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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 12:43 pm
FROM THE PREAMBLE OF
The Constitution of the United States of America
Effective as of March 4, 1789

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 12:58 pm
@MontereyJack,
"promote the general welfare" DOES NOT MEAN: Take that which some have lawfully earned and give it to those who have not lawfully earned it. Doing that will deny those who have lawfully earned what they have the security of "blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity,"

FROM THE CONSTITUTION OF THE USA:
Preamble
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 01:42 pm
These dictates, did they apply to every one that lived in this newly formed revolutionary colony? These high sounding ideals are not exactly the sound of freedom for all its citizens are they. They sound almost like a prayer for the selected few rather than novel ideology. Get real Americans your declaration is nothing more than club rules for the new elite. Exclusive golf clubs have more inclusive policies than this self righteous declaration. Indians , the original inhabitants, had more rights under british rule , thats why you rebelled you wanted the right to exploit . Republican right wing attitudes have remained the same ever since. The black man never recovered from this insidious refusal to accept them as equals , you still treat them through their historic disadvantages with contempt. When the vast majority of your disadvantaged are black it is apparent your bigoted right wing views are even now directed at them. No white president was ever questioned on his ability to the same degree, Obama has. Lets consider Bush and his avoidance to serve in Vietnam , I notice our propaganda fueled idiots dont remember that do they? This sickening crap I see displayed here makes me even more glad of my own left wing politics.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 03:11 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
all people are created equal, in that they are endowed by God with certain rights


Except for slaves, kidnapped and forcibly brought to the other side of the ocean to work the land.

Quote:
Among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


Has the Texas GOP forgotten this clause? How do they rationalize their anti-oral sex stand?

Quote:
To secure these rights, governments are instituted among people, deriving their just powers from the consent of the people governed.


In other words, everyone gives up license for freedom. In other words, man can not exist without government.

Quote:
That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to secure these rights.


What principles does the American right wing exhibit? Let's see, American conservatives like to think of sarah palin and willard romney as good looking. So, are the looks of a candidate or a philosopher sufficient reason to vote for them or dissolve the government?








plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 03:12 pm
@MontereyJack,
Thanks, Jack, I was just about to draw ican's attention to that part of the Constitution he ignores.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 03:14 pm
@xris,
The cowardliness of your opponents is evident. Your post taking them to task for their limited vision and hypocrisy was voted down and I can assure you that neither Monterey Jack nor I did the voting.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 05:09 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep wrote:

I think POMMIES are wrong

What is a "POMMIE?"
Pepijn Sweep
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 05:15 pm
@okie,
Sorry, men from UK
Pepijn Sweep
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 05:17 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

FROM THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, 2ND PARAGRAPH
WE hold these truths to be self-evident, that all people are created equal, in that they are endowed by God with certain rights. Among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To secure these rights, governments are instituted among people, deriving their just powers from the consent of the people governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to secure these rights. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience has shown that people are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

tea party was about more than tax
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 05:37 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

Quote:
Among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


Has the Texas GOP forgotten this clause? How do they rationalize their anti-oral sex stand?

A weird concept of life, liberty, and happiness! Just when I thought I had read the most bizarre post of all time on this forum, then pom posts another one!
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 05:39 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep wrote:

Sorry, men from UK

Thanks. I have also googled it and found out more.
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 07:19 pm
Any way, working back to Foxfyre's original intent for this thread:
Quote:
As a replacement for the "Bush aftermath" thread which is drawing to a close, perhaps this thread could be a place where we could discuss where conservatives got it right, where we went wrong, what we need to do to regain the confidence of the Conservative base, and other GOP/Conservative issues.

Well, we now see that Republicans have gained in popularity especially with Independents. Indeed, Moe Lane of RedState has an apt description of the mid-term election results for House Democrats, I quote: DOOM!

So, some questions present themselves to us Happy Conservative Warriors Smile .
Will conservatives move the Republican party properly to the right? How to deal with so called Moderates that now form the Republican establishment (Graham, McCain, Castle etc). They cannot be trusted when dealing with the left. It is not enough that they run with an "R" next to their name the last thing this country needs is another Arlen Specter or Bob Bennett.

I for one think Paul Ryan's Roadmap for the American Future ( http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/ ) should be the GOP's blueprint, at least for the 2010 elections. It is not enough to stand by while the Democrats self destruct. We should use Obama's method of convincing the electorate of the soundness of his agenda by constantly educating the public. Conservatives have the advantage here because their solutions not only will work but Obama's new "Hope" agenda is now perceived by a majority of Americans, rightly, as merely tax and spend big government policies in a new wrapper.

Here's some conservative candy to chew on. Should a conservative house deal with a rogue EPA? What else?

JM


okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 07:56 pm
@JamesMorrison,
James, I checked out Ryan's roadmap and found it interesting, however I think there are some kinks in his roadmap that need much more debate and tweaking. For example, I have many questions about his proposals in regard to Medicare, health insurance, and taxes.

I do believe one of the core issues is our taxing system, which if reformed in the best way, could serve as a huge avenue for addressing several issues, including the economy, jobs, government spending and the budget deficits. He talked about corporate taxes and by incorporating a consumption tax, would level the playing field. I agree with that, but I think the only practical and fair way to do that would be to reform the income tax system for everyone, including both corporate and individual. I think we should consider abolishing the income tax system completely and replacing it with a federal sales tax, which could potentially unleash one of the largest economic booms in American history. The reason I believe that is because among other things it would place a level playing field for products bought and sold here in this country without regard for where they are manufactured, and perhaps most of the junk made in China for example could once again be made right here. We would still need to keep a payroll tax in order to collect social security and medicare, but otherwise the vast and wasteful bureaucracy to administer the income tax system could be eliminated.

