55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 10:18 am
@plainoldme,
I read a book some years ago on the false reports from the admiral who claimed they were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin that started the Vietnam war.

Several years ago when I visited Saigon, I visited the War Remembrance Museum, and they have US military jet planes, tanks, helicopter, and other armaments displayed with many of the pictures we saw during the war - such as the one with the naked girl running away from the bombing. What I also saw were the deformities as the result from Agent Orange that our military used as a defoliant that have affected newborns long after the war. There's a room in that museum with pictures of the war taken by two Japanese photographers that shows the atrocities the US committed against the Vietnamese people.

Most Americans are not aware of the atrocities of war our country has committed against other countries.



okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 10:30 am
@okie,
The Vietnam war, the war the Dems love to hate and try to pin blame onto Repubs like Nixon, was clearly a Democrat war. It was JFK that sent advisors in a significant way, and it was LBJ that radically escalated the war. It was actually Nixon that downscaled our efforts and extracted us from the war there. But even given all of that, I have heard that there is significant evidence of the Vietnamese people loving Americans now, especially those areas that had more contact with American GIs. If anything, this is further evidence that people all over the globe see and value the virtues of freedom, and they tire of tyranny as exists under communist rule.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 10:33 am
@okie,
okie, You're still a one-horse cowboy with no perspective of reality or history. Both democratic and republic presidents are responsible for atrocities committed by the US military.

You're a phuc'g big yawn.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 03:02 pm
I sense a surprising parallel here with the thinking of the ODD (i.e., Obama Democrat Disassemblers)--see boldface. For the ODD reason is irrelevant.
Quote:
Why Did Islam Become Violent?
by Sebastian L. v. Gorka
August 9, 2010 at 5:00 am
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1460/why-did-islam-become-violent

In the weeks following the attacks of September 11th 2001, a dominant theme developed in the American mass media. The question on the cover of weekly news magazines and in the columns of the national dailies was: Why do They Hate Us? -- a response to the deadliest terrorist attack in modern history that has the wrong object, searching as it does for an explanation within US culture and not in the ideology and culture of the enemy that al Qaeda embodies. Robert's R. Reilly latest work, The Closing of the Muslim Mind – How intellectual suicide created the modern Islamist crisis (ISI Books, Wilmington, 2010, pgs 244), finally provides a lucid and comprehensive explanation for that deadly day and its aftermath.

"Ideology" is today a dirty word. However, it merely refers to any
belief system – a science of ideas – that calls for action.

Reilly locates the root of modern Islamic violence in a grand stand-off over a thousand years ago between two ways of seeing the world and its
relationship to God, in a theological difference of opinion that would result
in one side losing the argument disastrously, and in the soul of Islam
changing forever. On the one hand, we find the Mu'tazalites, Islamic thinkers
who appreciated the insights of the Greek philosophers and who were on the
side of seeing Man's reason as valuable in and of itself -- as a tool with
which to understand God more fully. On the other, we had the Ash'arites and
their champion, Imam al-Ghazali. For this elite group of thinkers, reason was
the enemy of Islam, a religion defined by Man's submission to Allah, and
wherein knowledge of the divine can only be had by way of the immutable
revelation that is the uncreated Koran. For the Ash'arites, all was contingent
on the will of God, and reason was inconsequential. All that mattered for them was submission. Unfortunately for Islam, the Arab world and the thousands who died on 9/11 (as well as before and since), the followers of al-Ghazali won, and reason was banished from Islam in favor of un-interpretable revelation.


Today, Osama bin Laden and his ilk can trace themselves and their ideological evolution directly back to these victorious deniers of reason; and with Jihad -- especially in the form of dying while executing a Holy War -- deemed to be the ultimate submission to Allah's will in the spread of his faith and the word of his one true Prophet, Mohammad.

Those who would today decapitate another human being because of the passport he holds, or detonate an explosives-laden vehicle in the heart of downtown Manhattan, are direct descendants of the first extremists who
initiated what Roger Scruton terms in foreword to the book, Islam's "assault
on philosophy." As the DC policy elite digests the Obama administration's
recently released National Security Strategy and other previous policy
prescriptions that call for United States to ameliorate globally the so-called
"up-stream factors" of radicalization, such as poverty and lack of education,
those who understand the power of ideas may look elsewhere for the best ways to make America safe.

