55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 09:28 pm
@okie,
You didn't seem to get the point that was being made: that the Muslims you like to refer to as 'fascists' are culturally conservative. They have far more in common with the modern Republican party than they do the Dem party.

I'm not talking about Fascism and neither was anyone else. You brought it up because it's the conversation you wish you were having.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 09:32 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Obviously not correct, cyclops. Besides, political and economic conservatism is more important. Islamo-Fascists favor a strong state and group power and rights, not individual rights and individual responsibility. That has far more in common with the modern Democratic Party than it does with Republicans or the Tea Party movement.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 09:37 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Plus, those Muslims are RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISTS, kin to the American RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISTS who are always wrecking havoc.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 09:42 pm
@plainoldme,
Everyone has a religious fundamentalism. For some, it is the worship of government. I should also point out the religion of the modern environmental movement, which essentially worships the earth. Earth Day is part of that. Everyone has beliefs and faiths, whether you call it religion or not.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 09:49 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Everyone has a religious fundamentalism. For some, it is the worship of government. I should also point out the religion of the modern environmental movement, which essentially worships the earth. Earth Day is part of that. Everyone has beliefs and faiths, whether you call it religion or not.


Ridiculous attempt at equivocation. Do you even know what 'fundamentalism' means? It doesn't seem so.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 09:58 pm
@okie,
Stop embarrassing yourself. You have no idea what fundamentalism is. Stop your preening while you're working on not embarrassing yourself.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 10:28 pm
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics

Left–right politics

The left–right political spectrum is a common way of classifying political positions, political ideologies, or political parties along a one-dimensional political spectrum. The perspective of Left vs. Right is a dialectical interpretation of complex questions. Left-wing politics and right-wing politics are often presented as polar opposites, and although a particular individual or party may take a left-wing stance on one matter and a right-wing stance on another, the terms left and right are commonly used as if they described two globally opposed political families. In France, where the terms originated, the Left is called "the party of movement" and the Right "the party of order".

Traditionally, the Left includes progressives, social liberals, social democrats, socialists, communists and anarchists. The Right includes conservatives, reactionaries, capitalists, monarchists, nationalists and fascists.

The terms left and right are often used to spin a particular point of view rather than as simple descriptors. In modern political rhetoric, those on the Left typically emphasize their support for working people and accuse the Right of supporting the interests of the upper class, whereas those on the Right usually emphasize their support for individualism and accuse the Left of supporting collectivism. As a result, arguments about the way the words should be used often displace arguments about policy by raising emotional prejudice against a preconceived notion of what the terms mean.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 01:14 am
@BillW,
That's the reason why I've always said left-right politics is meaningless - whether it talks about individuals or politicians.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 07:58 am
Cyclo, Bill and POM: A2K's three blind mice.

http://mybadmojo.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/3_blind_mice.jpg
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 10:44 am
Hardly a day goes by without the Republicans referring to JFK's tax cut as a defense to their tax cuts for the super-rich. However, the truth is that JFK's tax cut was all of $10 billion, temporary, and was demand-side as opposed to the Republican supply-side cuts.

http://www.slate.com/id/2093947/
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 11:04 am
@okie,
Quote:
Obviously not correct, cyclops.


No, it obviously IS correct. Both radical Muslims and the Republican party share the same socially Conservative values. Both are extremely nationalistic and regularly denigrate cultures which are not their own. Both regularly discriminate against other religions and homosexuals.

Really, the two are hand in hand. You just don't want to admit the obvious similarities.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 11:30 am
@okie,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
okie wrote:
... .....


Ridiculous attempt at equivocation. Do you even know what 'fundamentalism' means? It doesn't seem so.

Cycloptichorn


Indeed.

okie wrote:
I should also point out the religion of the modern environmental movement, which essentially worships the earth. Earth Day is part of that. Everyone has beliefs and faiths, whether you call it religion or not.


