AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

Oh good grief, Parados, get serious. Of course government must be involved to an extent to protect us from each other and to prosecute criminal activity. However, there is a big difference between being involved and being over involved, surely you would know that, or perhaps you do not? For example, it is against the law to pay somebody for work with counterfeit money or write them a bad check, but it should not be the government's business to regulate exactly how much somebody is paid to do the work.

Wow! Advice to educate myself from someone who can not tell left from right!

JM, Government meddling is a fact of life - and that's most governments. What exactly are you trying to tell us?

The following statement is taken from this link: http://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/subprime-blame.asp

I find it interesting how liberals love to blame things on "greed," as if greed is illegal or even a bad thing in and of itself. I have pointed out, but I think it is appropriate to point out again that greed is a mindset or thought process, and last I checked, the constitution and our legal system does not outlaw thoughts. It is actions of illegal behavior that are illegal. For example, envy is not illegal, but if it causes a person to steal from somebody they are envious of, stealing is a crime and they should be punished.

We should back up again and point out that first of all, greed is often mis-understood and mis-defined, and often is blamed for things that are caused by other things. A desire to better ourselves with more money might be called greed by some people, while in reality it may be a case of a person just being ambitious and desiring to make their lives better by working harder. So is that a bad thing, I would have to say no. If investors become too greedy and tend to keep investing in something successful too much, sort of like a gambler in Las Vegas trying to extend his luck beyond where it would logically go, an investor could end up losing his shirt, due to greed. But is that a bad thing, I don't think so because it boils down to people and investors needing to learn good judgement. There is no guarantee of good judgement and bad judgement is not against the law just as greed is not against the law.

I doubt if there is a single person on this forum that would turn down an opportunity to invest in something that has little or no risk but has excellent or almost foolproof guarantee of making a good return on their money. And would they consider themselves greedy to make such investments, I doubt it very seriously.

In applying the above thoughts to the housing bubble, I think it was a case of the government setting up a situation whereby making loans and bundling them became a very profitable and safe bet for them to be involved in. And considering the fact that the government mandated the practice of making loans to people and neighborhoods with marginal credit and marginal projections of home value appreciations, so that banks were expected to make such loans, but with the government and Fannie and Freddie providing a safety net for all the banks in the country to supposedly not suffer any consequences of those bad loans, of course banks would continue the practice. With or without greed, it was perceived as a safe and acceptable practice to undertake and to continue. So what has been labeled as greed by some was merely a practice that became viewed as a profitable business practice without much risk involved and therefore worthy of doing to make a buck. What the government rewards, more of it will occur, this is just an age old axiom that will always be true. It is simple human nature with or without greed.

So essentially, at the foundation of this whole housing bust was government policy at fault. If the home loan business had been left alone for private banks to administer based upon the merits and qualifications of borrowers, this whole debacle may have been averted, and then even if it had occurred, it would have been the total responsibility of the banks involved, not the taxpayers to bail the government out and the banks out. Once you inject the government into a free market, then you will reap the consequences of unintended consequences, and that is what happened.

Simply that it (Government meddling ) does not have to be tolerated by the, well, governed (i.e. you and me). Look CI, there are those that believe that government should, essentially, cover all our asses, so to speak, and those that think that this is a road to perdition (like myself) that should be rejected out of hand because that at some point government will abandon you and me in favor of the 'common good'. Forget what I and other conservatives believe. Ask yourself, given the demonstrative actions of the Obama administration combined with that of the Democratically controlled House and Senate, is this a central government that behaves responsibly towards its citizens?

Yes, government 'meddling' can be considered a 'fact o' life' but do those most special of citizens of the world (Americans) have to put up with such partisan positions? I think not. The American revolution of 1776 was against such legislative (or more accurately Parliamentary) excess.

I know many here would dismiss ICAN but I hope no one would deprive themselves of the thoughts of Angelo M. Codevilla . Those who would seriously argue for the American soul should visit this article and read it in its entirety.

