Dumps Like Heavy

No you don't, you just listen. Unless you are asked for advice, don't offer any.

Joe(fight the urge to be solver.)Nation

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Joe- No, it's more than listening. And it's NOT attempting to solve her problems.

When I first met Mr. P. I was young, and a tad ditzy. I was attracted to the fact that he was such a capable problem solver. As I have matured, I too have learned how to work my way out of difficulties.

When I go off the deep end, and revel in my misery, one of the things that I DON'T want from Mr. P. is for him to provide a solution to my problem. I can figure that out for myself, thank you. If I want some advice from him, I will ask.

What I DO want is as you say, for him to listen, but more importantly, to let me know that he CARES that I am feeling wretched, and to communicate to me that he loves me, and all is well.

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I have a hard time imagining Phoenix as ditzy. Other than that, I agree that I don't want solutions when I'm dumping, just an ear. Preferably one that is tuned in rather than tuned out.

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I think what Chumly might be saying is it's a difficult balance to maintain.
From my viewpoint, hearing indepth someone else's stuff involves a certain amount of energy and stress.

I think sometimes women expect too much of their boyfriends, husbands, and female friends. Quite frankly, I do not want to have to hear every rocky detail of my female friends lives, and for whatever reason, women are programmed to gossip and gab and tell all-- mind you, not all women are gossip freaks and have some restraint when it comes to their anxieties.

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That's what guys don't get.

We don't want you to solve our problems. We just want you to listen as we verbally express them.

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Phoenix

http://www.daemonnoire.com/images/shirts/frameditzy.jpg

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i don't think it's just guys.... i'm a problem-solver too. had and ex who dumped everyday - about work, about his health....something was always wrong. well, his dumping was more of a constant stream of whining and it took me forever to figure out he doesn't really need advice, he's just looking for pity or sympathy.... well it ended up leaving me exhausted and angry at times (the dumpers tend to forget to ask "and how was your day?" and if they do, i really don't want to share anything anymore).
I guess there's a thin line between sharing and whining. Sharing certainly is healthy and good, but it has to be mutual, balanced, somewhat constructive.

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What I've learned is our girlfriends are for listening about our problems. Our men are for solving them. Asking a man to listen and not try to solve is like asking him to sit while he takes a leak. They're just not wired that way.

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My wife had, literally, to coach me out of trying to help her when she was merely venting. As I was brought up to help others and, in general, be a fixer, this was a tough lesson for me to learn, even though I understood the general principle the moment she explained it. It took over a year--and, still, after 40 years of marriage, I occasionally slip up and start telling her just how I'd solve the "problem"--or, worse, how I could solve it for her.

All a venting woman wants is an attentive, caring listener. If she actually needs help with a particular problem, she'll ask. If possible, she'd much rather solve it herself.

The other women's self-sufficiency issue I had to be coached on was: "Please do not follow me around the house. Usually, I'm really glad to see you, but there are times every day when I'd just like a quiet room all to myself."

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I know I've talked about it here about 10 gazillion times but it's a concept I've found so useful -- Deborah Tannen summarizes the (usual) differences between female and male communication styles as "rapport talk" vs. "report talk." Women tend to talk to build rapport -- "do you understand? have you felt the same way? are we alike?" Men tend to talk to report -- "this is a problem that needs fixing."

This is a generalization of course and as such there are exceptions. But I've seen that in action soooooooooooooo many times.

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Sozobe,

Good points!

Have you noticed that, when cell-phoners are on the street, even parked on a quiet bench, both sexes are so very often just "reporting in" their present locations and what they're seeing!

This phenomenon tells me that we all do much better communicating in person, whether we are males or females.

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Hi all,

I'm not trying to solve her problems, but in order to empathize in an intimate manner I essentially take on her troubles to some noticeable degree (in perception if not in fact).

I do not see how you could empathize in an intimate manner without essentially taking on said troubles to some noticeable degree (in perception if not in fact).

I am not sure even my wife has the right to vent, if the net result drags me down, even if it makes her feel better, why not just talk to the dog if all that's wanted is an ear....the dog's are much bigger.

I should prolly learn to fake listening better, that way she gets what she wants and I don't have to wonder what planet she's from.

If as some have posted, problem solving is not wanted but a good ear is, then I take that to mean empathy.

Quote:

Empathy is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes", or to in some way experience the outlook or emotions of another being within oneself, a sort of emotional resonance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

That can be, as discussed, burdensome.

Reminds of the tune:

The road is long
With many a winding turn
That leads us to who knows where
Who knows when
But I'm strong
Strong enough to carry him
He ain't heavy, he's my brother

So on we go
His welfare is of my concern
No burden is he to bear
We'll get there
For I know
He would not encumber me
He ain't heavy, he's my brother

If I'm laden at all
I'm laden with sadness
That everyone's heart
Isn't filled with the gladness
Of love for one another

It's a long, long road
From which there is no return
While we're on the way to there
Why not share
And the load
Doesn't weigh me down at all
He ain't heavy, he's my brother

He's my brother
He ain't heavy, he's my brother...

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Quote:

No you don't, you just listen. Unless you are asked for advice, don't offer any.

Joe(fight the urge to be a solver.)Nation

Quote:

Phoenix32890

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe- No, it's more than listening. And it's NOT attempting to solve her problems.

Somebody wasn't reading what I was writing.

Joe( Cool

)Nation

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eoe wrote:

What I've learned is our girlfriends are for listening about our problems. Our men are for solving them. Asking a man to listen and not try to solve is like asking him to sit while he takes a leak. They're just not wired that way.

