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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 12:34 pm
@Brand WTF,
Quote:
Discriminatory practices were there for lots of reasons.

Ah, the American Right! Defending discrimination any chance it gets!
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 01:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
And here we have Obama extending tax cuts for the rich for two more years, because he lied to the American people - yet again.


I don't totally blame Obama - this battle should have been fought to a conclusion before the election. This is Reids fault along with a number of other legislative problems over the last few years. In reflection, Obama paid a stiff price for some much needed legislation. I think not passing the bill is more costly than passing it. He got what he could. I wish we could have the right people in place to totally reform the tax issues.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 01:10 pm
@BillW,
Obama has no back bone; he bends too often to the GOP who is out to destroy him anywhos. If this legislation did not pass, who do you think would have gotten blamed for it? All those people who need the extension in their unemployment and the middle class who needs tax cuts would have destroyed the GOP during the next election cycle.

Bending to the GOP only means our deficit continues to grow at a pace that is not sustainable for any country. Look at Greece, Ireland, Spain, and Italy. They're all bankrupt. We're next in line, and that's more costly for the future of this country.
BillW
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 01:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I agree totally, and, every little "bend' hurts Obama in my respect to him. But, he moved this bill toward as much stimulous as he possibly could. Without the legislation, I'm afraid that the impact could have lead to a disasterous double dip recession. Of course, advantage is on my side - can't prove a negative, so I must be right Wink

Also, without the bill, I would have lost about another $4 - 5,000 for next year. That would be a total of approximately $8-10,000 over the last month from him. It is very difficult right now and every little bit helps.

It is amazing to think that the very wealthy will be now getting upwards of $75,000 and more (value of my home) every year. My compromise was to raise the bottom bar from $250,000 to $500,000. This would have given every single one of them a "raise" of $7,500. More than adequate for anyone.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 03:18 pm
Quote:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/254468/twelve-great-reasons-love-great-country-bill-bennett?page=1
William J. Bennett &
John T. E. Cribb
December 6, 2010 4:00 A.M.
Twelve Great Reasons to Love a Great Country
An excerpt from the new revised edition of The American Patriot’s Almanac.
Why should Americans love their country? Here are a dozen good reasons to be grateful and proud to live here.

(page 1 0f 2)
1. The United States was the first nation in history created out of the belief that people should govern themselves. As James Madison said, this country’s birth was “a revolution which has no parallel in the annals of human society.” The U.S. constitution is the oldest written national constitution in operation. It has been a model for country after country as democracy has spread across the continents.

2. America really is the land of the free. There are large parts of the world where people can’t say what they think, learn what they’d like, or even dress the way they want. There are places where people spend years in jail or disappear if they question their rulers. Less than half of the world’s population lives in countries where people are truly free. In this nation, as George Washington put it, the love of liberty is interwoven with every ligament of American hearts.

3. No other country has done a better job of establishing equal rights for all citizens. Certainly there have been times when the United States has fallen tragically short of its founding principles. But especially in recent decades, no country has worked harder to eliminate discrimination and protect the rights of minorities. There are plenty of nations where people’s ethnicity, religion, or gender defines them as second-class citizens. In contrast, America has been a pioneer in striving toward the ideal that all are created equal.

4. This is the place where dreams can come true. U.S. newspapers are full of stories that read almost like fairy tales: the son of a laborer who grows up to be a doctor, the stay-at-home mom who turns a hobby into a flourishing business, the immigrant who becomes a movie star and governor. The United States has long been the country people flock to for the chance to make better lives. No other country has built a sturdier ladder for people to climb to success.

5. We enjoy one of the world’s highest standards of living. Americans live longer, have better health, and enjoy safer and more comfortable lives than the vast majority of the world’s people. Ours is one of the most prosperous nations in history. U.S. companies provide some of the best jobs in the world. They have also built countless hospitals, libraries, and parks; created great universities; filled museums with works of art; found cures for diseases; and improved human life in countless ways.

6. No other country has welcomed and united so many people from so many different shores. From its beginnings, the U.S. has been the world’s great melting pot. Never before have so many people from different backgrounds, races, nationalities, and religions lived and worked together so peacefully. In no other nation has the spirit of cooperation and brotherhood accomplished more than it has in the United States.

7. The U.S. military is the greatest defender of freedom in the world. Twice in the 20th century, the United States led the way in saving the world from tyranny — first from the Axis powers, then from Soviet totalitarianism. Throughout history, other superpowers have used armies to conquer territory and build empires by force. America, with its unrivaled military, has chosen a different course. The United States has liberated more people from tyranny than any other nation in history.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/254468/twelve-great-reasons-love-great-country-bill-bennett?page=2
Twelve Great Reasons to Love a Great Country
(Page 2 of 2)
8. America is a world leader in scholarship and invention. The United States is home to the world’s finest collection of universities and research institutions. Name just about any subject — from ancient philosophy to quantum physics — and chances are good that leading authorities work here. The record of American inventions and discoveries goes on and on, from the mechanical reaper to the microchip. American medical research facilities are among the best in the world. The United States leads the world in space exploration. The computer revolution started here.