Reilly goes far beyond the conventional wisdoms that have driven the debate over national security since that sunny Tuesday morning in New York, Washington and over Pennsylvania. In this book you will not find the
explanations for the killing of thousands of innocent civilians in the "root
causes" of deprivation or lack of education in the Middle East, in the
consequences of Western colonialism, or even in the supposedly
disproportionate US support for Israel and autocratic Arab regimes. Instead,
the author has taken a scalpel to the body of Islamic civilization and
employed a multidisciplinary approach to identify the cancer within the
religion that led to 9/11, Madrid, Bali, and the 7/7 attacks in London.

The remarkable facet of The Closing of the Muslim Mind is that this work of theological archaeology is accomplished while leaving the audience an eminently readable book of just 200 pages. Although not an Arabist or a theologian, Reilly is trained in political philosophy; has an intellectual range, and can wield the written word in ways that are both impressive and even enviable. Perhaps it will not surprise those that take the time to read this priceless work, that the author is not an establishment insider but instead one of a dying breed of renaissance scholars. Perhaps better known for his fine critical work on classical music, Reilly is not a stranger to issues of national security, nor to the question of how to cope with ideologies inimical to Western values and civilization. Formerly on the faculty of National Defense University, after the invasion of Iraq in 2003 he served as the Pentagon's adviser to the Iraqi Ministry of Information; and in a previous post, was the director of Voice of America prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Today we face a deadly foe who challenges our post-modernist way of understanding the world by deploying against us an ideology disguised as a religion. Reilly puts this far more eloquently in his closing chapter, when he describes this thought world as a "spiritual pathology based upon a theological deformation that has produced a dysfunctional culture." Ideology is dead. Long live Religious Ideology.

Along with Patrick Sookhdeo's Global Jihad, this book should be
compulsory reading at all institutions dedicated to preventing another 9/11.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 04:14 pm
@ican711nm,
ican, Is that the opposite of the conservative assemblers who create fear and nonsense from numbers?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 06:23 pm
@mysteryman,
Eisenhower sent the first troops to Vietnam.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 06:24 pm
@okie,
Quote:
LBJ was a conservative you say


Learn to read.

Stop misquoting people.

Go back and look at what I wrote and then figure out what I said.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 06:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Many of our own combatants suffered from Agent Orange.

This is from Wiki:

Agent Orange was by far the most widely used of the so-called "Rainbow Herbicides". Between 1965 and 1970 close to 12,000,000 US gallons (45,000,000 L) of Agent Orange were sprayed in Vietnam, eastern Laos and parts of Cambodia by the US military to defoliate rural/forested land, depriving guerrillas of food and cover, and as part of a general policy of forced draft urbanization by destroying the ability of peasants to support themselves in the countryside.
According to Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 4.8 million Vietnamese people were exposed to Agent Orange, resulting in 400,000 deaths and disabilities, and 500,000 children born with birth defects.

According to Vietnam Red Cross as many as 3 million Vietnamese people have been affected by Agent Orange including at least 150,000 children born with birth defects. The issue of whether or not exposure to dioxin has affected the health of the Vietnamese has been debated since the time of the war when the first animal studies were released showing that TCDD causes cancer and birth defects in rodents. Vietnamese scientists have been conducting epidemiological research on the impact of dioxin to human health since the late 1960s. Studies of veterans who served in the south during the war compared to those who did not have found that those who went south have increased rates of cancer, nerve, digestive, skin and respiratory disorders. Among the cancers veterans from the south had higher rates of throat cancer, acute/chronic leukemia, Hodgkin’s lymphoma and non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, prostate cancer, lung cancer, soft tissue sarcoma and liver cancer. Other than liver cancer, these are the same conditions that the US Veteran’s Administration has found to be associated with exposure to Agent Orange/dioxin and are on the list of conditions eligible for compensation and treatment.[17]
The question of dioxin’s impact on reproductive health and birth outcomes is even more controversial, in part because the research done in Vietnam has not for the most part been peer reviewed or published in scientific journals. Whereas the US Institute of Medicine has found only spina bifida and anencephaly to be associated with paternal exposure to dioxin the Vietnamese researchers have found in studies of both exposed males and females that there is an increased risk of abnormal birth outcomes including infertility, miscarriages, still births, and birth defects compared to those who were not exposed. Among the birth defects, spina bifida, hydrocephaly, malformations of the extremities, musculature issues, developmental disabilities, congenital heart defects and cleft-palate are found. There are also higher rates of children with multiple disabilities among exposed populations. These are many of the same birth defects that the US Veterans Administration allows for compensation for female veterans, though it is due to these birth defects being associated with service in Vietnam and not directly to Agent Orange/dioxin.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 06:35 pm
@okie,
Quote:
The Vietnam war, the war the Dems love to hate and try to pin blame onto Repubs like Nixon, was clearly a Democrat war.


