55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
plainoldme
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 07:41 am
@okie,
Quote:
Conservatism is firmly rooted in reality, reason, and rational thinking, whereas liberalism springs from emotion.


If conservatism were rooted in those things, then there never would have been Jim Crow laws, there would not have been the Great Depression and today's economy would be smaller but much healthier and that great subcontinent of plastic that floats in the Pacific would not exist.

Conservatism in America is about enriching the rich; deliberately keeping the proles in their place and license as opposed to freedom. It is a . . . here, I must confess to nearly having been lost for words as American conservatism is not a philosophy nor a point of view but . . . mode of operation that is based on maintaining the status quo and performing evil acts (sending jobs overseas; destroying manufacturing; lying; denying rights to minorities; destroying the environment).
plainoldme
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 07:44 am
@plainoldme,
My first step toward embracing liberalism was due to Jim Crow laws.
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 10:24 am
Quote:
Republican And Tea Party Voters United Means Mr. Obama Defeated
Posted: 22 Sep 2010 06:36 AM PDT

So says Haley Barbour in an Op-Ed in the WSJ yesterday. He’s right, of course, but he walks a fine line in this piece and comes dangerously close to conflating “Tea Party” with “Republican Party” and it’s worth reminding Mr. Barbour that these two things are not one and the same.

Tea party voters are not only motivated by the effect these terrible policies are having on them—they are worried about America’s future. They fear that their children and grandchildren won’t inherit the same country they inherited from their parents and grandparents. What they know with certainty is that future generations will be saddled with paying back the trillions in debt that the Obama administration and Congress are running up with so little positive result.

Replace “tea party” with “Republican” in every instance above, and each description would remain totally accurate. On the issues foremost in voters’ minds—the economy, jobs, spending, taxes, debt and deficits—the overwhelming majority of tea party voters and Republican voters are in strong agreement.

No, Mr. Barbour, NOT in every instance….only in “many” instances sir.
The Tea Party was born in the ashes of a Government that has failed the American people. That Government consists of both Democrats AND Republicans, and the Tea Party has made clear through some of its choices of candidates that they care about the matters at hand, not necessarily the letter after their names.

Smaller Government, less spending, fundamental tax reform, and the return of individual liberties and freedom…these are the things the Tea Party movement fights for. Regardless party affiliation, the base word in “Tea Party” is TEA, not PARTY, and (as with the reason for the original revolt against the King and Parliament of England that gave the movement its inspiration and its name) stands for the principles of the Founding Fathers in demanding accountability from our representatives in Washington. Barbour is right to suggest many of these things are shared by Republicans…but clearly not all Republicans agree.

It is fortunate that Barbour finds himself watching the Tea Party movement from a position of sharing most of its core values, and it’s expedient for him to encourage Republicans to join forces with them. They are not, however, one and the same and each of the men and women hoping for our donation dollars and our vocal support and ultimately our vote would be well reminded that these will only come after proving themselves worthy.

A reminder to all the Politicians out there courting favor with a grassroots movement like no other in recent memory: you have forgotten who works for whom ladies and gentlemen, but we will remember in November.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 10:26 am
@ican711nm,
Quote:
He’s right, of course, but he walks a fine line in this piece and comes dangerously close to conflating “Tea Party” with “Republican Party” and it’s worth reminding Mr. Barbour that these two things are not one and the same.


Yes, they are. Nobody buys the bullshit that they aren't.

The 'tea party' isn't a party. There is no party organization, no platform, no fund raising on a national level, no nothing. It's just a way for Republicans to pretend that they aren't republican.

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 10:31 am
Quote:
The GOP’s “Pledge to America”
Posted: 22 Sep 2010 04:25 PM PDT

All week we’ve been hearing about the GOP’s plans to release a legislative agenda for the next congress should they take back control of the House after this midterm election cycle. The big announcement and press conference will be held tomorrow at 10:00am Eastern time but in preparation we’ve obtained the final draft and bullet points for your perusal.

The Pledge starts with the following paragraph :
America is more than a country.
America is an idea – an idea that free people can govern themselves, that government’s powers are derived from the consent of the governed, that each of us is endowed by their Creator with the unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. America is the belief that any man or woman can – given economic, poitical, and religious liberty – advance themselves, their families, and the common good.

America is an inspiration to those who yearn to be free and have the ability and the dignity to determine their own destiny. Whenever the agenda of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to institute a new governing agenda and set a different course.These first principles were proclaimed in the Declaration of Independence, enshrined in the Constitution, and have endured through hard sacrifice and commitment by generations of Americans.

The legislative agenda put forth, at first glance, seems right in live with what movement activists have been clambering for by tackling the issues of jobs, limiting the size of government, reading bills and making sure they adhere to the Constitution, and begin repealing bad legislation that has been disastrous for the country.

