AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

The Democrats are a centrist to right party.

If any statement is more out of touch than that one, please let me know, anyone.

2 Replies

@okie,

Quote:

If any statement is more out of touch than that one, please let me know, anyone.

okie is a handsome man and an elegant writer whose sophistication and erudition never cease to amaze.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

Quote:
If any statement is more out of touch than that one, please let me know, anyone.

okie is a handsome man and an elegant writer whose sophistication and erudition never cease to amaze.

Thank you, pom, that is one of your most intelligent posts!!!!

Just to clarify for others, I wrote that brilliant and accurate question in response to this quote of yours:

Quote:

The Democrats are a centrist to right party.

0 Replies

@okie,

The Democrats certainly are similar to most conservative and centrist parties. In Europe and elsewhere.

But in this case, okie always refers to the US situation. And, of course, he compares foreign parties to his view as well.

But if others do so .... see his responses ....

3 Replies

@talk72000,

In every western nation, even if the health care is free for everybody, those with the money to afford it can pay for more specialized treatment, more extensive tests, and better medical care then those without money.

Why do you seem to think otherwise?

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

Quote:

Then, I think of teenaged girls from families of drug addicts, becoming pregnant and raising their babies in less than laudable family situations. I think of a young woman I once worked with who became pregnant by a man she hated but had the child. Why anyone with reason would raise the child of a man she hated is beyond me

So you are blaming the child for the sins of the father?
Did the woman you speak of love that child, did she feed that child, provide for that child, raise that child to be respectful, and was she a good parent?

Or, did she ignore, beat, starve, mistreat, and otherwise abuse that child both mentally and physically?
Judging by what you just wrote, if she raised that child right that makes her a better person then you are.
After all, you said...

Quote:

Why anyone with reason would raise the child of a man she hated is beyond me

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

In every western nation, even if the health care is free for everybody, those with the money to afford it can pay for more specialized treatment, more extensive tests, and better medical care then those without money.

Why do you seem to think otherwise?

Indeed, we have additional private insurances - that's for all those, who aren't in the mandatory insurance.

The reason is to be found in the history of the mandatory system, dating back to the 1880's.

0 Replies

There's a developing story right now involving the US Chamber of Commerce, and the fact that they are systematically and regularly funneling contributions from foreign sources and governments into US Elections.

I mention this, because there was some Conservative interest in looking into the books of the Obama campaign, and all sorts of invective thrown around regarding the illegality of said actions. Will the same Conservatives now demand an investigation of the Chamber of Commerce?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@talk72000,

Quote:

You forget that it is the Government job to care for the welfare of its citizens as mentioned in the US Constitution.

Quote:

Quote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare], and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Well, almost. But actually the U.S. Constitution is a short (enumerated) list of responsibilities the government has towards its citizens. This list is followed by another very short list which grants powers to the government which may be used by the government, in the context and only in the context of those few enumerated responsibilities, to fulfill those few responsibilities the government has. Further, all power of the government is rooted in the people. The Constitution was written specifically to protect individuals from government incursion into their liberty/freedom. Note the Preamble's wording: "...promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves...”. The conditional operator is AND. It is not OR. So, when the general welfare conflicts with individual liberty red flags are set and it is only on rare important occasions and with much deliberation that individual liberties are to be given up.

The liberty/freedom concept is only one side of a two sided coin. The other side is personal responsibility. The founders, of course, realized this. They also realized that each individual's 'pursuit of happiness' would necessarily entail different individual paths towards such success. Thus they provided us a Constitution that would enable the greatest amount of individual freedom/liberty to accommodate these individual paths.

As Okie has stated, many have used the General Welfare clause (and the commerce clause) to 'improve' our lives. For years I never thought that people could actually believe that the founders put that clause in the Constitution so that the government's responsibility towards its citizens would be, eventually, all encompassing. But, it does seem to have come to pass that many are now led to believe it is the government's responsibility to take care of them. This is simply wrong. The Constitution's 'general welfare' was not meant to convey that its citizens should, generally, be on welfare. Aside from the fact that this would be economically impossible, Madison, in Federalist 10 on the subject of taking earned wealth from some and giving it to those who did not earn it, labeled such projects "wicked". Wicked Indeed.