It is hard to believe that you were alive during this time period because your view is so distorted.

The left began protesting the war, to the best of my knowledge, as early as 1964. Take note: the left.

Whoever you think "the Dems" are, no one . . . let me repeat, no one . . . tries "to pin the blame on Repubs like Nixon." Although Nixon as vice president urged Eisenhower to become involved in Vietnam, no one blames Nixon for anything than other than grandstanding with the oft-repeated phrase, "I have a plan to end the war." The use of that phrase allowed Nixon to be elected president twice.

LBJ became a hated figure because of Vietnam. Unless you lived without television, radio, newspapers and news magazines, you knew of people chanting against LBJ and of plays like, "MacBird," as well as songs about the war and the role LBJ played in its propagation, promotion and extension.

Vietnam has become a sad place and its capitol is easily mistaken for Los Angeles or other warm climate AMerican cities.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 07:05 pm
@plainoldme,
pom, I know our own troops were exposed, but that only speaks more badly about our own government for its use. I do not trust our government to do the right thing. When I served in the US Air Force, I worked with nuclear weapons. The US exposed our own troops as "training" and to find out the effects of radiation.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 07:24 pm
@cicerone imposter,
My older son joined the Army. He and his wife dropped out of college and both would love to finish. They would also like to buy a house. My son thought joining the Army would allow them to meet those goals.

I can't help but think that the government has helped wages remain flat for as long as my son has been alive in order to fill the ranks of the military.

I have always hated war and the will to wage war. I was so marked by Vietnam that whenever I see that horrid orangish-red mulch, I think of Vietnam because I think that the effects of Agent Orange were so powerful and so long lasting that country had to be covered with some sort of layering product to hide the still scorched earth.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 08:44 pm
If you didn't watch the Colbert report last Thursday, Steven presented some interesting statistics.

13% of the population of the US is Black.

The Black audience for Fox News accounts for just 1.38% of the viewers. However, 20% of the audiences for MSNBC and CNN are Black.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 08:47 pm
@plainoldme,
It might be that MSNBC and CNN has black reporters and newscasters.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 09:00 pm
@plainoldme,
And 90% of blacks vote for Democrats, which proves what, pom? I think it merely shows not many have decided to leave the Democratic Party plantation and quit drinking the Democrats koolaid, where the owners tell them "we will take care of you if you work for us," that work being "deliver us your votes."
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 10:52 pm
@plainoldme,
There you go again, claiming you were misquoted.
You did say that LBJ was a conservative, and that waging war is a conservative act.

Are you actually going to deny saying it?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 10:53 pm
@okie,
And we're just as sure no conservative is getting any Social Security, SDI, unemployment, and other government benefits.

BTW, how many conservatives will be denying/not getting universal health care?
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 11:59 pm
okie, I'd say it's because they prefer to stay with a party which recognizes their voting power, rather than one which spends its time trying to figure out how to get them to not vote so they can be ignored.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 05:36 am
@cicerone imposter,
I quoted the wiki piece on Agent Orange but did not include the accompanying photos which showed people whose faces and bodies were deformed by the genetic effects of America's chemical warfare. They were too disturbing.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 05:40 am
@cicerone imposter,
Not only is okie a "one-horse cowboy with no perspective of reality or history," but he can not accurately recall and represent events and movements that were part of our lives, your, his and mine.

My kids has lenses mounted in short plastic tubes that refracted images, multiplying and distorting them. okie's eyes, but not just his eyes, his ears and his mind, seems to have such lens filtering what he sees and hears and how he processes what is going on around him.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 05:41 am
@cicerone imposter,
Or, that black people are interested in truth and news and not in distortion!
 

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