Well, indeed: both of our big two churches here, the Catholic and the Evangelical Churches, join others in 200 countries worldwide to celebrate this day, namely to inspire awareness and appreciation for the Earth's natural environment as God's gifts.

That has nothing at all to do with "worshipping the earth" but with deepest Christians beliefs.
(We did similar already before, on Thanksgiving Day.)
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 11:41 am
American Conservatism in 2008 and Beyond:

Quote:
December 16, 2010
Wall Street Whitewash
By PAUL KRUGMAN

When the financial crisis struck, many people — myself included — considered it a teachable moment. Above all, we expected the crisis to remind everyone why banks need to be effectively regulated.

How naïve we were. We should have realized that the modern Republican Party is utterly dedicated to the Reaganite slogan that government is always the problem, never the solution. And, therefore, we should have realized that party loyalists, confronted with facts that don’t fit the slogan, would adjust the facts.

Which brings me to the case of the collapsing crisis commission.

The bipartisan Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission was established by law to “examine the causes, domestic and global, of the current financial and economic crisis in the United States.” The hope was that it would be a modern version of the Pecora investigation of the 1930s, which documented Wall Street abuses and helped pave the way for financial reform.

Instead, however, the commission has broken down along partisan lines, unable to agree on even the most basic points.

It’s not as if the story of the crisis is particularly obscure. First, there was a widely spread housing bubble, not just in the United States, but in Ireland, Spain, and other countries as well. This bubble was inflated by irresponsible lending, made possible both by bank deregulation and the failure to extend regulation to “shadow banks,” which weren’t covered by traditional regulation but nonetheless engaged in banking activities and created bank-type risks.

Then the bubble burst, with hugely disruptive consequences. It turned out that Wall Street had created a web of interconnection nobody understood, so that the failure of Lehman Brothers, a medium-size investment bank, could threaten to take down the whole world financial system.

It’s a straightforward story, but a story that the Republican members of the commission don’t want told. Literally.

Last week, reports Shahien Nasiripour of The Huffington Post, all four Republicans on the commission voted to exclude the following terms from the report: “deregulation,” “shadow banking,” “interconnection,” and, yes, “Wall Street.”

When Democratic members refused to go along with this insistence that the story of Hamlet be told without the prince, the Republicans went ahead and issued their own report, which did, indeed, avoid using any of the banned terms.

That report is all of nine pages long, with few facts and hardly any numbers. Beyond that, it tells a story that has been widely and repeatedly debunked — without responding at all to the debunkers.

In the world according to the G.O.P. commissioners, it’s all the fault of government do-gooders, who used various levers — especially Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored loan-guarantee agencies — to promote loans to low-income borrowers. Wall Street — I mean, the private sector — erred only to the extent that it got suckered into going along with this government-created bubble.

It’s hard to overstate how wrongheaded all of this is. For one thing, as I’ve already noted, the housing bubble was international — and Fannie and Freddie weren’t guaranteeing mortgages in Latvia. Nor were they guaranteeing loans in commercial real estate, which also experienced a huge bubble.

Beyond that, the timing shows that private players weren’t suckered into a government-created bubble. It was the other way around. During the peak years of housing inflation, Fannie and Freddie were pushed to the sidelines; they only got into dubious lending late in the game, as they tried to regain market share.

But the G.O.P. commissioners are just doing their job, which is to sustain the conservative narrative. And a narrative that absolves the banks of any wrongdoing, that places all the blame on meddling politicians, is especially important now that Republicans are about to take over the House.

Last week, Spencer Bachus, the incoming G.O.P. chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, told The Birmingham News that “in Washington, the view is that the banks are to be regulated, and my view is that Washington and the regulators are there to serve the banks.”

He later tried to walk the remark back, but there’s no question that he and his colleagues will do everything they can to block effective regulation of the people and institutions responsible for the economic nightmare of recent years. So they need a cover story saying that it was all the government’s fault.

In the end, those of us who expected the crisis to provide a teachable moment were right, but not in the way we expected. Never mind relearning the case for bank regulation; what we learned, instead, is what happens when an ideology backed by vast wealth and immense power confronts inconvenient facts. And the answer is, the facts lost.


