AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

There are so many negatives going for the republicans, I don't know how they will manage to stay a viable party; they're now inciting hatred against Muslims and supporting intolerance for gays, and they don't have many good republicans running for office in most states - who turn out to be more divisive than bringing people together to solver our problems. Their hate message can't be winning the smart people's votes, and the No Party has no credibility of offering solutions to the many problems facing our country.

I believe about 30% of Americans support the GOP without having much smarts; they have no common sense or have learned anything about America or the US Constitution.

How can they survive?

Good points, C.I. It is not just a question of whether the GOP can survive, it is also whether it SHOULD survive. The party seems to be only concerned about taking power, not to offer solutions to the nation's problems. It operates on the basis of bizarre and disproven theories.

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@mysteryman,

Congratulations! They provide a wonderful service to the public.

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good on ya, MM.

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(1)
The Left seeks more government control over people's lives.
The Right seeks more individual control over people's lives.

(2)
The Left seeks more equal distribution of wealth.
The Right seeks more merit distribution of wealth.

(3)
The Left seeks more dependence by the needy on government charity and less dependence on private charity.
The Right seeks less dependence by the needy on government charity and more dependence on private charity.

(4)
The Left rarely specifies what the Left thinks and regularly specifies what the Right thinks.
The Right regularly specifies what the Left thinks and regularly specifies what the Right thinks.

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@ican711nm,

ican, again I think your points are excellent. Where did you get them, or did you compile them and entirely formulate the words yourself?

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@ican711nm,

Quote:

(1) The Left seeks more government control over people's lives.
GWB has Homeland Security to control people's lives.

(3)
The Left seeks more dependence by the needy on government charity and less dependence on private charity.
GWB brought Home Ownership Program with huge leverage and government funding give homeless a dependence mentality. GWB trying to create a welfare mentality on kids with government funding with 'No child left behind'
(4)
The Left rarely specifies what the Left thinks and regularly specifies what the Right thinks. GWB never specified his thinking but attacks the Left.

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@okie,

Okie, I got those four points from my own head. But I don't know specifically how they got there!

However, after posting those points, I began reading a book, previously unknown to me, that an aquaintance subsequently provided me after he read my four points, and my descriptions of Leftists and Rightists:
THE 5000 YEAR LEAP, A MIRACLE That Challenged the World, by W. Cleon Skousen.

I have now read only the first 73 pages of its 311 pages. I am stunned by how much that book, first published in 1981, advocates many of the things you and I have been advocating. I'm amazed about how much more it advocates than I have advocated or even knew enough to advocate. I strongly recommend it to you.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

There are so many negatives going for the republicans, I don't know how they will manage to stay a viable party; they're now inciting hatred against Muslims and supporting intolerance for gays, and they don't have many good republicans running for office in most states - who turn out to be more divisive than bringing people together to solver our problems. Their hate message can't be winning the smart people's votes, and the No Party has no credibility of offering solutions to the many problems facing our country.

I believe about 30% of Americans support the GOP without having much smarts; they have no common sense or have learned anything about America or the US Constitution.

How can they survive?

I've been following most of the polling and, where possible, looking at the internals and methodology. I think it's Independents that are driving the Repubs to lead on the generic ballot and possibly they make up the majority on policy issues like repeal of health care and immigration, etc. Has to be, since there aren't that many Republicans...they're certainly not the majority, although I don't know what the official split is.

There was a poll recently on Rand Paul that showed him to be in a dead heat with his opponent, but looking at the internals, it was weighted heavily towards Democrats and only, I think, 8% of Independents. Those I tend to discount...even though there's a possibility it could be right.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I believe about 30% of Americans support the GOP without having much smarts; they have no common sense or have learned anything about America or the US Constitution.

Here is some data for you, ci, and if I read the data right, it indicates that 23% of Republicans are college grad or higher, while only 15% of Democrats are. Also, only 26% of Democrats earn more than $75,000 as opposed to 43% of Republicans do. So the data indicates that Republicans are typically more educated and end up earning more income, so it is not unreasonable to assume they are smarter and are higher producers and achievers.

A particularly revealing statistic to me is the percentage of Democrats that did not even finish high school, apparently 32%, which I think is pretty dismal when you consider almost a third as being high school dropouts. It would also seem reasonable to assume that a high percentage of those don't even read very well, and so I doubt many of those would be reading the constitution, ci.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f54/average-iq-republican-vs-democrat-voters-860767/

Not HS Grad College Grad & Post-grad
% of Democrats 32% 15%
% of Independents 22% 18%
% of Republicans 19% 23%

Here is the data on people who earn incomes over $75,000 which is also highly correlated to IQ:

Income under $75,000 over $75,000
% of Democrats 74% 26%
% of Independents 72% 28%
% of Republicans 57% 43%

...