Time, and the way these bills are written, will be the ultimate test… look for Dave “haystack” Poff’s upcoming opinion piece on the GOP’s “Pledge to America.” Meanwhile, please find the legislative bullet points and full 21 page pledge below:

Jobs:
- Stop job-killing tax hikes
- Allow small businesses to take a tax deduction equal to 20 percent of their income
- Require congressional approval for any new federal regulation that would add to the deficit
- Repeal small business mandates in the new health care law.

Cutting Spending:
- Repeal and Replace health care
- Roll back non-discretionary spending to 2008 levels before TARP and stimulus (will save $100 billion in first year alone)
- Establish strict budget caps to limit federal spending going forward
- Cancel all future TARP payments and reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

Reforming Congress:
- Will require that every bill have a citation of constitutional authority
- Give members at least 3 days to read bills before a vote

Defense:
- Provide resources to troops
- Fund missile defense
- Enforce sanctions in Iran
GOP Pledge to America
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 10:34 am
@Cycloptichorn,
It's obvious right wingers are blind to their own party politics. They can't see why Sarah Palin is one of their major rabble rousers for the Tea Party.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 10:51 am
@plainoldme,
?????
Are you seriously trying to say that conservatives are to blame for the depression?
Can you provide any evidence that supports that?
Or is your hatred for anything conservative causing you to blame everything on conservatives?
The trash in the Pacific Ocean didnt get there under only conservative administrations, the liberals/dems helped also.

cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 11:06 am
@okie,
It only proves your computer is as empty as you are. That link was taken directly (copied and pasted) from the web site.

Try this link; FOX admits to erroneous reporting. http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/6166
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 11:08 am
@mysteryman,
For one, mm, it's not a depression. Nobody has called it a depression.
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 11:14 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
I studied journalism as an undergraduate and worked as a journalist. I was taught how to decipher lies in my ENG 101 class. Media education is no longer taught, so, in the near future, there will be a great many people like you who are easily duped. Fox News is so biased that it only shows on the right side of the screen in most homes.

It is time for you to reread Nineteen Eighty-Four and compare the situation described there to your own thought processes, those of okie and the Tea Totalitarians.

(1) Perhaps you were "taught how to decipher lies in [your] ENG 101 class." But it is clear from your maniacal posts that you did not learn "how to decipher lies."

(2) I do not get my news exclusively from Fox News. I get almost all of my news from other sources for example:

Quote:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2051527/posts
Partial History of U.S. Federal Income Tax Rates
Highest and lowest Income Tax Rates 1971 to 2009
1971-1981: minimum = 14%; maximum = 70% [CARTER 1977-1981]
1982-1986: minimum = 11%; maximum = 50% [REAGAN 1981-1989]
1987-1987: minimum = 11%; maximum = 38.5%
1988-1990: minimum = 15%; maximum = 33% [BUSH41 1989-1993]
1991-1992: minimum = 15%; maximum = 31%
1993-2000: minimum = 15%; maximum = 39.6% [CLINTON 1993-2001]
2001-2001: minimum = 15%; maximum = 39.1% [BUSH43 2001-2009]
2002-2002: minimum = 10%; maximum = 38.6%
2003-2009: minimum = 10%; maximum = 35%
2009-2010: minimum = 10%; maximum = 35%[OBAMA 2001-2010]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/pdf/hist.pdf
Year.......FEDERAL RECEIPTS FINAL FULL YEAR OF TERM
1980......$0.517 trillion [CARTER]
1988….…$0.909 trillion [REAGAN]
1992.......$1.091 trillion [BUSH41]
2000......$2.025 trillion [CLINTON]
2008......$2.521 trillion [BUSH43]
2010.......$2,931[OBAMA] (current estimate for year not end of term)

Year.......FEDERAL OUTLAYS FINAL FULL YEAR OF TERM
1980.......$0.591 trillion [CARTER]
1988….….$1.064 trillion [REAGAN]
1992........$1,.382 trillion [BUSH41]
2000.......$1.789 trillion [CLINTON]
2008.......$2,931 trillion [BUSH43]
2010........$3,399 trillion [OBAMA] (current estimate for year not end of term)

Year………FEDERAL DEFICITS
1980.......$0.074 trillion [CARTER]
1988….….$0.155 trillion [REAGAN]
1992........$0.291 trillion [BUSH41]
2000.......SURPLUS $0.236 trillion [CLINTON]
2008.......$0.410 trillion [BUSH43]
2010........$0.160 trillion [OBAMA] (current estimate for year not end of term)

