@H2O MAN,
It wasn't Obama's failure so much as the American people's inability to see the facts for themselves.
Most Americans think a) Obama increased income taxes, and b) blame him for the world economy - ergo, non-existence of jobs in the US.
@okie,
Quote:I would have to research this, but frankly I don't have the time to do it.
Oh, as usual you prefer to talk out of your ass and damn the facts.
Quote:
I hope my recollection is correct that the INS first handed over Elian to his uncle and family, along with guardianship, but this was later reversed by actions in the courts.
No, it isn't correct. It is you making stuff up because reality doesn't fit your narrative.
Quote:And at first, I seem to recall that Elian wanted to stay here, but the courts had him ordered back to Cuba at gunpoint
You remember the courts ordered him back at gunpoint? You seem to be out of touch with reality and the legal system okie. The courts didn't order anything to be done by gun point. The family in Florida refused to accept the court ruling and asked idiots like you to show up with guns to prevent the ruling being carried out. So, the government showed up to enforce a court order expecting people like you to act in the way you are doing now only they would be armed. And you want to blame the government for the actions of law breakers.
Quote:Anyway, at the time, I distinctly recall the opinions about this pretty much splitting down party lines, with Democrats favoring sending the kid back against his will to a communist country to be indoctrinated there and to live with a father that had never cared for him as he should have.
You have it correct that Dems and conservatives were divided. Democrats favored following the law and court rulings. You however favor illegal immigrants staying in the US. You favor ignoring the law. You favor armed response to court rulings. And you favor making up facts instead of looking at reality.
@parados,
I see no need to further belabor this issue to the ridiculous, but do you agree that Elian wanted to stay here? Why shouldn't his preference have been considered more strongly by the courts? Don't they consider the childrens' desires in custody battles here in this country? I am not a lawyer, but perhaps you are, and can answer these questions?
@okie,
Quote:I see no need to further belabor this issue to the ridiculous, but do you agree that Elian wanted to stay here? Why shouldn't his preference have been considered more strongly by the courts?
Because of the law.
Quote:Don't they consider the childrens' desires in custody battles here in this country?
Only between 2 parents and then only if the child is old enough to make the decision. Elian didn't have a parent in the US and Elian was too young under the law to make any decisions about who he wanted as guardian.
Quote:I am not a lawyer, but perhaps you are, and can answer these questions?
No, you are just an idiot with an opinion that doesn't give a damn about the law or his country unless it does what he wants it to do.
@okie,
Quote:I see no need to further belabor this issue to the ridiculous
You belabored it to the ridiculous when you started the issue okie.
You claimed Castro forced Elian back to Cuba at gunpoint. That was ridiculous and you still refuse to admit it's ridiculous.
I wonder why you won't admit that your statement was false okie? Why do you hide behind "I see no need to further belabor this issue to the ridiculous" when it is YOUR statement that started the whole thing and YOUR statement that was ridiculous. This is what you do okie. You make statement that are outright lies then you avoid any discussion of your lies or deny you even said them. Then you accuse others of being dishonest.
You might want to actually argue from facts, okie, tho I know that's not your style. You might try reading the Wikipedia article on Elian Gonzalez, for example, which has a number of interesting facts, such as: there's a male voice in the video of him which is telling him what to say; Elian says he consistently told his Miami relatives, whom he had never even seen prior to his arrival, that he wanted to go back to Cuba (which they apparently ignored); the Miami relatives made threats to the INS; and there were a number of people with criminal records who were armed and supporting the Miami family, which is one main reason they went in with intimidating force--go in in force and nothing happens, because the hotheads aren't fools enough, barely, to try something when they know beyond any doubt they will get stomped thoroughly if they do something that breaks the law--standard police procedure, so things stay quiet and violence is avoided. Not to mention that international law supported his father's case, not his relatives'. And the USSC refused to review the lower court rulings that supported his father, and the law. Rightist huff and puff all the way on your side.
Remember, okie, in these days of Google and Wikipedia, you can actually find stuff out quickly and simply, rather than relying on hearsay and faulty memory. Of course the facts usually don't support you, but that's the price one has to pay for knowledge.
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
It wasn't Obama's failure so much as the American people's inability to see the facts for themselves.
Yeah, but Obama and his democrats made no effort to fully disclose the facts... they actually worked extra hard to hide the facts from everyone.