JM

2 Replies

@JamesMorrison,

James, I agree totally. Liberals have taken the general welfare clause as justification for almost any socialist or even fascist like policy. In fact, if Karl Marx was alive and living in the United States, it would not be too much of a stretch to predict that he would be using the general welfare clause to justify his particular brand of economic and political system. I do not know if it is intentional distortion by liberals or if it is just a naivity as a result of a very poor educational system in this country?

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

There's a developing story right now involving the US Chamber of Commerce, and the fact that they are systematically and regularly funneling contributions from foreign sources and governments into US Elections.

I mention this, because there was some Conservative interest in looking into the books of the Obama campaign, and all sorts of invective thrown around regarding the illegality of said actions. Will the same Conservatives now demand an investigation of the Chamber of Commerce?

Cycloptichorn

My opinion is, bring it on, but let us not play favorites here, let us look at Obama's contributions (and the Soros money) just as intensely as we do the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. And as suspicioned, this is probably a case of the pot calling the kettle black. If you don't believe it, read the following. By the way, if anyone wonders who the "pot" is, check out the crackpot, George Soros, the guy that thinks he owns the Democratic Party. After all, he paid for it.
http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2010/20101006142655.aspx

"What do you do when one of your largest donors is a naturalized American citizen that was once convicted of insider trading in Europe? You look around Washington, D.C. for institutions you disagree with and go after their contributors"

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It seems President Obama is honing his negotiating skills, perhaps he is preparing for another round with the Iranian mullahs?

JM

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter,

I thank you for your posts that bring rationality and experience to this forum. It is so nice to read something written by a person with a sophisticated and accurate point of view after all the isolationist drivel here that has nothing to do with reality.

0 Replies

@mysteryman,

You should be ashamed of yourself for writing that non-sensical . . . make that bordering on psychotic . . . piece of tripe in response to my statement about abortion sometimes being the more humane and sensible choice. It is clear that you and logic are not acquainted.

1 Reply

@JamesMorrison,

And, if there is any group that refuses to take personal responsibility, it is the American right. That statement that they make is the lie they wish to repeat until it is believed. PErsonal responsibility is and always has been the bailiwick of the left. The lie is the first cousin of the one george bush told at the beginning of his first campaign: that he is a compassionate conservative.

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Two pieces in today's news . . . one from NPR and the other from Yahoo . . . demonstrate how insane the American Right is.

The first was from NPR's Morning Edition and dealt with that one woman industry to create material for comics who is running for the Senate out of Delaware: christine o'donnell.

You are all adults. If you are interested, you can google NPR and click on today's Morning Edition. Some totally deluded woman spoke of o'donnell being "young." Right.

The other is here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101007/ap_on_re/us_rel_southern_baptists_yoga

It is with great sadness that I remember the bright hope that so many older people I knew held for the US during the 1960s, when they saw an age of intellectualism, freedom, science and literacy dawning. Why we allowed the Right to drag us into stupidity, slavery, pseudo-religion and illiteracy is beyond me.

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Good Grief! Even the presidential seal is now so forlorn that it has decided to Jump Ship!

JM

2 Replies

@JamesMorrison,

Letterman did a good piece on the seal last night. He said that after it fell off, 'they' found Obama's birth certificate behind it.

Letterman may or may not be a liberal. However, laughing at one's self and satirizing all politicians as Letterman does (in a long ago interview conducted by Ted Koppel, Letterman described the two candidates for president in 1980 as "silly men." This was prompted by a request by one to appear on his show and do comedy.) is a necessary, normal and healthy part of life.

1 Reply

Boy, I must be a powerful threat to the righties! They vote down my posts as soon as I make them. Wonder how many sock puppets there are and how they keep all the email addys necessary to support those puppets straight! Drunk

0 Replies

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

Letterman did a good piece on the seal last night. He said that after it fell off, 'they' found Obama's birth certificate behind it.

Letterman may or may not be a liberal. However, laughing at one's self and satirizing all politicians as Letterman does (in a long ago interview conducted by Ted Koppel, Letterman described the two candidates for president in 1980 as "silly men." This was prompted by a request by one to appear on his show and do comedy.) is a necessary, normal and healthy part of life.

This reminds me of the fight in Florida over how many votes Gore got. The story said that, when Bush got his colonoscopy, the surgeon found five votes for Gore.

1 Reply

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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