"To recapitulate: The Republican average IQ is higher than non-voters and independents and all three are higher than the Democratic average IQ."

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

Thanks ican, I will make a note of that book, THE 5000 YEAR LEAP, A MIRACLE That Challenged the World, by W. Cleon Skousen.

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@okie,

okie, We've already covered that area called smarts and education; they have no meaning in the realm of politics and religion.

Your inability to "see" the real world as it is is the problem you have with most of your observations and opinions. They lack the substance of what we term evidence for what you post on a2k.

Your chart showing educational level by party-line goes nowhere in the real world, because as I have mentioned many times earlier (and you never seem to learn this), nobody votes strictly republican or democrat. Even the republican party, as I posted earlier, denounced the conservative resolution in California.

It has absolutely nothing related to educational levels.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

1.) No, the right seeks more control over people's rights. The anti-abortion movement is a right wing movement.

2.) There is no merit in the right's distribution of wealth. Actually, there is no right wing distribution of wealth. It all goes to the top 1% and that is not a distribution.

3.) The right hates anyone not narrow minded and not physically fit and not born in America. Those people are to be kept out of the economy.

4.) ican's fourth post is so poorly written that there is no way to assign meaning to it.

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@Irishk,

When I was in college (1965-69), most of the students were politically apathetic. The chairman of the sociology department who held a doctorate from Berkeley once said that I was only member of my class she could identify with and I wasn't a sociology major.

It is the seesawing back and forth of the politically apathetic when an issue and the accompanying propaganda/motivation awakens them that causes shifts in the politics of the US.

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@cicerone imposter,

okie's chart was unintelligible.

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@plainoldme,

The way okie uses charts is unintelligible; there's no relationship whatsoever between party income, education, and political results.
It's as meaningless as Hitler's 25 points that he loves to use in his attempts to show Hitler was a socialist. He completely ignores what Hitler actually did while in power.

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@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

1.) No, the right seeks more control over people's rights. The anti-abortion movement is a right wing movement.

Babies are not people?

Quote:

2.) There is no merit in the right's distribution of wealth. Actually, there is no right wing distribution of wealth. It all goes to the top 1% and that is not a distribution.

Under conservatism, wealth goes to those that earned it. There is no stealing from someone that earned it to give to those that did not.

Quote:

3.) The right hates anyone not narrow minded and not physically fit and not born in America. Those people are to be kept out of the economy.

Any evidence for hatred of narrow minded or not physically fit? Not born in America, any proof of that. My dad was not born in America, but I loved the man, and I know lots of people that were not born in America that are not hated. Illegal immigrants, if that is what you are talking about, there is no hatred, but yes, conservatives are opposed to not enforcing existing immigration laws. It is against the law to immigrate illegally.

Quote:

4.) ican's fourth post is so poorly written that there is no way to assign meaning to it.

Perhaps it is a matter of reading comprehension, because I have no trouble at all in interpreting the meaning.

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@cicerone imposter,

Despite his consistent harangue that he considers what people do. Hey, okie thinks I am a nut case because I am an environmentalist and have been since the early 60s. I thought my environmentalism emerged from my interest in science.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

The way okie uses charts is unintelligible; there's no relationship whatsoever between party income, education, and political results.
It's as meaningless as Hitler's 25 points that he loves to use in his attempts to show Hitler was a socialist. He completely ignores what Hitler actually did while in power.

It was you that claimed Republicans were less intelligent than other people. I merely disputed your claim with evidence. Sorry it burst your balloon, ci.

Wrong again, I have not ignored what Hitler did in power, I have in fact talked about it in a considerable way, pointing out his leftist policies and invited anyone to dispute the facts with evidence of their own. So far there has been precious little evidence to the contrary, even though this has been a running battle with many of you on several threads now for months.

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@okie,

Quote:

Babies are not people?

Are mothers people to you? What about fetuses that are so badly formed that they have no chance to live beyond a few hours?

Quote:

Under conservatism, wealth goes to those that earned it

Bullshit. Those white collar criminals steal from hourly workers. Lying bastards all of them.

Quote:

Perhaps it is a matter of reading comprehension, because I have no trouble at all in interpreting the meaning.

I read on the college level as a sixth grader. Rather, it is a problem with honesty, something which you lack.

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@okie,

Quote:

It was you that claimed Republicans were less intelligent than other people

sarah palin. ann coulter. michelle bachman. george w. bush. barbara bush. Shall I continue?

1 Reply

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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