It is impossible to overstate how intellectually bankrupt the modern Conservative movement is. There isn't even a pretense at moderation or a search for the truth in any situation. Just a never-ending stream of ideology with zero facts to back it up, and cries of 'socialist!' towards anyone who points this out.

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 12:56 pm


Why are critical thinking and the ability to apply common sense to issues not available to those on the left?
Brand WTF
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 01:54 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
This bloke seems to have some valid additional, and counterpoints to Krugman's incomplete piece.

As for the omitted terms, I'm going to try to find the context in which they were used/not used. As this writer points out neither party is clean when it comes to Wall Street complicity.

http://www.krugmaniswrong.com/
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 02:01 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

It is impossible to overstate how intellectually bankrupt the modern Conservative movement is. There isn't even a pretense at moderation or a search for the truth in any situation. Just a never-ending stream of ideology with zero facts to back it up, and cries of 'socialist!' towards anyone who points this out.

Cycloptichorn


Oh I think you have given us a pretty good example of such an overstatement right here... not to mention a fairly long stream of ideology unsupported by facts, as well a breathless cries of "conservative" at every turn.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 02:09 pm
@Brand WTF,
Brand WTF wrote:

This bloke seems to have some valid additional, and counterpoints to Krugman's incomplete piece.

As for the omitted terms, I'm going to try to find the context in which they were used/not used. As this writer points out neither party is clean when it comes to Wall Street complicity.

http://www.krugmaniswrong.com/


Sorry but that dude is a total idiot. He does nothing but spew Republican talking points in response to Krugman's economic analysis.

I wonder what points he made that you consider valid, because I just read the whole thing and I sure don't see any.

Just as an example, he writes:

Quote:
o Because the CRA, Fannie and Freddie were “encouraged” to make risky subprime loans. This happened FIRST. The effects of deregulation happened AFTER.


This is a total and 100% lie. Totally false. The CRA has nothing to do with subprime loans - at all. Not only that, but F/F had almost zero exposure to subprime loans until 2004 - the problem was already far advanced by that point. This guy doesn't have the first clue what actually went on.

Not impressed.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 02:10 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

It is impossible to overstate how intellectually bankrupt the modern Conservative movement is. There isn't even a pretense at moderation or a search for the truth in any situation. Just a never-ending stream of ideology with zero facts to back it up, and cries of 'socialist!' towards anyone who points this out.

Cycloptichorn


Oh I think you have given us a pretty good example of such an overstatement right here... not to mention a fairly long stream of ideology unsupported by facts, as well a breathless cries of "conservative" at every turn.


Lame. Is this 'no, YOU'RE ugly!' argument the best you can come up with?

Both myself and Krugman have presented extensive documentation to back up our positions on this. And I'm more than willing to keep doing so. Whereas you, as we all know, are not. Ever.

And I gotta say, accusations of presenting arguments without facts take some real balls coming from you, George. Real chutzpah.

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 02:14 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

It is impossible to overstate how intellectually bankrupt the modern Conservative movement is. There isn't even a pretense at moderation or a search for the truth in any situation. Just a never-ending stream of ideology with zero facts to back it up, and cries of 'socialist!' towards anyone who points this out.

Cycloptichorn


Oh I think you have given us a pretty good example of such an overstatement right here... not to mention a fairly long stream of ideology unsupported by facts, as well a breathless cries of "conservative" at every turn.


Yep, Cyclo and the left refuse to accept any responsibility for
their bad choices and decisions - - they always blame others.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 03:33 pm
AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/12/17/after-demanding-time-for-amendments-to-start-republicans-stall-offer-none-over-2-days/

Republicans demanded 2 days to offer amendments to the START treaty - but had no amendments and hadn't even bothered to write any.

There is zero doubt that this is obstructionism of the highest order. A waste of everyone's time and money. It's truly ridiculous.

Cycloptichorn
 

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