Year………GROSS FEDERAL DEBT
1980.......$0.909 trillion [CARTER]
1988….….$2.601 trillion [REAGAN]
1992........$4.002 trillion [BUSH41]
2000.......$5.629 trillion [CLINTON]
2008.......$9.654 trillion [BUSH43]
2010.......$10.954 trillion [OBAMA] (current estimate for year not end of term)

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt
Year……TOTAL US CIVIL EMPLOYMENT
1980……………..99 million [CARTER]
1988…………… 115 million [REAGAN]
1992…………….118 million [BUSH41]
2000……………137 million [CLINTON]
2007………..….146 million [BUSH43]
2008………….. 145 million [BUSH43]
2009,……….....140 million [OBAMA]
2010.……………139 million [OBAMA] (as of August 2010 and not final year of term)

Year.…….PERCENT OF CIVILIAN POPULATION EMPLOYED
1980…………………………………….59.2 [CARTER]
1988…………………………………….62.3 [REAGAN]
1992…………………………………….61.5 [BUSH41]
2000…………………………………….64.4 [CLINTON]
2007…………………………………….63.0 [BUSH43]
2008…………………………………….62.2 [BUSH43]
2009…………………………………….59.3 [OBAMA]
2010…………………………………….58.5 [OBAMA] (as of August 2010 and not final year of term)

PRESIDENT BARACH OBAMA HAS UNLAWFULLY:
Quote:

http://www.altavista.com/web/results?fr=altavista&itag=ody&q=REASONS+FOR+IMPEACHING+BARACK+OBAMA+&kgs=0&kls=0
http://www.amorian.org/2009/09/06/the-big-list-of-reasons-to-impeach-barack-obama/

(1) taken private property from those persons and from those organizations who have lawfully earned it, and given it to those persons and organizations who have not lawfully earned it.

(2) exercised the authority of his office to take private property for public use in violation of the Fifth Amendment of the United States Constitution, which guarantees to the People that “private property shall not be taken for public use without just compensation,” and without “due process of law.”

(3) interfered with the management of private companies for the purpose of achieving government control of them, in violation of the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution.

(4) interfered with the economic rights of the people by imposing unreasonable impairments in the fulfillment of their intended contractual obligations, and their ability to enter into such contracts.

(5) attempted to change our fundamental economic system from one governed by the rule of law to one governed by presidential dictate.

(6) signed an unconstitutional health care bill that is not authorized by any power of Congress enumerated in the Constitution, not even by a very expansive reading of the power to regulate commerce among the several states.

(7) signed an unconstitutional health care bill that violates the Tenth Amendment by requiring state governments to force their citizens to purchase medical insurance they do not want to purchase.

(8) signed an unconstitutional health care bill that violates the Ninth Amendment by forcing state governments to force their citizens to be denied rights that are retained by the people.

(9) used public money to purchase private companies.

(10) given our public money to a foreign state to finance their state-run oil company while refusing to allow us to develop our own oil resources.

(11) violated the balance of powers among the Congress, the Judiciary, and the Presidency by appointing, without congressional approval, so called Czars with far reaching powers who are accountable to no one but himself.

(12) funded his election campaign with foreign contributions.

(13) permitted the justice department to implement a policy to not prosecute any civil rights or voting rights violations if perpetrated by a black or blacks against a white or whites.


FROM THE CONSTITUTION OF THE USA
Quote:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

Article II. Section 1. The President shall, …
Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Article II. Section 4. The President … shall be removed from office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Article I. Section 8.
The Congress shall have power

To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

Quote:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html
The Bill of Rights (1791)

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

(3) From George Orwell:
George Orwell in NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR, PART III, Chapter III, wrote:

http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79n/chap20.html
[O'Brien said,] There is no way in which the Party can be overthrown. The rule of the Party is forever. Make that the starting point of your thoughts.'

He came closer to the bed. 'For ever!' he repeated. 'And now let us get back to the question of "how" and "why". You understand well enough how the Party maintains itself in power. Now tell me why we cling to power. What is out motive? Why should we want power? Go on, speak,' he added as Winston remained silent.

[O'Brien said,] 'The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you [Winston] begin to understand me?'

George Orwell in NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR, PART III, Chapter III, wrote:

http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79n/chap20.html
The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.


talk72000
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 11:29 am
@ican711nm,
Massagato is here.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 11:32 am
@cicerone imposter,
I beg to differ, I was responding to POM's post, and this is what she said...

Quote:
If conservatism were rooted in those things, then there never would have been Jim Crow laws, there would not have been the Great Depression and today's economy would be smaller but much healthier


So, you need to remind her its not a depression, not me.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 11:33 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I agree, cyclo. The Tea Totalitarians are a front, raised by a Republican claque that has gathered up the naive and those who suffer from a vague, general malaise, perhaps, a mild depression.