Exactly.

When Ian starts in with " Can I do something for you?" during my dumping times, I know I have thrown out too much and I am sending mixed signals so I just call it quits and thank him for listening.

Then I call Jane, or Jude and b/s until 1am Smile

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Chumly wrote:

Hi all,

I'm not trying to solve her problems, but in order to empathize in an intimate manner I essentially take on her troubles to some noticeable degree (in perception if not in fact).

I do not see how you could empathize in an intimate manner without essentially taking on said troubles to some noticeable degree (in perception if not in fact).

I am not sure even my wife has the right to vent, if the net result drags me down, even if it makes her feel better, why not just talk to the dog if all that's wanted is an ear....the dog's are much bigger.

I should prolly learn to fake listening better, that way she gets what she wants and I don't have to wonder what planet she's from.

If as some have posted, problem solving is not wanted but a good ear is, then I take that to mean empathy.

Quote:
Empathy is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes", or to in some way experience the outlook or emotions of another being within oneself, a sort of emotional resonance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

That can be, as discussed, burdensome.

Reminds of the tune:

The road is long
With many a winding turn
That leads us to who knows where
Who knows when
But I'm strong
Strong enough to carry him
He ain't heavy, he's my brother

So on we go
His welfare is of my concern
No burden is he to bear
We'll get there
For I know
He would not encumber me
He ain't heavy, he's my brother

If I'm laden at all
I'm laden with sadness
That everyone's heart
Isn't filled with the gladness
Of love for one another

It's a long, long road
From which there is no return
While we're on the way to there
Why not share
And the load
Doesn't weigh me down at all
He ain't heavy, he's my brother

He's my brother
He ain't heavy, he's my brother...

Hmmmmmmmmmm........although, I think one can learn to empathise without then walking away from the conversation still feeling distressed, if one is able to accept that the empathy and attunement is ALL that is needed, and that this is helpful in and of itself.

It's interesting, I don't find that men want the problem fixed, themselves, when they talk to women. Well, sometimes they do, just as we sometimes do, too. They usually seem very happy with the empathy, and get tetchy if one starts to problem solve.

I think one CAN respectfully offer opinions on the problem AFTER the person, male or female, feels they have it completely off their chest, and are completely understood. That's true professionally and privately, in my experience.

A number of men I know are great at the empathy and DON'T leap in with unwanted solutions......

I got caught in the middle of a marital spat about that very issue a few weeks ago!

One of my female friends DOES tend to have the same vents from time to time. Her husband was there last time, and got irritated, pointing out he'd heard the same complaint every December for many years (it's a joint birthday thing witha group of people).

He started to problem solve (quite reasonably, and I used to suggest the same sorts of things, until I learned it was just a vent) and she got really, really angry because he was quite confrontive. We had this same discussion about the purpose of talking being different. I was kind of secretly on his side, cos I'd been hearing the same vent longer than he has!

However, these are small prices for a great friendship. (And marriage.)

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Chumly wrote:

Hi all,

I'm not trying to solve her problems, but in order to empathize in an intimate manner I essentially take on her troubles to some noticeable degree (in perception if not in fact).

I do not see how you could empathize in an intimate manner without essentially taking on said troubles to some noticeable degree (in perception if not in fact).

I am not sure even my wife has the right to vent, if the net result drags me down, even if it makes her feel better, why not just talk to the dog if all that's wanted is an ear....the dog's are much bigger.

I should prolly learn to fake listening better, that way she gets what she wants and I don't have to wonder what planet she's from.

If as some have posted, problem solving is not wanted but a good ear is, then I take that to mean empathy.

Quote:
Empathy is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes", or to in some way experience the outlook or emotions of another being within oneself, a sort of emotional resonance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

That can be, as discussed, burdensome.

Reminds of the tune:

The road is long
With many a winding turn
That leads us to who knows where
Who knows when
But I'm strong
Strong enough to carry him
He ain't heavy, he's my brother

So on we go
His welfare is of my concern
No burden is he to bear
We'll get there
For I know
He would not encumber me
He ain't heavy, he's my brother

If I'm laden at all
I'm laden with sadness
That everyone's heart
Isn't filled with the gladness
Of love for one another

It's a long, long road
From which there is no return
While we're on the way to there
Why not share
And the load
Doesn't weigh me down at all
He ain't heavy, he's my brother

He's my brother
He ain't heavy, he's my brother...

Chumly, I don't know if you saw my post to what you wrote in the beginning-- but I believe I know what you are talking about because I have some of the same issues with women believing they are not only entitled to vent, but to divulge every single warp and woof of their daily lives--

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I did and thank you. In fact, thanks to all for the interesting responses!

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I think I'm probably a guy..... either that, or i don't buy this whole male-female division. i think most of my female friends tend to be, like me, problem solvers- that's why we're friends i guess. i don't enjoy long venting chats if they are not aimed at constructive resolution. i'm pretty much an introvert. and i guess growing up with family therapist i was brought up that way - to problem solve. and maybe it's partially also a cultural thing, though we do have the same stereotypes about women. dunno, i guess i just don't see it divided like that around me, not in the U.S. either. especially since i have a few male friends who DO love to share and vent (if A. calls, i only pick up if i'm 'ready' for the conversation, and usually i'm not, so i call back when i am...) and most of my female friends do not.

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dagmaraka wrote:

...if A. calls, i only pick up if i'm 'ready' for the conversation, and usually i'm not, so i call back when i am...

The miracle of the modern answering machine!

0 Replies

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