Other core issues besides our tax system that needs significant reform are our educational system, and our medical industry. The educational system needs to be turned back to local authorities where it belongs. And tort reform is crucial to our medical system, as well as making changes in Medicaid and Medicare, plus making it more attractive and practical for citizens to purchase and manage their own insurance and medical care. The first thing needing done in regard to medical care is to completely repeal and throw out the Obamacare legislation and start over.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 05:21 am
@okie,
Quote:
A weird concept of life, liberty, and happiness! Just when I thought I had read the most bizarre post of all time on this forum, then pom posts another one!


Not weird at all. The fact that Texas Republicans feel they have the right to go into people's bedrooms is beyond the pale, beyond the Constitution and beyond this specious claim that the right likes to keep government out of people's lives.

It is the sort of action that proves that everything about the American right is a tissue of lies.

In addition to boosting your reading skills, you also need to understand symbolism.
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 05:52 am
@plainoldme,
Then we can assume that you are in favor of oral sex?

I knew I liked you for a reason.

plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 06:35 am
@JamesMorrison,
Quote:
Will conservatives move the Republican party properly to the right? How to deal with so called Moderates that now form the Republican establishment (Graham, McCain, Castle etc). They cannot be trusted when dealing with the left. It is not enough that they run with an "R" next to their name the last thing this country needs is another Arlen Specter or Bob Bennett.


AH! A statement of intolerance beyond belief! An anti-life, anti-freedom, bullying profile revealed!
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 09:19 am
MORE EVIDENCE HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST
Quote:

http://www.crusader.net/texts/mk/index.html
http://www.crusader.net/texts/mk/mkv2ch01.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler
Volume Two: The National Socialist Movement
Chapter I: Philosophy and Party
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ON FEBRUARY 24, 1920, the first great public demonstration of our young movement took place. In the Festsaal of the Munich HofbrÀuhaus the twenty-five theses of the new party's program were submitted to a crowd of almost two thousand and every single point was accepted amid jubilant approval.

With this the first guiding principles and directives were issued for a struggle which was to do away with a veritable mass of old traditional conceptions and opinions and with unclear, yes, harmful, aims. Into the rotten and cowardly bourgeois world and into the triumphant march of the Marxist wave of conquest a new power phenomenon was entering, which at the eleventh hour would halt the chariot of doom.

It was self-evident that the new movement could hope to achieve the necessary importance and the required strength for this gigantic struggle only if it succeeded from the very first day in arousing in the hearts of its supporters the holy conviction that with it political life was to be given, not to a new election slogan, but to a new philosophy of fundamental significance.

...
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 09:55 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
These dictates, did they apply to every one that lived in this newly formed revolutionary colony? These high sounding ideals are not exactly the sound of freedom for all its citizens are they. They sound almost like a prayer for the selected few rather than novel ideology. Get real Americans your declaration is nothing more than club rules for the new elite. Exclusive golf clubs have more inclusive policies than this self righteous declaration. Indians , the original inhabitants, had more rights under british rule , thats why you rebelled you wanted the right to exploit . Republican right wing attitudes have remained the same ever since. The black man never recovered from this insidious refusal to accept them as equals , you still treat them through their historic disadvantages with contempt. When the vast majority of your disadvantaged are black it is apparent your bigoted right wing views are even now directed at them. No white president was ever questioned on his ability to the same degree, Obama has. Lets consider Bush and his avoidance to serve in Vietnam , I notice our propaganda fueled idiots dont remember that do they? This sickening crap I see displayed here makes me even more glad of my own left wing politics.

This post of yours, xris, is another demonstration of left wing manufacture of sick misinterpretations of the founding principles of the USA.

The Declaration of Independence was not "dictates." It was a declaration of what the founding fathers thought about how we the people--all of us--ought to govern ourselves. They were Right!

Slavery in the USA was ended 76 years after the Constitution of the USA was established March 4, 1789: It was ended, after tens of thousands of white folks died to end it, and by the adoption, by both white and black skinned folks, of the 13th Amendment, December 6, 1865.

Amendment XIII (1865)
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

That was almost 185 years ago.

Leftists not Rightists are responsible for the subsequent establishment of segregation that was ended over 40 years ago by Rightists--a majority of Republicans and a minority of Democrats.

Currently Leftists continue to subjugate black skinned folks in the USA by continuing to keep them economically dependent on Leftist governmental handouts and lousey schooling.


LEFTISM~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.[/white]RIGHTISM
communism nazism fascism socialism statism democratism conservatism libertarianism anarchism

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<===== more mass murdersless mass murders =====>
~~~~~~~~<===== more wealth transferred by governmentless wealth transferred by government =====>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <===== more corruption of governmentless corruption of government =====>

LEFTISM, WHEN ALLOWED TO PERSIST, LEADS INEVITABLY TO DICTATORSHIP!
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 10:15 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

AH! A statement of intolerance beyond belief! An anti-life, anti-freedom, bullying profile revealed!

Don't ya think ya have things bass-ackwards? It is you and your friends on the left that are anti-life, proven by your policy of killing the unborn in cold blood. What could be more anti-life than that? And who is more anti-freedom and bullying than the Obamaites running the country right now?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 10:19 am
@okie,
Could you build a bigger strawman there okie? Accusing liberals of killing just isn't quite big enough.
 

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