There is, however, at least a handful of salaried people behind the Tea Totalitarians. I wonder how they are paid.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 11:36 am
@mysteryman,
Listen, sugar, what sort of regulations were in place to reign in the financial industry in the first twenty years of this century? Hmmm? Do I hear an answer?

No, because you haven't got one. You just like to perform demagoguery here on a meaningless forum, under a fake name, hiding behind a monkey mask

You aren't stupid. You just act that way.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 11:36 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
My first step toward embracing liberalism was due to Jim Crow laws.

You fail to understand that Jim Crow laws were enacted by Democrats that are today more accurately characterized as Leftist Liberals.

You fail to understand that President Lyndon Johnson, while a Democrat President, obtained a majority of the Republicans in Congress to vote for his anti descrimination laws, because he could not obtain a majority of the Democrats in Congress to vote for his anti descrimination laws.

You fail to understand that the primary objective of Conservatives is rescuing and securing the rule of law under the Lawfully Amended Constitution of the USA

You fail to understand that the primary objective of Leftist Liberals is the decrease and eventual replacement of the rule of law under the Lawfully Amended Constitution of the USA with some form of statism.

plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 11:37 am
@cicerone imposter,
He was referring to my post in which I blamed the American right . . . the same impulse that was active against regulation in the 20s and then again after the 1980s . . . for the Great Depression.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 11:44 am
@ican711nm,
Looky, looky, looky, blind as a bat and rude as they come, ican is using big print.

I have dismantled your posts time and time again because you can't read.

Now, of course, you do not exclusively rely on Fox. That garbage about the Smith Professor, who is actually a professor at a university in Virginia, perhaps, George MAson University, was taken from Ann Colter, one of the many Republican bimbos inflicting their stupidity on this country through their big and active mouths.

You are the one poster here who is less intelligent than okie!

If you find my posts maniacal, it is because they fly about two feet over your head.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 11:45 am
@mysteryman,
Quote:

So, you need to remind her its not a depression, not me.


So, are you battling with okie and ican for the most inane post of the day?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 11:59 am
@ican711nm,
Quote:

You fail to understand that Jim Crow laws were enacted by Democrats that are today more accurately characterized as Leftist Liberals.


You mindless mass of stupidity, I fail to understand nothing. Listen, you effeminate bullying failure, repeat the following, 25 days each day, and perhaps your IQ will rise above 60:

DEMOCRATS ARE NOT LEFTISTS.

WHEN I, ICAN, WRITE LEFTIST LIBERALS, I DEMONSTRATE HOW STUPID I AM.

The Jim Crow laws were maintained BY SOUTHERN CONSERVATIVES UNTIL 1965 when federal law made it impossible to for them to treat Blacks as shamefully as they did during slavery.

Those people's children are now Republicans.
Quote:
You fail to understand that President Lyndon Johnson, while a Democrat President, obtained a majority of the Republicans in Congress to vote for his anti descrimination laws, because he could not obtain a majority of the Democrats in Congress to vote for his anti descrimination laws.


You miserable lying propagandist, the breakdown of the vote was this:

House of Representatives:
Democrats for: 152
Democrats against: 96
Republicans for: 138
Republicans against: 34

Senate:
Democrats for: 46
Democrats against: 21
Republicans for: 27
Republicans against: 6


It is true that all Southern Democrats voted against the Act but, AT THAT TIME, BOTH PARTIES HAD LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE WINGS.

Now, there are just centrist Democrats and rightwing Republicans.

You also fail to recognize that the over-riding talent of LBJ was to persuade people to align with him.

FURTHERMORE, ALL OF THOSE CIVIL RIGHTS WORKERS WHO INVESTED SO MUCH TIME . . . AND, IN SOME CASES, THEIR LIVES . . . TO THE CAUSE WERE THE REAL LEFTISTS. That is something a little worm like you would never admit.


Quote:
You fail to understand that the primary objective of Leftist Liberals is the decrease and eventual replacement of the rule of law under the Lawfully Amended Constitution of the USA with some form of statism.


You have no idea what you are talking about.

How did you ever obtain your GED?




ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 02:15 pm
@plainoldme,
CORRECTION:
A greater percentage of Republicans than Democrats voted for the 1968 Voting Rights Act

By party
The original House version:[11]
Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%–39%)
Republican Party: 138-34 (80%–20%)

Cloture in the Senate:[12]
Democratic Party: 44-23 (66%–34%)
Republican Party: 27-6 (82%–18%)


The Republicans voted to terminate the filibuster supported by more than a third of the Democrats.

The Senate version:[11]
Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%–31%)
Republican Party: 27-6 (82%–18%)

The Senate version, voted on by the House:[11]
Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%–37%)
Republican Party: 136-35 (80%–20%)
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.12 seconds on 12/29/2025 at 04:41:25