9. Americans are among the most generous people on earth. The United States has built the most extraordinary collection of charitable, philanthropic, and civic organizations in the world, and this country is the planet’s largest source of humanitarian aid. American government programs and private giving constitute one of the greatest efforts to help people in history. In 2009, Americans donated more than $300 billion to charities. When disasters strike overseas, Americans are among the first to offer help and support.

10. The United States is the world’s greatest marketplace for the free exchange of ideas and information. In some countries, governments shut down newspapers and broadcast stations they don’t like, and limit access to the Internet. Freedom of expression and freedom of the press are bedrock principles of American democracy. The staggering volume of information traded here every day — via books, newspapers, magazines, the Internet, TV, and radio — makes this country the liveliest center of thought and debate in history.

11. This nation possesses an amazing capacity for self-renewal. Time and again, Americans have been able to address the country’s problems and flaws. Think of those Americans at Philadelphia in 1787 who devised the most miraculous political document in history just as the young nation seemed to be falling apart. Or think of those Americans in the civil-rights movement prodding the country to right the wrongs of segregation. The American people have a genius for self-correction. Sometimes it takes a while, but in the end we find our way.

12. America is a nation that looks to God for guidance. It was founded to be a place where all are free to worship, or not to worship, as they please. Amid a diverse array of beliefs, the vast majority of Americans draw strength from faith in God’s goodness and wisdom. “In God We Trust” is our national motto, and we have never had a president who has been reluctant to say, “Let us pray.”

0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 05:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I don't think that is accurate. Obama stuck to his agenda for a rather long time during the past two plus years, giving ground only in the face of rather well organized and strong opposition. His current situation requires that he now begins to deal with a very strong Republican majority in the House and a now much narrower Democrat majority in the Senate. We are a democracy after all and a strong minority has both rights anbd political power. Would you have preferred that he imitate Hugo Chavez and attempt rule by decree?

One can also make the contrary case that he has been too antagonistic to the political opposition, and has foolishly pandered to elements of his base by publicly demonizing them - making enemies for no detectable gain at all. I suspect that some Supreme Court justices may harbor some ill feelings towards him as a result of his unprecedented and rather stupid, childish public criticism of an equal and independent body of our government during his last State of the Union speech. He certainly wasn't wimpish then, though in my view he didn't demonstrate much in the way of character and understanding either.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 06:11 pm
@georgeob1,
On a somewhat but not by much unrelated note, Georgeob:
The new Senate will have 53 Dems and 47 Repubs while the House will have 193 Dems vs 242 Repubs.
We have seen in the recent Senate that the Repubs have adopted a policy of filibustering or threatening to filibuster just about every Dem proposal. Ending a filibuster takes 60 votes, not 50.
This is probably not new, but I wonder if you think this is likely to continue and perhaps become the new norm.
Thank you.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 06:51 pm
@realjohnboy,
rjb wrote:
Quote:
We have seen in the recent Senate that the Repubs have adopted a policy of filibustering or threatening to filibuster just about every Dem proposal.


It's more than recent; it goes back to when Obama became president. The GOP has done anything and everything to defeat any legislation coming out of the democratic congress.

There were several GOP members of congress who voiced their position to defeat Obama's administration, and they have been successful.

I'm not sure where georgeob has been the past two years, but I'm seeing a different kind of GOP than the one he sees. He calls it politics as usual, but it's much more than that.

All the while, Obama has moved right of center, and is now bending to get legislation approved by the GOP.

Obama's going to see tougher times beginning next month.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 07:03 pm
@realjohnboy,
Hard to predict the future. Both parties are proficient, and well-practised, at controlling the agendas of both houses of Congress or by stopping it, as the case at hand may require. Whether this occurs by the action of the Speaker or Majority leader in setting debate and amendment rules for pending legislation; by committee chairmen in drafting legislation or calling hearings; or by fillibustering legislation otherwise ready for a vote - the objectives are the same, i.e. using all available power and parliamentary procedure to get what they want. I don't see any difference in the behavior of either party in this area - though it certainly suited the needs of the Democrats to amplify the chronic Republican opposition to what truly was a remarkable left-wing legislative agenda during the past two years in any way they could.

Given the results of the recent election, the general public doesn't appear to share the indignation of Progressive Democrats over the defeat of key elements of an agenda that apparently many of them thought they were some entitled to advance without opposition.

