a person mortally shall be put to death.
13If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee.
14But if someone wilfully attacks and kills another by treachery, you shall take the killer from my altar for execution.
15 Whoever strikes father or mother shall be put to death.
16 Whoever kidnaps a person, whether that person has been sold or is still held in possession, shall be put to death.
17 Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death.
18 When individuals quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or fist so that the injured party, though not dead, is confined to bed,
19but recovers and walks around outside with the help of a staff, then the assailant shall be free of liability, except to pay for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery.
20 When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished.
21But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.
22 When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine.
23If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,
24eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

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@ican711nm,

Ican, come on. I know you're kidding but some of these people really aren't smart enough to figure that out. You better make a point of advising them.

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@Foxfyre,

Quote:

Ican, come on. I know you're kidding but some of these people really aren't smart enough to figure that out. You better make a point of advising them.

NO HE ISN'T, Foxfyre. No...he is not kidding.

I can understand you wishing he were on someone else's side! But he's not. He is on your side in this discussion.

1 Reply

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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