The irony on the latest news about the GOP takeover of congress:
Quote:Republicans Hope to Ride Gains to 2012
Republicans were on the verge of capturing the House and making deep inroads into the Democrats' Senate majority following months of voter discontent over the economy and government policy.
And what exactly are they going to accomplish on our economy, and the growing deficit? I still haven't seen any solutions from them. Cutting taxes will only grow our federal debt and deficit.
They gave Obama two years to add jobs and improve the economy. How long will the American people wait for the GOP to perform? 8 years?
@MontereyJack,
Why are you libs so happy that Elian had to go back to Communist Cuba? You will probably answer to the effect that you support the law, blah blah, And I guess Janet Reno was only enforcing the law when she rolled into Waco with those tanks and turned that place into an inferno. Boy did she enforce the law!!!!
But it seems libs aren't so happy about enforcing the law when it concerns illegal immigrants, are they? Fact is, Obama's own Justice Department is defying Arizona when they try to enforce immigration laws.
How does it feel to have your hypocrisy exposed?
@okie,
okie wrote:
Why are you libs so happy that Elian had to go back to Communist Cuba?
Because liberal democrats hate Spanish speaking people of color.
@H2O MAN,
Republicans wants to close the borders to Hispanics.
@okie,
okie wrote:
Why are you libs so happy that Elian had to go back to Communist Cuba? You will probably answer to the effect that you support the law, blah blah, And I guess Janet Reno was only enforcing the law when she rolled into Waco with those tanks and turned that place into an inferno. Boy did she enforce the law!!!!
You truly are a law obeying US-citizen, okie!
okie wrote: Fact is, Obama's own Justice Department is defying Arizona when they try to enforce immigration laws.
State law above federal authority over immigration. Correct?
@okie,
Quote:Why are you libs so happy that Elian had to go back to Communist Cuba? You will probably answer to the effect that you support the law, blah blah,
One doesn't have to be happy to support the law. But without the law NO ONE will be happy. I wasn't happy about Gore v Bush but I accepted Bush as my President. Justice Stevens made a comment about that the other day. How we were divided in 2000 but came together after the election and just as divided in 2008 but within 4 months people were showing up at protests carrying guns. Obviously, it's the libs that support the law well enough to abide by elections while your side resorts to threats and violence.
Quote:And I guess Janet Reno was only enforcing the law when she rolled into Waco with those tanks and turned that place into an inferno. Boy did she enforce the law!!!!
So.. you support the killing of Federal agents when executing a search warrant? While the outcome was not good, Reno and the tanks didn't start the inferno. That was started by the law breakers that refused to give themselves up.
Quote:But it seems libs aren't so happy about enforcing the law when it concerns illegal immigrants, are they? Fact is, Obama's own Justice Department is defying Arizona when they try to enforce immigration laws.
It's so much easier when you just ignore facts, isn't it okie? Obama has deported MORE illegals per year than Bush ever did. But it's easier to just claim he isn't "enforcing the law" when he is clearly enforcing it MORE than Bush ever did.
@talk72000,
Americans want the borders closed to illegal aliens, most of them happen to be Mexican crossing our southern border.
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:
Americans want the borders closed to illegal aliens, most of them happen to be Mexican crossing our southern border.
Obama has ignored this worsening problem and liberals applaud him for it.
Four Americans Killed in Separate Attacks in Border City, Mexican Authorities Say
@H2O MAN,
H2OMAN, have you seen yet the report that mental health staff was coercing the mentally disabled to vote in a Minnesota county, even filling out their ballots for them? There is not an indication yet of which way they were being made to vote, but I am going to guess it was for Democrats. It would fit their pattern. If I am wrong, I will acknowledge it, but I am betting its liberals manufacturing votes from the mentally disabled. This might be a new way they have discovered to manufacture votes? But who knows how many elections that had this going on, but just now it has been discovered?
"Minnesota County Investigating Voter Fraud Allegations Involving Mentally Disabled"
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/02/minn-county-investigating-voter-fraud-allegations-involving-mentally-disabled/
@okie,
Both sides have been guilty of voter fraud in the past, but it's overwhelmingly the liberal democrats
that are consistently perpetrating large scale, wide-spread voter fraud. You just can't trust liberal
democrats, especially Obama democrats.
@H2O MAN,
What would be your bets as to who is doing what in this case, H2OMAN?
@okie,
okie wrote:
What would be your bets as to who is doing what in this case, H2OMAN?
I know nothing more than what you posted, but my money is on Obama democrats.