JM

Greed IS a bad thing in and of itself. Categorically. It is a vice, not a virtue. It is incompatible with Christianity. It is to be pitied, when found in a person, not applauded.

Not that I'm surprised at your answer at all; because that's what Conservatism is, at it's heart: an exercise in justifying and promoting greed.



The government didn't do ANYTHING to make these MBS's a 'safe bet.' Not one thing. The point that you all seem to be missing here, is that without the Credit Default Swaps, nobody would have bought these damn things! It was only done b/c of the bullshit AIG was pulling with their unregulated and fraudulent insurance products.

I also want to remind you that CRA loans were never the cause of the financial crash in any way and were FAR less likely to default than non-CRA loans, because of the stricter requirements to get them in the first place. You are basically just making **** up here in your last two paragraphs, stuff that has no relation to reality whatsoever.

Cycloptichorn

i wrote, to the consternation of several of the righties, that modern government works through each citizen giving up some 'rights' to society as a whole. That is true. The American right -- through its subsets and lobbying groups and propaganda -- wants to impose its will on the nation as a whole and not to give up what it, the extreme right, sees as its rights, which, of course, run counter to the more modern and far seeing view of rights.

So, we are still arguing over abortion and gun control, issues that should have been put to rest decades ago.

And, unfortunately, the raygun and bush administrations dismantled the mechanisms that mitigated economic ruin created by the Roosevelt administration in the wake of the Great Depression. Thanks to the loosening of controls, those kindergarteners of the American right let loose all sorts of schemes and the result is what may be the Great Depression, The Sequel.

The American right has no self-control and no sense of personal responsibility.

Historians are generally clear that . though he indeed did a great deal to restore public trust and harmony, Franklin Roosevelt's "New Deal" policies accomplished very little in ending the Depression. Indeed the subsequent recession of 1937 was largely a result of his misguided inflation of the gold price (and debasement of the currency) and other actions that added uncertainty over government behavior to an economy badly in deed of stability. It was the massive military recruitment and public spending leading up to WWII that ended that phase of the Great depression.

Statements such as; simply don't mean anything.

The bailouts of government controlled Fanie Mae and Freddie Mac, currently estimated at over $300 billion ($145 billion already given) dwarf those of AIG ($38 billion); GM & GMAC ($29 billion); all FDIC payments for failed banks ($71 billion); and the net cost of the TARP program ($109 billion - current CBO estimate). Ironically, in its new 2000+ page financial regulation Bill, our government hasn't managed to address the problem in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac at all. This doesn't speak well for its self-control and sense of personal responsibility either.

JM, We "tolerate it" by the simple fact that it is "us" who vote in the same reps who does damage to this country - and to Americans. Whether it's democrats or republicans, they have essentially ignored the American public in their politics and votes on issues that are important to its citizens.

They are both guilty; the GOP recently did not vote for money to keep our teachers in our schools. Do you really believe that's the right vote for our children? I believe two conservative members of the Senate voted with the democrats to provide billions for our schools - without which many teachers would be laid off from their jobs.

okie, You really don't have any perspective of history, or how many remember what has happened during the recent history of this country. Your myopia prevents you from "learning" facts about politics or economics.

Link for the following: http://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/subprime-blame.asp

Cicerone imposter, is greed for what others have lawfully earned OK by you?

What a dumb question; most humans have some level of "greed." They wish to live well, and provide for their families. Are you really "that" stupid?

but, but...that guy, in the movie, he said greed was good




was hollywood lying to us?

Lawfully earned? Are you out of your mind? Haven't you heard of white collar crime? Those bastards have guaranteed that the real wages of 80% of Americans remained static for more than 30 years while they . . . the top 20% . . . saw their thievery rewarded. You surely must walk around, bent over double, with your pants around your ankles.

Is greed OF SUCH A MAGNITUDE THAT IT LEADS ONE TO STEAL what others have lawfully earned OK by you?

pay your ******* taxes you tightwad

These guys call themselves American, but they have no idea how our government runs its operations, and who pays for it.

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Does this collection of words have meaning or is this just something random? This is worse than anything my Developmental English students create.