I suspect we will see a lot of grandstanding by both sides in the coming two years, as they try to position themselves for success in the coming election.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 07:04 pm
I will post the link tonite when I get home, but apparently Obama is going to sign an extension of indefinite detention for the prisoners at Gitmo.
He campaigned on closing that place, promised to close it within one year of being sworn in, now here it is less then one month away ffrom 2 years.

Do the people that voted for him and support him have a problem with this, or is it business as usual for the White House?
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 07:09 pm
@mysteryman,
I suspect he sincerely wanted to close it, but has discovered that it is rather difficult to, after the fact, decide to do civilian prosecutions of the ununiformed soldiers of an international terrorist organization and get a conviction. And that was always the reason the last administration proceeded as they did - a process that Obama now appears to be imitating. I doubt that we will hear much from him about it though. Perhaps Attorney General Eric Holder will engineer pardons for them as he did for Marc Rich in the last days of the Clinton Administration.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 07:18 pm
@georgeob1,
I agree with part of that. I think that many of us - 0f whatever stripe - have qualms about Gitmo. But closing it is complicated. Obama over-promised, I think.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 07:19 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:

Do the people that voted for him and support him have a problem with this, or is it business as usual for the White House?

It's rather hard to close it when no one will take the detainees.

One can hardly blame Obama for the Republican's refusal to go along with it. They have done everything they can to prevent him from closing it or giving a trial to those there.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 07:27 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob, Are you trying to imply that when the GOP has control of the administration and congress, the democrats used the filibuster as frequently?

It started early for the GOP:

Quote:
Senate GOP Sets Filibuster Record
By: TJHalva | Comments [8] | Category: Senate | 6/19/2008 2:48:31 PM CT

I was watching coverage of the Senate on CSPAN 2 today and stumbled upon what appeared to be yet another Republican filibuster. Senator Jon Kyl (Republican Minority WHIP, Arizona) initially appeared thoughtful and intellectual until Dick Durbin (Democrat, Illinois) objected. At this point Senator Kyl took offense and went into 'Republicans are trying to be bipartisan' mode accusing the Democrats of not working across the table. Dick Durbin succumbed to Senate rules and was granted two minutes to speak until the floor was relinquished back over to the Republicans.

During Senator Durbin's speech, which actually lasted a lot less than the two minutes he was allotted, he countered Senator Kyl's points by referring to a staggering statistic; the Republicans of the US Senate have performed 77 filibusters during the current session. This count breaks the previous record of 58 filibusters previously held by the 1999-2002 Senate terms. Durbin stated, "We are asking to bring it forward for debate. If you have a better idea, put it on the floor and let's vote on it. But for the Republicans to consistently file these filibusters and object to bringing these measures forward to even debate them, and now it is a take it or leave it. The Senator from Arizona has filed, just like the minority leader did yesterday, this political get-well card which says: We will make a unanimous consent request so we are on the record wanting this. Get on the record and vote for bringing it to the floor for debate. Don't be afraid of a debate. Don't be afraid of an amendment. If you have a good idea, put it forward. Let's see if it wins or loses." [Source]

The debate on the current bill, something related to health care and reimbursing doctors for Medicare services, was then pushed under the rug by the next speaker, a Republican from Tennessee. The bottom line is the next time anybody accuses the Democrats of not getting anything done, you can look across the aisle and clearly see why the Senate approval rating is so low.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 07:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

georgeob, Are you trying to imply that when the GOP has control of the administration and congress, the democrats used the filibuster as frequently?


Evidently you didn't read my post.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 07:33 pm
@georgeob1,
You wrote:
Quote:
I don't see any difference in the behavior of either party in this area - though it certainly suited the needs of the Democrats to amplify the chronic Republican opposition to what truly was a remarkable left-wing legislative agenda during the past two years in any way they could.


Come again?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 07:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
http://media.nationaljournal.com/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=3600
Here's the latest for the last 2 congresses compared to previous ones.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 07:48 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I don't see any difference in the behavior of either party in this area


Sorry, but it's not a matter of opinion. You're factually wrong. The Republicans in both houses used parliamentary tricks - and downright rude behavior - to a greater extent than any previous minority, Dem or Republican, has done.

But, you don't even believe that Obstructionism exists, and can't define the word, so you're not exactly what one would call a voice of reason on this issue.

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 08:00 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I do know how you define the word. Obstructionism is the use of lawful and time honored parliamentary rules and united voting opposition to resist the agenda of the holy Democrat party led by the sainted trio of Obama, Reid and Pelosi.

True though: I don't think it is bad at all.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2010 08:01 pm
@parados,
I believe georgeob (and a few others) sees our politics differently than the rest of the participants on this thread.
0 Replies
 
 

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